Transcript for Sharing Our Grief
SPEAKER_00
00:00 - 00:05
This podcast is supported by Evernorth Health Services.
SPEAKER_02
00:05 - 00:13
Dying Anderson My mom wrote and recorded this message to me four years before she died.
SPEAKER_03
00:13 - 01:14
In every life you have moments of blinding beauty and happiness. And then you're lined in a dark cave and there is no color, no sky. Then the rainbow returns. Sometimes only briefly. We are not meant always to be happy, and who would want to be. Happiness would become meaningless if it were a constant state. If you accept that, and will not be surprised when something bad occurs, you are not nastured teeth and ask, while I may, why has this happened to me? It has happened to you because that is the nature of things, no one escapes. Nothing is meant to last forever. We are told the fable ends for the part of gold at the end of the rainbow. But does it? I have no answer. Except to say, I know the rainbow comes and goes. And really, isn't that enough? You're a during mom.
SPEAKER_02
01:16 - 03:41
I really miss hearing her voice. And it's funny because all the things that used to frustrate or stress me out about her, that's all gone. Hearing her voice now, I just hear her almost childlike enthusiasm, her optimism and her humor. And most of all, I hear the love that she had for me and the trust that she had in me. I mentioned recently that I've felt stuck in my grief, but listening to my mom, I realize now for the first time that the grief I feel for her is very different than the grief I feel over my dad and brother's deaths and my nanny may. I had a lifetime with my mom. She died at 95, and while I miss her, I don't feel robbed. There's no horror or rage at her passing. It is, I see very clearly right now, the grief of an adult. And I see very clearly how the grief I feel over my brother and father and me is the grief of child feels. A mix of horror and heartbreak, fear and rage. Maybe I have made some progress after all, whatever progress means. At least now, I can allow myself to look at the many layers of my grief and feel them long enough to analyze their dimensions and origin. It's no longer just one huge, ever-expanding black hole of oblivion that I'm running from. And I have many of you who are listening to thank for that. I've been playing your voicemails this past week. I've received more than 2,200 of them so far. And the number, 1, 9, 1, 7, 7, 2, 7, 6, 8, 1, 8 will be working for several more weeks if you want to call. Hearing your voices and your stories, the names of your loved ones, I couldn't stop crying. While I normally try to shut that down pretty quickly, I didn't this past week, and I'm glad. In this episode, I'm gonna play some of your calls. I want you to hear what I heard in your messages, because it's so confirmed to me that I, you, none of us, is alone in our sadness and in our struggles. And I know it feels like we are. I've felt alone for so long, but what Francis Weller said in the first episode of the season is really true.
SPEAKER_01
03:41 - 04:09
Grief, when we're really in it, we are in the commons of the soul. At any time you walked on the street, any pair of eyes you look into, they won't hold lost. No one's been excluded from that club. One of the most, if not the most common human experience, is one of lost. But when you're in a grief phobic culture, that language, those comments don't get to be visited.
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04:09 - 04:13
For the next half hour or so, I want you to visit the comments of the soul with me.
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04:16 - 04:23
My name is Mary Lahi Kenan. I'm calling because I want you to know my son's name.
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04:23 - 04:28
Ian? Sir? Ian? I like the gender.
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04:28 - 05:02
Lahi Kenan? Is my only child? Is 25 and diagnosed with brain cancer? They were, it was Cleoplastoma. We were told from the beginning that it would take his life. It felt it went on for a number of years, but he was left with daily seizures. His longtime girlfriends asked too much for her. He planned to marry her. It was just the three of us non-dad and Ian. The time was full of love and laughter, but also terrifying MRIs to see us be other shoes as they put it. Finally dropped.
05:02 - 05:06
October of 2019, they offered to try to just keep them alive.
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05:06 - 05:26
No more talk of a cure. This meant constantly at the hospital. Ian wanted to stop. I couldn't want to lose him. I talked to them for three weeks. And finally, on Halloween, I asked him to tell me what he really wanted. I want to stay home, Mom. I want to live, not to survive, he said.
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05:26 - 05:29
Even if you know what can happen, I asked, yes, he said.
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05:29 - 05:38
He said, okay, I'll tell everyone to stop crawling. No more appointments, no land, no MRIs. My heart was breaking.
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05:38 - 06:09
He looked at me with a huge knife. Well, Mom, I'm so happy. On February 29, 2020, I held the end of my arms. And he could feel his heart pounding in my chest. I said, it's already, and I got you. I love you. And it felt his heart stopped. I was the first to hold the end when he was born, and I was the last. Three has deceased mild, and told me I was his best friend. What it gets that was. After all this life, we were goofy pals.
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06:10 - 06:14
You knew that he was my favorite human.
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06:14 - 06:18
I can't offer much because I'm too lost about him.
SPEAKER_02
06:18 - 06:33
Mary, I've listened to your message dozens of times. And I've said your son's name, Ian Alexander, Lahikainen, allowed into the universe over and over. And I hope people listening will say his name out loud as well.
SPEAKER_08
06:33 - 07:25
My name is Linda, my dear friend, New exactly. what to say when I called her to tell her our son Matthew had died by suicide at age 24. She said, I will say his name and I will remember and talk about Matthew forever to everyone I know. The worst thing that could ever have happened to us are only child with God. We feared he would be forgotten. My friends let me know with those sweet words that Matthew would continue to be talked about and remembered beyond our memories of him. It was the most beautiful, generous gift, and I will never forget her perfect words.
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07:25 - 07:34
Many of you who call spoke about that feeling, being lost, the pain of it, and many of you have learned that talking about it is the only way through.
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07:34 - 08:18
My name is Sarah. I live just a set of Chicago. My husband and I lost our first baby at about six months, so six months pregnant. One of the things that I have come to understand is that my grief is useful to other people who are in grief. And their grief is useful to me, sort of like driving in a white-out snowstorm if you see that there are headlights. In front of you, it helps you feel like there's a path that you are on and there is space to move forward.
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08:18 - 08:25
I love that description of headlights and a blizzard that help you feel that you're not alone and that there is a path ahead.
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08:25 - 09:54
Hi, Anderson. I lost My second child from your back who were really rare genetic conditions and it was completely devastating as you can imagine. He was an infant and I was able to test for it with subsequent children and lost two other pregnancies and also had two more living children after that. So I have three living children right now and I learned a lot from it. I absolutely believe that he was meant to be here. I was meant to be his mother. There's so much love around that. And I'm so glad that I was, you know, able to hold him as he guide. I think that being a witness to the death of someone that you love is, it's amazing, it's an honor. But he's not something that's a taboo subject if he comes up in conversation. I'm talking to somebody if they ask how many kids I have and it feels appropriate. I mentioned it. I feel like making the loss of a loved one where you don't talk about the person. I actually think that that can make living with it more difficult and I feel grateful that my son Jordan has been incorporated into our family as just part of our lives. He was my kids brother. He was my husband's child.
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09:54 - 10:02
So many of you called in to emphasize the importance of talking and also to mention specific things that people have said to you that it had been helpful.
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10:02 - 12:02
My name is Sarah and my first daughter Clara was born and died unexpectedly at birth on December 28th of 2015. So I have another daughter as well and so People ask, how many children you have is just your only one. And I make a decision right than in their whether or not I'm going to share about Clara. And often I do because she is part of our family. And while I'm often met with silence, his though the person who asked that question didn't even hear me when I say, well, actually I have two, but my first standard. Even though I am often met with that reaction, I continue to share because one of the things that I have found is that the more I share, the more people open up to me and they tell me their stories. There's a lot of connection that can be made and I have met some of the kindest people through my sharing and that has helped me and I hopefully helps others Hi, my name is Mariana Yamati and I just wanted to share one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me in my grief. My father passed away in 2017, my mother passed away in 2018 and I'd be friends with a small group of older women and one day I just started weeping and one of the older women gently asked me, what was she like? What was your mother like? To be honest, I didn't even know how to answer that. I had realized that all the questions that I've been asked in the last two years with my parents passing were, what happened to them? When did they die? How did they die? And here this woman was asking me about my mom as a person. And so every time that I find out that someone's lost them when I really tried to ask them something personal, like, what was their name? What was your favorite memory?
SPEAKER_02
12:03 - 12:07
Mariana, I've taken that advice and I've seen the difference that it makes.
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12:07 - 13:17
My name is Grace and Williams Krebs. My mom died at a young age and I feel like when people found out this fact, it was like mental notes. Never bring up moms in front of Grace in. It was isolating and it was uncomfortable. I realized that not talking about my mom was not only keeping me from telling other people about the life she lived, but also to not talk about my mom. It's to not recognize my strength and who I am today. So I wanted to change this. I started bringing cute cakes her favorite dessert to work on her birthday. I had two loves around the house more her favorite flowers. And I started wearing her clothes more and telling me like a badge of honor these are hers. Then that's some things changed. On the anniversary of her passing, we need to have a better word for that day. What are we calling up these days? My friend Ferdsen and me two loves. At restaurants, they'd ordered cheese cake and then I was able to tell them stories about my mom. It's like I gave them this invitation to talk about her and then in doing so, I didn't have to carry the weight of grief alone. I got to share it with friends. And grief weirdly turned into this really beautiful thing. Grief does not have to be scary when we can do it together.
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13:17 - 13:19
We'll be right back with more of your calls.
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13:22 - 14:58
Greath is a human experience and the care we receive should be too. Evernorth behavioral health ensures all members have access to live specialized support in-person or virtually with a 100% follow-up commitment to make sure they get the help they need. There's always a person there, guiding your employees using data-driven risk monitoring tools so bottled up feelings don't turn into further suffering. With Evernorth's wide range of behavioral solutions, care can be personalized, simple and more accessible. Learn more at EverNorth.com slash grief support. All there is with Anderson Cooper is supported by EverNorth Health Services. Grief is a human experience. Shouldn't the care we receive feel human too? That's why EverNorth Behavioral Health ensures all members have access to live, specialized support any time, in person or virtually, with a 100% follow-up commitment to make sure that they get the help that they need. So no matter what stage of grief your employees may be in, there's always a person ready to listen. Stressful times can lead many to bottle-up complex feelings, especially at work. 59% of those suffering say nothing. This can have unexpected and serious mental and physical health implications. And with Evernorth's data-driven risk monitoring tools, they can help spot challenges early and step in to guide individuals to care before they undergo any more suffering. Each person's grief is as unique as they are, which is why Evernorth offers a wide range of personalized behavioral solutions to meet the needs of every member that they serve. Learn more at Evernorth.com slash grief support.
SPEAKER_02
14:58 - 15:08
Welcome back. There are so many different kinds of grief and so many layers to it. Sally received a cancer diagnosis that changed her life forever.
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15:08 - 15:11
My name is Sally Wolf. I live in Manhattan.
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15:11 - 16:45
I am 47. And for the past four and a half years, it has been a stage four in terrible breast cancer. And one of the things that I focused on a lot is the loss of The image I had of my future selves, which is just as important to grieve as the loss of loved ones. And at the same time, find the strength to see what gift that loss may coexist besides. So for example, I was considering becoming a mother on my own, which was a lifelong dream of mine to have And I put a hold on that plan, possibly forever, on the heels of three consecutive cancer diagnoses. And yet, at the same time, I am an auntie to free amazing little humans who are almost nine, almost seven, and almost five. And I honestly never knew it could be this magical to be an auntie. So while I grieve the loss of motherhood as I envisioned it, I also welcomed the gift that I have found in the incredible relationships I have with my nephew and he says.
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16:45 - 16:49
So many of you are grieving as a result of cancer.
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16:49 - 17:23
Hi, my name is Kristen. My son's a brain cancer survivor. And there's the child that he was going to be when he was born. And then the thing happened to him and it forever altered him. He was two and a half when he was diagnosed. And then he was three and a half when he relapsed. But in the 30 sessions of radiation takes a toll on the brain and it altered him and he'll be forever altered from it.
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17:24 - 17:32
And there's the grief of who he was going to be before that happened.
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17:32 - 17:40
Well often we think of grief as sadness for the passing of someone we loved and will miss. There can be so many dimensions to it.
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17:40 - 18:21
I have never said anything like this before but my dad was extremely emotionally abusive to me pretty much every day of my life and there were times I hoped for him to be dead because I knew I deserved to be free, but he was also a very beloved and well-respected doctor in our small community. And when he died, there were hundreds of people at his funeral coming up to me, my mom, my sister, telling us what a wonderful person he was. So there's a difficulty in all the complexity that wrapped up in morning someone who you also need to be free from.
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18:22 - 18:27
Lisa called in about the death of her father, who was in alcoholic.
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18:27 - 19:41
It is perfectly okay to love them, to honor and be grateful for the good things they brought into your life. And the key part for me that I have never heard from anyone in 36 years is acknowledge that your life is easier without them in it. I love my father and my life is easier without him in it. It's been three to three years since he passed and I've never heard anyone say that and it's been my truth all along and I hope that it's helpful for someone. My name is Sarah and I'm from Arkansas. I lost my dad to long cancer in 2006. I was 32. He was a musician and an artist. He was an alcoholic and I grieved him little by little in my life. I'd miss him because he'd be playing a gig more unfortunately on a bender at a bar. We got closer closer to his death when I was 32. And he always told me, Sarah, you have so much moxie. I'm now almost 50 this July and my husband Patrick and I have a daughter.
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19:41 - 20:13
Her name is Moxie because It is the memory I have of what he was endearingly called me, and he would have loved Moxie. There's so much alike. There were witnesses, humor, their love of music, and she has ten years old. All these years later, there's still a little bit of grief, but I see so much of him in Moxie, so it is a constant reminder of the good things.
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20:14 - 20:33
And Sarah, I'm so glad that you and your dad were able to get closer toward the end of his life. And I love the name Moxie. One of the things we've talked about over the last two seasons or anniversary in birthdays and how hard they can be, these next few listeners have found ways to celebrate their loved ones and feel less alone in their sadness.
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20:33 - 21:09
My brother's death day is in about a week. And one thing that I do is my celebrate the day instead of Um, acknowledging the pain of it solely because I know I'm going to have those feelings. He loves thrills. He loves, um, roller coasters and then he's at parkside. I go to roller coaster parks and I ride roller coasters and, um, it helps me. It's cathartic to scream on roller coasters and instead of a looming sad day on a calendar, I have a fun day to me as a park next with, with, free, which is sort of like, existence.
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21:11 - 21:55
My dad passed away over 25 years ago, and it was such an ache, such a void. The man loved a good parking place. He loved he kind of stopped flying. It just seemed like my dad was the patron saint of parking, and we called him that. And after he passed away, he said, during this thing, it was such a heartache and void. But over the years, every time we get a good parking place, we all say, thanks, Dad. And it really is we have a giggle. It's a real source of remembering in a moment of of is being back in our lives. And what started as a ache has ended up becoming a family sort of ongoing love and in humor.
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21:55 - 21:58
Love that the patron saint of parking.
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21:58 - 23:24
My name is Reverend Rachel Hollander. I have an area in my house that started out as what I called the guardian wall. which is I put pictures up of those who I've left and I let them keep an eye on me. And so now there's like a shelf of tokens and souvenirs and items and then all the photographs of everyone. And included in those souvenirs and tokens and items are part of my life that have fallen away. And it helps me feel loved and it Reminds me that I'm never alone that they are always just a breath away. And don't tell anybody, but sometimes I do talk to them and they talk back. I talk to my mom when I was driving. We always lived for a part from each other and so when I would hop in the car, I would give for her call. It was hard when she died because I didn't have to talk in the car anymore. But the other day, I was driving and it just suddenly occurred to me to talk to her anyway.
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23:24 - 23:32
So that's what I did. It isn't. I've got to leave a couple of times now.
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23:35 - 24:06
feels great. That huge empty hole, where I used the talk to her. Now I feel the given with conversations about things that are happening in my life, things like that, and make sounds silly to just be talking to the air, but it's really help, which probably can't tell if something's going to hurt me. But it really has.
SPEAKER_02
24:06 - 24:30
Well, these past few months, I've found myself talking to my dad and brother and me. And yeah, while it sounds silly to some, it doesn't sound silly to me. And yeah, it does help. It's hard for anyone who's grief isn't recognized. And I've heard from a number of you who've lost beloved animals. And it's not just that the pain of the loss that you spoke of, but the way it's been treated by some people around you.
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24:31 - 24:40
I understand, I'm snuggling with my sweet dogs tonight knowing that tomorrow I'm gonna have to say goodbye.
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24:40 - 25:17
He's been my only constant since I was 25 years old. He keeps filming grow up. I just know that there's never going to be kind of love like this ever again. I just want to let other people know who we're going through. It's a lot of love and animals. It's okay. It's okay to grieve.
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25:17 - 25:20
Don't worry what other people think animals are.
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25:20 - 25:36
We only think capable of unconditional love and I'm going to try so hard just to Remember all the lessons that I sweetly girls taught me.
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25:36 - 26:13
For many people, the loss of a pet is the loneliness kind of grief. They're the witnesses to our lives. Sometimes the only witness, they're the reason to come home. They can be the only tether to the world for some people. And they represent the end of an era of our lives. So the grief can be incredibly lonely and isolating as it's rarely taken as seriously as human loss. So what I've learned is to seek out others who understand the depth of that loss and don't worry about those who don't because your grief is real. And as legitimate as any other grief, rest in peace, mild.
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26:13 - 26:25
I still haven't made much progress the last several weeks going through any of the boxes of things belonging to my mom and dad and brother. They're still in my basement just waiting. Shannon left this message about it.
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26:25 - 26:28
When we are holding on to these things like
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26:30 - 26:37
Anderson has been doing with his long things and how my mom's partners children are with his belongings like babies.
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26:37 - 26:59
That's not them. And when we wait ourselves down with these things, that we slow the transformation process. And we can't become where we are meant to become without that person. Because I don't believe that we are meant to be with our beloved
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27:00 - 27:03
every minute of our lifetime.
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27:03 - 27:29
I find that notion of grief as a process of transformation really interesting, becoming who were meant to become without the loved one who's died. And the idea that we're not meant to be with our beloveds all our life. I don't know, maybe it sounds obvious to you, but I keep thinking about it, and I find it comforting in a way. With grief, so much changes over time, and I want you to hear from some listeners who are at different places in their grief.
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27:31 - 28:34
My name is Aaron and I'm from Michigan. My parents died in March of 2021. My mom had dementia and my dad was overwhelmed with fear and pain in watching her decline. My dad took my mom's life and then took his own. I didn't know how to even begin to understand what had happened until overwhelmed with grief. I received him advice from a friend who had recently lost her husband She told me to simply begin by choosing the next thing that I could do. Small things, like getting a drink of water, are making something to eat, are going for a walk. In the initial days of grief, I found this advice to be a helpful way to help me move through a day that I didn't even know how to get through. Now, over a year and a half later, there are still moments when I just need to decide what's the next thing that I can do. to take care of myself.
SPEAKER_04
28:34 - 29:35
My name is Casey. I lost my brother Ron on September 9th, 2020. He was driving his motorcycle to work and a woman was not paying attention and shook and killed him. You learn quickly that although your world has stopped, the real world keeps going And somehow now we are entering our almost fourth year without him. And things change. You figure out how to carry it differently. It's not always right in front of your face. It's kind of tucked away and blow up and you're able to peek into it and see if it's something you can do with today or not. But then did driving and someone runs a red light light in front of you and you think my brother didn't get that lucky.
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29:35 - 30:29
My name is Christina and I lost my wonderful husband Eric two years and seven months ago to suicide. Leaving my husband to suicide was the second most painful thing I've ever been through. The first most painful thing I've ever been through is watching my then eight year old and five year old breathe their father. Walking your children through pain and grief and sadness is basically human torture. But I would really encourage anybody out there that is going through something similar to give yourself space to grieve to allow your children to openly grieve to keep their memory alive every day in your household. keep the memory alive for your children in your heart and in their heart.
SPEAKER_02
30:29 - 30:42
I think this is so important and I say this is someone who did not openly grieve as a child or for most of my life. My brother and I never spoke about my dad after his death. It was just too painful.
SPEAKER_08
30:42 - 31:30
My husband passed away several years ago after 13 year battles with cancer. I have two boys in the 13 years For the whole of their childhood, we were 16 and 18 when they're that bad. We could have retreated to our separate corners as we grieve and rage over all that we have no control. But this oblique experience is actually the thing that pulled us together. My boys and I were able to forge a non-sacable relationship that laid the foundation for us to remain connected. So it is the bond with my boys formed in the midst of trauma and heartache that I am most deeply grateful for.
SPEAKER_02
31:30 - 31:41
Gail, I'm so glad you were able to do that. My brother and I did retreat into our separate corners, and we never emerged from them. It's one of the biggest regrets in my life.
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31:41 - 32:24
My name is Kristen Paine. It has been Ed died nine years ago coming up on this night anniversary. The single most helpful thing for me and for my son who's now 15 and was six when he died. He's talking about him and talking about the death and his illness before he died to my son and then talking about him all the time. And there's a poem, I don't know if it's really a poem, but it's a statement that was given to me a month or two after my husband died and it is just beautiful. Death is nothing at all. I've only slipped away into the next room.
SPEAKER_02
32:24 - 35:25
When I heard Kristen start to read this, I began weeping. It triggered a memory. I had long buried. It was July 1988, a day or two after my brother suicide. Someone handed me a Xerox copy of this poem on a slip of paper. I still have it, pressed between the pages of an old journal that completely forgotten about. These words may not be new to you, but they were to me back then. And they helped me get through those first terrible days after my brother died. Death is nothing at all. I've only slipped away to the next room. I am I, and you are you. Whatever we were to each other, that we still are. Call me by my old familiar name. Speak to me in the easy way, which you always used. Put no difference into your tone, where no forced air of solemnity or sorrow. Laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes we enjoyed together. Play, smile, think of me. Pray for me. Let my name be ever the household word that it always was. Let it be spoken without effect, without the trace of a shadow on it. Life means all that it ever meant. It is the same that it ever was. There is absolute unbroken continuity. Why should I be out of mind because I am out of sight? I am, but waiting for you for an interval, somewhere, very near, just around the corner. All as well. So that's all there is for now. There'll be more episodes down the road. If you'd like to leave a voicemail, feel free. I still have a lot of your calls to listen to and I will, but I'm happy to hear more. The number is 917-727-6818. That's 917-727-6818. It'll be open for another two weeks or so. I hope these podcasts have been and continue to be of some help. Wherever you are in the world and in your grief, I hope you know you're not alone. Take care. All there is is a production of Sinan Audio, the show is produced by Grace Walker and Dan Bloom. Our senior producers are Hailey Thomas and Felicia Patinken. Dan DeZoula is our technical director and Steve Lickty is the Executive Producer of Sinan Audio. Support from Charlie Moore, Kerry Rubin, Shimmeridge Sheetree, Ronnie Betis, Alex Manaceri, Robert Mathers, John D'Anora, Lini Steinhard, James Andreys, Nicole Pessaru, and Lisa Namrow. Special thanks to Katie Hinman.