Transcript for Jesus’ Surprising Warning About Religious Practices
SPEAKER_06
00:00 - 00:51
Hey, this is John at Bible Project. This year we've been exploring the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. We're currently taking questions for our third question and response episode in this series. We'll be looking at questions from episode 15, which is the I for I passage, all the way up until the Lord's prayer begins. So send us your questions by May 20th and send it to info at BibleProject.com. Let us know your name, where you're from, and try to keep your question to about 20 seconds or so. And if you can transcribe it, when you email it in, that's a real big help for our team. We look forward to hearing from you. Now, here's the episode. This is Bible Project Podcast, and this year, we're reading through the sermon on the Mount. I'm John Collins, and with me is co-host Michelle Jones, I'm Michelle.
SPEAKER_02
00:52 - 01:03
Hi, John. In the sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his followers to live by a greater righteousness. That's a phrase he uses to talk about a way of living that creates right relationships with everyone.
SPEAKER_06
01:03 - 01:15
Now in this section, Jesus turns his attention to religious practices of his day. Tabits that allow us to live in right relationship with God and neighbor. Jesus brings up generosity to the poor, prayer, and fasting.
SPEAKER_02
01:16 - 01:34
These are good practices that followers of Jesus have done throughout the ages, but Jesus gives us a surprising warning about them. Be careful, He says, because if you do religious practices to get praise from people, then you're missing the plot. In fact, you're missing the party altogether.
SPEAKER_06
01:34 - 01:39
He calls this way of life being a hypocrite, which for Jesus means doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
SPEAKER_02
01:40 - 01:54
Today, you and Tim are going to talk through these three religious practices and reflect on one somber warning of Jesus. Be careful that your religious devotion to God doesn't become a way to elevate yourself.
SPEAKER_06
01:54 - 01:55
Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_02
01:55 - 01:55
Here we go.
SPEAKER_06
02:10 - 02:43
So we're looking at the sermon on the Mount and we are in chapter six of Matthew, just kind of right in the center of the sermon on the Mount. Jesus is talking about a greater righteousness. There's a right way to have relationships with other people and with God. In this section, you framed it up as these are ways that we relate to God that involves how we treat others, but the focus is on the audience's God. The audience is God. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
02:43 - 03:05
But even these three case studies in chapter six of ways that you do write by God, they're also like the standard bread and butter of first century, just Jewish religious devotion. Ways that you practice out your devotion to God. He's being real practical here. He's using day to day life examples from day to day religious life in his community.
SPEAKER_06
03:05 - 03:58
Last episode we talked about his thesis, which is be careful. because if you're doing these things that show your devotion to God, but you're doing it in order to be seen by other people and kind of be honored by those people who see you and be like, oh, look at, look at Tim. He's doing a great job with that. How he prays and gives the poor. Then Jesus, like if that's why you're doing it, well, great. You got your reward. They think you're cool. Yeah. Yeah. But you'll be missing the honor, the reward from the person you should really care about. Yeah. So be careful. You'd almost think that like, both things could happen. I could go and be generous. And then people were like, wow, John's really generous. And then God would also be like, yeah, John's really generous. Why can't it be both?
SPEAKER_05
03:58 - 05:14
Yeah. And it certainly can be. Yeah, totally. But it can quickly get distorted, which is why he's as be careful. Be careful. I mean, this is why certain aspects of like Paul's letters were, he'll say, emulate me as I emulate Christ. And it's clear the way he worked out, you know, his apprentice model when he planted a church, which he was teaching them a new way of life. So, hey, here's how a follower of Jesus lives in the world, follow me as I'm following Christ. And so, it's not bad that other people would see you trying to be faithful to Jesus and be like, wow, that's, I want to be that way too. He's just saying, be careful, man, because very quickly that your motives can get twisted. and out of whack, and all of a sudden you're doing the right thing for the wrong reason, which is his definition of what it means to be a hypocrite. You know, I was just thinking about this. This idea of doing the right thing for the right reason. So we have to imagine ourselves into a Greek and Roman setting. It's an honor-shame culture, which means that you're standing in the community, your reputation, your name, and your status and the honor of your name and accomplishments. That's the only game in town and everybody's playing it.
SPEAKER_06
05:14 - 05:25
And that's not the game anymore. There's more games. You can just accumulate wealth and power and who cares what people think of you. You can just kind of live your own life, your own journey.
SPEAKER_05
05:25 - 05:31
Yeah, just be true to yourself and who cares what anyone else thinks about you.
SPEAKER_06
05:31 - 05:37
And you can actually get pretty far in our culture. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Those games totally. But not back then. No, you could it. Right.
SPEAKER_05
05:37 - 05:55
Like you dead end. The only game in town to get ahead is to do things that will be publicly visible that will gain you honor and recognition so that you can do more of those things and generate value and hopefully well than having a statement.
SPEAKER_06
05:55 - 06:03
And that's still a really great game nowadays. Totally. But press the right people with the power. That's right. And then get a seat at their table. Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
06:03 - 08:03
Yeah, it's human nature. That's a good way of saying it. There are also, there's more games in modern Western culture. Yeah. And then just as dead, that's the game. And so this idea, these introducing that you could do the right things in public. that would gain you public honor. But actually, you have no real honor before God. Let the reconfiguration that you could do the right thing for the wrong reason. And in reality, you have no honor. That was a dishonorable thing to do. So we've been talking big picture about this. These three examples I think will give us more concrete things to work with here. So yeah, he has three examples of how to do right by God. The first one is by being generous to people who are in need. Okay. The second one is about prayer and the third one is about fasting. And each one presents unique challenges that puts your honor and danger if you do the right thing for the wrong reasons. So this Matthew six versus two through four, I'll just read it real quick. He says, so them, when you do act of generous giving to those in need, don't signal it with a trumpet in front of you, like the hypocrites do in gathering places in alleyways, so that were for the purpose of being honored by others. I tell you the truth, they have fully received their reward. But y'all, addressing his disciples on the hillside to there, y'all, when you do your acts of generous giving to those in need, don't even let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your generous giving is done in private. And your father, he sees what's done in private, and he will fully reward you.
SPEAKER_06
08:04 - 08:10
Did people really blow a trumpet as they gave money to the poor? No. Okay. No, it's, yeah.
SPEAKER_05
08:10 - 08:28
He's being hypermoded. Yeah, he's for sure, winking here. However, really the most common practice associated with his kind of trumpeting was on Friday evenings when Chivot or Sabbath was about to begin. There would be horns blown throughout the city and people would often go into neighborhood with little trumpets and so on.
SPEAKER_06
08:28 - 08:29
So there were horns around.
SPEAKER_05
08:30 - 08:35
Yeah. The point is that making public announcements with horns, it's a thing. It's a thing. It's a thing.
SPEAKER_06
08:35 - 08:40
People didn't go around doing that for their generous acts.
SPEAKER_05
08:40 - 14:13
At least as I've read in the commentaries and there's no scholars that know that this was like a thing. Yeah. So he's turning up the volume on the sarcasm. Totally here. However, generous acts toward the needy. I mean, this is standard fair in Jewish culture is realite culture. In a way, it's not that other cultures You know, didn't have generosity as a value. But the way and the reasons why it was significant in Jewish culture was unique stood out. So this is cool and just because I don't think we've ever talked about this before. So giving to the poor, the Greek word Jesus uses here is a, a, a, a Muslimen. It comes from the Greek word, uh, a Leo, which means to show mercy or to show concern or compassion. but specifically to show mercy or concern with concrete acts of generosity and kindness. And so it became the word for generosity to people in need. So the question is, in this category, you have fasting prayer, those are directed to God, like you don't do it primarily for other people to say, you do it for God to say. And so that makes this first example stick out for, well, who's the audience? Is this a way of doing right by God or doing right by other people? Or maybe those two are tied together and the way you treat people in need is the way you do right by God. It's the roots of that concept. So I'm going to show you two proverbs. I don't think we've ever talked about these before that are kind of at the center of this. One is Proverbs 1431. It's a classic expression of this mindset. The one who oppresses the poor, taunts, or dishonors, his maker. But the one who is gracious to the needy, honors him. As I was words in this worldview, how you relate to the poor is how you relate to your maker. And actually, here, the one who oppresses the poor dishonors his maker and the question is, who's the his of his maker? Right. I think it's intentionally ambiguous, meaning the one who oppresses the poor and the poor have the same maker. You get in the logic here. So if you've grown up in a culture saturated and Jewish and Christian values, we already take this for granted. It's called human rights. Is it secularized version and the image of God is a good book of version? But this is a revolutionary stuff. God identifies himself with the poor right here. How you treat the poor is how you treat God. It's that equation right there unique to the Jewish and Christian traditions. So we're framing how you relate to the poor. There's another proverb, a few chapters later, Proverbs 1917, which reads the one who shows kindness to the poor, is the one that lends to Yahweh. He, that is Yahweh, will repay him his reward. Here we're very close to the language that Jesus borrowed us here. It seems likely that Jesus had this proverb in mind, even. In other words, somebody who shows generosity to the poor, lends to Yahweh. Exactly. He's actually giving money to Yahweh when he's generous to the poor. It's not interesting. It's very provocative. Very provocative. Yeah. And it's not the person in need who will repay you. That's not what you're after. It's trusting the Yahweh. We'll repay you for lending to him by giving to someone in need. That's revolutionary stuff, man. It may not seem so to us. In the old Greek Septuagint translation of this proverb that words showing kindness to the poor is the same root Greek word that Jesus uses. A laio, being repaid by God and so on. Jesus is expressing a worldview in which when there's somebody in my community who's in need, how I relate to them is how I relate to God. Yahweh identifies himself. with the most poor and vulnerable people in our communities. Man, I was just reading a very short, oh, yes, by the New Testament scholar, Kevin Row, called Christianity's Surprise. It's a wonderful little book. And he was talking about how in early centuries of the Jesus movement, this got translated into how you relate to the poor is how you relate to Christ. Yeah. That's it. I mean, that's bad equation right there. And that was so radical in the early Greek and Roman world, it led to the creation of these institutions that today we take for granted called hospitals, or orphanages, or food banks, and these were Christian contributions to Western civilization based off of this value right here. So that's just cool, and that's just worth just naming that doing righteousness, doing right by God, is directly connected to how one relates to the poor and the vulnerable in your own community. And be careful. I mean, Jesus, overriding point is be careful.
SPEAKER_06
14:13 - 14:41
Yeah, because that is a beautiful, wonderful thing that we central to this community. Correct. Yeah. Right. There's this ethic of giving to the poor. But then Jesus says, okay, be careful how you do it. Totally. Yeah. Because you could actually do it and miss the honor, but that you're seeking by trying to just impress people. Yeah. Turning it into a game. Yeah. That's right. To get honor from people.
SPEAKER_05
14:41 - 15:48
So here's two examples. Just right down here. There's on page 72 of the notes. One is this is cool. This is a stone inscription on an old synagogue from like the third century after Jesus. That's called the Theodotus inscription. And it's a memorial plaque that was on like the front wall of an actual synagogue. Here's how it reads. It says Theodotus, son of vetunus, priest and head of the synagogue. Sun of the head of the synagogue and grandson of the head of the synagogue, built this synagogue. For the reading of the Torah, for the teaching of the commandments, as well as building the guest room, the chambers, the water fittings, as an inn for those in need, from a broad. The synagogue which his father founded with the elders and the simonids were Simonides, some family. So yeah, we know this stuff. The memorial plaques. Yeah. I mean, universities, public buildings.
SPEAKER_06
15:48 - 15:53
They're usually not as worthy as this. Yeah, totally. Yeah. In loving memory of.
SPEAKER_05
15:53 - 16:41
Yeah, in loving memory. Yeah. Oh, I was just hiking trails. My kids this last weekend. And I had this big stone thing. I said, in loving memory of Erv, this is the last name. I don't know, it was some forest out in the cascade foothills. And my son August was like, who's this guy? Who's this guy? Who's this guy? Who's this guy? Yeah, what's like why in loving memory? What's that about? So I was like, oh, this guy in here, Erv, who probably loved this forest and gave money so that this trail could be maintained. And so in that sense, you know, it's red. I was like, oh, I was hiking this trail, and now I know the guy who, I'll pay for it to exist. This is cool. But man, be careful. Jesus says, because... If that's all you're after.
SPEAKER_06
16:41 - 16:43
Yes, great. We got the sign.
SPEAKER_05
16:43 - 17:48
Great. You got the plaque. You got the plaque. You got the plaque. Totally. And so this is a great example of how, in the Greek and Roman world, in Jesus' day, this is the game right here. To get that plaque, That's everything, man. That's everything. It's fixed in stone that I am a generous outstanding member of our community who has provided a good thing for other people. You get the plaque and people read your name and Jesus says, way to go. You did it. You did it. Yeah. There's a story in Luke. I have right here below this in Luke chapter seven where there's a centurion. So a Roman centurion. who has the servant who's sick and was probably going to die. And so the centurion sends some Jewish elders. So this is a Roman centurion sending Jewish elders of the community to Jesus. And they come and they pleaded earnestly saying, come to this guy's house, this man deserves to have you do this. Because he loves our people.
SPEAKER_06
17:49 - 17:52
And he built our synagogue. He's got the plaque.
SPEAKER_05
17:52 - 18:01
He's got the plaque. Yeah, but their logic is this guy deserves to have you come give a grace gift of healing in life.
SPEAKER_06
18:01 - 18:21
Yeah, there is a sentiment amongst people, which is like of course the plaque doesn't I don't care about the plaque. Yeah, but They do care about the desserts of the plaque. Being able to have access to the thing that that honor gives them.
SPEAKER_05
18:21 - 18:32
Yeah, you dedicate so that a library can be built at a university. But, you know, it might be what you're really after is access to the board of trustees. It's totally cool.
SPEAKER_06
18:32 - 18:36
Being able to, and being able to call one of them up, what you need, when you need something. Yep.
SPEAKER_05
18:36 - 18:47
That's right. Yeah. It's that, it's that game. And Jesus doesn't say, he's not saying, don't be generous. What do you think is be careful? Be careful.
SPEAKER_06
18:47 - 18:59
Yeah. It's not a problem if you gain honor with people because of your generosity. Just be careful. Be careful. Yeah. Because it can go right.
SPEAKER_05
18:59 - 19:47
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, your motives can get turned upside down so quick without even knowing it. So Jesus uses his vivid image of, I feel to your right hand that wants to write the check. Make, you don't let your left hand know what your right hand's doing. Such a great, you know, metaphor. Yeah, did you invent that? Yeah, this Jesus turned phrase. Well, yeah, totally. So the idea is, you know, it might be better for you and for others involved if it's an anonymous gift. Or if you just say, I don't need a plaque. It might actually be better for the health of your heart and mind to not get the plaque. I think Jesus would seriously want his followers to entertain a different mode of generosity that doesn't play the game.
SPEAKER_06
19:47 - 20:18
It doesn't seem like the plaque is the problem. The problem is when you then begin to orchestrate how your generous just to get the plash. It seems like what he's saying is because of that, you have to be intensely interested in how you're orchestrating your generosity. Do it in such a way that it's almost disorganized. Right? Like you don't have a strategy to get a plaque. Sure. You don't even, your left hand doesn't even know what your hands are doing. Yeah, sure. You're that disorganized.
SPEAKER_05
20:18 - 20:53
The fact that he uses a really dense figure of speech to communicate his ideas, Christians have taken this a lot of different ways. There are some traditions that have so inverted this whole game, inverted the game, that now the new way of gaining honor is to give anonymously. Yeah. Right. It can also go awry. It become a new kind of, a new kind of honor shame. Interesting. Game. And then all of a sudden it's, you know, someone will feel ashamed that there's somebody that they helped and that they wanted to like tell others and make it known.
SPEAKER_06
20:53 - 20:58
Yeah. Because actually when you learn about other people's radical generosity, it really does.
SPEAKER_05
20:58 - 21:06
It can really help. Help. They can really help. So I think it's important that we don't. It's what Jesus is giving ethical wisdom here.
SPEAKER_06
21:06 - 21:50
Yeah, I used to listen to this pastor who taught on this and he gave a picture that I can never shake when I read this now or he was saying he related this to dancing. like just kind of that carefree just like you're at a wedding party and the music's going and it's the disco jam and you just start going out there and just kind of going crazy he's just like when you're dancing like that in a carefree way you don't know your left hand doesn't know your hand is doing Right? You're right, hands go over here, like just shaking your left hands over here and your your body's just going. Yeah. And it's this free form of just like unabandoned joy. That's the picture he kind of gave this.
SPEAKER_05
21:50 - 21:58
Yeah. That's an imaginative way to kind of recast the image. Oh, yeah. Jesus, just a master teacher man. Here we are, too.
SPEAKER_06
21:58 - 22:02
What do you think? What do you think he meant by it? I use the word disorganized.
SPEAKER_05
22:02 - 22:28
I mean, it does seem that for Jesus, he wants to instill a value that the default way of showing generosity should be, I'm not doing this for other people to know about it. It's not what I'm after here. And if somehow other people are going to find out about it, okay? but that's not the reason I'm doing it because it's doing right by God and doing right by this person. I get it.
SPEAKER_06
22:28 - 22:55
It's like if you're doing it so other people can know about it, then you were trying to make sure that your right hand giving the gift is done in such a way that they see it and they know it. And Jesus is saying, do not be strategizing that way. Correct. In fact, reorient yourself so much that when you're giving the gift right hand, your left hand doesn't even know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
22:55 - 23:47
And again, remember, first century, Greco-Roman setting. This is the game. The game is to calculate. The game is calculation. The game is to put the plaque on the building so that I can gain more public notoriety so that I can be invited to this dinner when the so-and-so and because that person will be there and that can bring up the plaque. I mean this is the game. Yeah. And the game goes on in every human community. Right. That's ever existed and it's that the Jesus wants to turn on its head. The reason why you should give generously to somebody in need is because they're made in the image of God. And to do right by them is to do right by God. And whether or not anybody ever knows about it, Jesus' point is it doesn't matter. Some people might learn about it, but don't do it for that reason. It'll ruin everything.
SPEAKER_06
23:47 - 24:42
Including you. It's interesting that This ethic in Judaism of the way that you treat the poor is the way you treat God, created a culture where generosity was really valued. And that's a beautiful wonderful thing. But that could be used in a way that you don't actually care about the poor. What you really care about is you and the things that giving to the poor will get you access to because it brings you honor by the people who you think matter. And so Jesus just saying, you're doing that, you're being the hypocrite, the pretender. You're pretending to care for the poor. You're doing the things that look like you care for the poor, but what you really care about is the reputation. But it's cool that you get a good reputation by caring for the poor.
SPEAKER_05
24:42 - 24:43
That's great.
SPEAKER_06
24:43 - 24:48
Yeah. Yeah, sure. But yeah. The reason shouldn't be for the reputation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
24:48 - 25:46
Yeah. No, I'm thinking of a handful of individuals I've met in my years in pastoral ministry. People who have instilled this value in a unique way. So they're very wealthy. A lot of resources based on family and business and this kind of thing. And they've dedicated huge amounts of their wealth to really amazing public institutions and nonprofits here in Portland for all kinds of things. And there's a few people that I've met who, you know, when you meet them for lunch, like, where they drive up and kind of like a crappy car or just like, you know, not a fancy car. And they don't come across as somebody who's like, you know, dread important drugs for success. And I love that. I feel like that's so Jesus style. It doesn't mean that they couldn't get a nicer car or like dress more fancy. But there's just something about turning the game upside down.
SPEAKER_06
25:46 - 26:29
But here's the dilemma that I finally interesting. is that then that thing of like looking to shivold and driving the beater could become a new way to gain honor. So you could start doing that to get the reputation and turn that into a new game. And that's what's interesting about this game of giving to the poor. That was as countercultural as driving the beater car. The other Judaism within the greater kind of human condition. And so whatever the thing is that brings honor in your society, just be careful.
SPEAKER_04
26:29 - 26:42
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
26:42 - 26:45
Yeah, let's do the next example. Versus five and six.
SPEAKER_06
26:46 - 27:37
And when you pray, don't be like the hypocrites, the pretenders, because they love to pray, while standing in the gathering places, and at the corners of wide streets, for the purpose of being visible to people. Truly, I tell you they have fully received their reward. But you and you pray enter into your inner room and shut the door. So you can pray to your father and private. And your father who sees what is done in private, he will fully reward you. And when you were praying, don't use meaningless repetition like the nations. They suppose that they will be heard on account of their many words. Don't be like them because your father knows what you need before you even ask them. They're for praying this way and then the Lord's Prayer. The Lord's Prayer.
SPEAKER_05
27:37 - 28:40
Yeah. So the first thing is don't be like the hypocrites. They pray like this. They make sure that they are seen and visible in public when they do their prayers. There's a culture gap and context thing going on here. So Judaism, somewhere in the period, after the exile, maybe before, but for sure after the exiles, when it starts getting mentioned in the Hebrew scriptures, developed a tradition of fixed-hour prayer. You say certain prayers, most likely the shaman from Deuteronomy, chapter six, as well as other prayers, and it's fixed-hour prayer. So if you live in Jerusalem, It's kind of like living near a monastery. You know, you can always go join the clergy there who were singing the prayers. But if you're out on the street and all of a sudden, it's the three in the afternoon, which is afternoon prayer. You just stop and do it right there. Right in the middle street. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe it's step to the side or the point is that it's normal that people stop where they're at. in the middle of the day for afternoon prayer and say their prayer. I see.
SPEAKER_06
28:40 - 28:49
I see, as Jesus saying, like, so that happens, but there's some people who just love it. They just love it when, oh, it happens to be prayer time. And you're right there.
SPEAKER_05
28:49 - 28:51
It's been to be at the martin.
SPEAKER_06
28:51 - 28:58
I'm right here in front of these really important people. And I get to just do my prayer totally.
SPEAKER_05
28:58 - 29:32
Yeah. So if somebody isn't familiar with the practice of fixed hour prayer, where you stop, where you're at, and stop for 10 minutes and go wherever you're at, say it's step aside and say you're prayers. Then this will seem a little odd because it's like why would somebody go to the corner to pray? That makes that about. That makes perfect sense. So in Jesus' mind, he uses, again, provocative extreme contrasts where he says, go to the opposite of a public place, go to the like the back room of your house that has no nose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even then shut the door.
SPEAKER_06
29:35 - 30:08
It's actually pretty cool that they have this rhythm, which is no matter where you are. We're going to stop and we're going to pray. How cool. And so it could turn out that you're in the middle of the market when this happens. But then because of human nature, This beautiful thing suddenly you're strategizing like okay, where's the most important place I could be? Yeah, sure when prayer time comes totally Yeah, and Jesus is saying if you're gonna strategize be at home in a closet with a door shut That's the most strategic place.
SPEAKER_05
30:08 - 30:40
Oh, yeah, so One could take this and some Christian traditions have taken this to me in Jesus disapproves of all forms of public prayer. Right. And there are traditions that, basically, you know, minimize the role of one person leading a group in corporate prayer. Yeah. And it seems, I don't know, it doesn't seem to me that's what he's after here. Right. Outlawing, you know, public prayer or communal prayer led by some leaders. He's got his eye on some real specific here.
SPEAKER_06
30:40 - 31:14
Yeah, you kind of get the rhythm of his heart, probably, here in these, you know, you're giving an strategic way to other people see it. Well, no, given such an under strategic way that you don't even see it. You're making sure you're an important public square when prayer time comes. No. Just make sure you're gonna do anything, make sure you're home. Like this rhythm hyperbole kind of comes out. That's right. And so it does seem a little silly to be like, okay, well then this is about never pray together. Plus we have our own cultural prayer practices. They're just very different. That's right.
SPEAKER_05
31:14 - 32:06
Yeah. So every Jewish and Christian tradition has its own kind of prayer rituals and traditions. And the point is there's ethical and spiritual wisdom here. We all need to be careful. And prayers address to God, prayers about sustaining a personal connection to God. And so the fact that slowly I could distort that and start to use my conversations with God as a way to gain. honor before other people would have said. And you know, probably we've all had an experience of being an event. And you're talking to somebody. And then all of a sudden you realize they're like looking around the room. And they're either looking for someone more important to talk to. Or they've come up to you because they want to be seen talking to you or the people you see.
SPEAKER_06
32:06 - 32:14
Oh, they're wondering who's looking at them. Hi to you all time though, because I'm just actually able to distract it. I'm just like 80D and I was like, what's going on there with that?
SPEAKER_05
32:14 - 33:11
Totally. No, I have forced myself to make it a practice when I'm in spaces like that to lock eyes with the person I'm talking to. You know, it's funny and this is a really unique cultural niche cultural setting, but when you and I were out of Christian college, And there was a certain layer of people around the school who were like, they're like the music and worship crew. You know, they would like carry their guitars on their backs. And like in between classes, they would go out to the lawns and like get a group of people together and sing worship songs and so on. Because, and but sometimes I would go sit in the circle. Yeah. And like it was genuine. It's in fun to sing with people. Totally. But there was always one or two people of that crew where I was like, I wonder. I wonder. It seems like they get a lot of enjoyment from carrying that guitar. I love. I'm probably being judgmental.
SPEAKER_06
33:11 - 33:51
You are. But that happens with every culture. Totally. But it is very apparent in that. There's also the sense of throwing people under the bus. You've been in the situation where it's the prayer circle. and the person is just really good at printing. They just have like, the turn of phrases, they've got the Biblical vocabulary, they've got the rhythm and cadence, and they can remember Prairie Quest really well. They just got the whole thing dials, but this is the thing, how wonderful that they could remember Prairie Quest, and they have Biblical vocabulary, and they, but be careful.
SPEAKER_05
33:51 - 34:08
Be careful. It's the overriding point here. Be careful. So what's interesting about this middle example, second example, is that he then gives another example that's not at home in Jewish culture, but then he starts talking about repetition like the Greeks and Romans.
SPEAKER_06
34:09 - 34:13
that they use in their prayers.
SPEAKER_05
34:13 - 34:26
When you're praying, don't use meaningless repetition. They think they'll be heard because of their many words. And in contrast, Jesus utteres a very short non-wordy prayer. Let's talk about that in the next step.
SPEAKER_02
34:31 - 34:51
So we've talked about two religious practices so far, generosity to the poor and prayer. Both are good, but both can be done for self-elevation, so be careful. That leaves us with one more example, a religious practice that isn't as common today as it was in Jesus' time, the practice of fasting.
SPEAKER_05
34:57 - 35:11
So, fasting is the practice at a base level. It's when a person chooses to go without food or drink for a period of time, because something serious and sacred is going down.
SPEAKER_06
35:11 - 35:15
Where in the Hebrew Bible does it talk about fasting that you should fast?
SPEAKER_05
35:15 - 35:20
Ah, it is described, fasts are described all over the Hebrew Bible.
SPEAKER_06
35:20 - 35:23
Never commanded, right? I can't think of like a law.
SPEAKER_05
35:23 - 36:15
Yeah, there's a handful of the sacred days. Okay. We're a fast, like, day of a tournament. Oh, it's day of fasting. Okay. But fasting became more widespread for more reasons and there's more behind it. So fasting was a normal way that Jews and Jesus did express their devotion to God. It's choosing not to even drink for lots of reasons with lots of symbolism attached to it, but it's you're doing it before God. The whole point is God's audience, like prayer and like generous giving. And so, he says, there's, well, here, I'll read it. He says, when you fast, don't look gloomy like hypocrites. The pretenders, they make their faces look really disfigured so that their fasting will be visible to other people. And I tell you the truth, they have fully received their reward. People think they're legit.
SPEAKER_06
36:15 - 36:18
Yep. And that was what they wanted. Wow.
SPEAKER_05
36:18 - 37:48
Man, look, they've been fasting for like three days. Man there. They take their relationship with God really seriously. But when y'all, my disciples fast actually do this. Wash your hair. And not your head was oil. In other words, do your hair. Yeah. Wash your face. So that you're fasting won't be visible to people, but your father. Hmm. Your father. In private. He will know. And he sees what's done in private. He's the one. Try to hide your family. It's kind of what he's saying. Okay, so fasting. This was the excellent little book by Scott McNight. New Testament scholar. He does a kind of whole study of fasting and he revival New Testament and early Judaism. So he calls it body talk. It's a phrase he coins in the book. It's a whole body means of prayer. It's engaging your whole body in an act of prayer. It's an embodied prayer. He goes through all the examples we're fasting is mentioned. It's only actually commanded in one of Israel's feastes, but there's all kinds of narrative examples of it. So this is definition, Scott McNeight, ceases fasting. It's a whole body response to a serious and sacred moment in a person's life or community. When someone realizes that God is revealing His purpose through a set of circumstances, the normal response in the Bible is for people to stop eating, for a period of time.
SPEAKER_06
37:49 - 37:53
The day of a torment was the one sicker day, which is what you don't eat.
SPEAKER_05
37:53 - 38:01
You don't eat. It's the day where Israel sins are being brought before God. This day is so momentous.
SPEAKER_06
38:01 - 38:02
Let's not put food or water in our bodies.
SPEAKER_05
38:02 - 38:45
Yep. Yeah, that's right. This is why McMight's books really helpful in going through a study of all the fascinating examples in the Bible is my conception of what fasting is and what it's for. from just growing up kind of in and around church communities, with what McKnight calls an instrumental view of fasting. I stop eating in a attempt to show God that I'm serious. And I hope my fasting will compel him to listen to my request and do something about it. Okay. And he says, just look at all the examples exactly the opposite. In the Bible, fasting is a response to something that God's people discern, God is doing in our midst. and it's so serious and it's so sacred.
SPEAKER_06
38:45 - 38:48
That eating would be inappropriate in this moment.
SPEAKER_05
38:48 - 40:59
Yeah, yeah, here's another quote. Fasting is a choice not to eat for a designated period of time because the moment's so sacred, so serious that satisfying once most basic physical appetite would detract from its seriousness and profane that's holy character. It's a way of focusing attention on a serious moment or event and avoiding the indulgence of food makes us remember our fragility and dependence upon God. So there's kind of three main categories. There's like a sacred moment fast. So here's an example in this from the New Testament, the book of Acts. The Church of Antioch is worshiping the Lord and fasting. And in that season, the Holy Spirit made it clear that Paul and Barnabas were to be set apart for the reason that he called them. After they fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them. So the community discerns, there's something going on with Paul and Barnabas. Let's fast and pray. And it doesn't say, because they fast isn't prayed, then God said it just said they were in a period of communal discernment for what Paul and Barnabas are supposed to be doing. And as they prayed, they discovered that God had something new for them. So that's like, yeah, sacred moment. Once I had this category, I've done this a number of times. Just can I have when we were deciding if we should move to Wisconsin to go enter the Hebrew PhD program? We didn't eat for a day and we just kind of used the meal times to just pray enough God for wisdom. I don't know. It's cool. It's a good memory. Some people would call these thin moments where you feel like the barrier between heaven and earth in your life has become very thin and God's doing something and so you stop eating. That's cool. The most numerous examples in the Hebrew Bible are when people recognize they've done something terribly wrong. So they fast. They call out to God and so on.
SPEAKER_06
40:59 - 41:05
So, the famous example... That sounds like they're trying to get recompense from their fasting.
SPEAKER_05
41:05 - 41:37
Well, here's an example from First Samuel chapter 7. So the people, all kinds of things they've done wrong, they turn back to Yahweh. Samuel said to the Israelites, if you're returning to Yahweh with all your hearts, get rid of all your idols. commit yourselves holy to yaway and serve him only so they put away all their idols they serve yaway only and Samuel said get everybody together i'm gonna pray for the whole community and when they did so they fasted and confessed their sins we have sinned against yaway
SPEAKER_06
41:38 - 41:54
Yeah, so momentous that you're turning back committing yourself back. Yeah. This is an important moment. Let's market. Yeah. And by fasting, it really does market centers your focus and allows us to become more significant.
SPEAKER_05
41:54 - 42:06
Yeah. Yeah. So we're like eating is the, yeah, the most basic thing we do to satisfy our appetites to keep ourselves alive. Mm-hmm. and also then to indulge and enjoy.
SPEAKER_06
42:06 - 42:10
Yeah, and people actually feast for this reason too to mark a moment.
SPEAKER_05
42:10 - 42:27
Exactly. Well, that's what's interesting is the inversion of this is also a way to mark sacred moments. Yes. Totally, which is all the other other than the day of Atonement, all of the other Passover and Tabernacles. These are all feast events. So it could go either way. Fasting and feasting.
SPEAKER_06
42:27 - 42:29
They're in both about, no, okay, interesting.
SPEAKER_05
42:29 - 43:30
They're not a thought of a message. Feasting is about celebrating the blessing of God's abundance. Fasting is about intentionally holding myself back from abundance to mark the grave or serious nature of this moment. Which sometimes is genuine sadness. Other times, it's just serious. Some bird think for me. Yeah, totally. So man, in early Judaism, fasting is a thing in the earliest, Messianic Jewish communities. And then in the early Jesus movement, fasting was like a normal practice, like six days. Oh yeah, we've talked about, you know, the earliest Christian text outside the New Testament is called the did-ok. One of the earliest Christian texts, and it's like a manual for how to run a church. It's really fascinating. So there in second century Christianity, the idea is, you fast two days a week. Two days a week. Two days a week. Well, that's... Or you fast from dinner two days a week. And it's just a normal part of life. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06
43:30 - 44:24
What a cool thing that you have a culture where people are like, we're going to not eat to mark these sacred moments. We depend on God like this is a thin moment. Let's just stop and let's not be distracted by food. And that's so cool. And Jesus is going to be careful. Be careful. Because some people are doing that just to gain status in honor. And so they're actually going out of their way to make it look like they're fasting and they're fast and hard. Yeah. Totally. Yes. Hard and fast on the fast and Jesus then in his hyperbolic rhythm then goes when you fast. Like go out of your way to hide it.
SPEAKER_05
44:24 - 45:12
Yes, that's right. Yeah, and these images, knowing thing you're head with oil essentially do your hair. You know, wash your face. Yeah, don't look like you're fasting. That's the idea. It's pretty intuitive at this point. You all three of these works together. Yeah, depending on whether or not somebody's grown up in a Christian tradition, this might seem so intuitive because we've grown up in a tradition that's been soaked in this value already. So there's some imaginative work that we need to do to imagine a culture where this was like, wow, wow, imagine a setting where this kind of thing really needs to be said. But then I love how you've been flipping it every one of these examples. And to save, actually, any culture of any time has their own versions of this.
SPEAKER_06
45:12 - 45:41
Right. It's those things in your culture where it's like, it's actually pretty cool that we all value this thing. Yeah. It's cool that we'll sit around and sing worship songs together. Totally. It's cool that we'll take prairie quests and pray for each other. Yeah. It's cool that we have potlucks. Yeah. But be careful, because if you're bringing that casserole to the potluck, And you're putting it on the table and you know, so it's gonna be faster than whatever it's gonna. He likes that one.
SPEAKER_04
45:41 - 45:46
Yeah, it's terrible.
SPEAKER_05
45:46 - 45:59
It's totally it. Yep. So this is an enduring contribution of the sermon on the Mount that you can do the right thing for the wrong reason and ruin everything. It's the fly in the ointment.
SPEAKER_04
45:59 - 46:00
Hmm.
SPEAKER_06
46:00 - 46:40
Okay, so it strikes me. As we talk about contemporary ways to reimagine these teachings, is that our whole project, Bible Project, is about a really great spiritual practice to connect us to God. Yeah. Yes, right. And to others. Yeah. Which is to read the Bible as a unified story. Ladies and gentlemen, read it as meditation literature. Yeah. What we're doing, we're trying to model, make this whole thing about it's good. Yeah. But here we are now. But you guys publicly talking about the Bible. Yeah, sure. You know, we could be doing this privately. And I think for a really good reasons we want to do it publicly.
SPEAKER_05
46:40 - 48:03
Yeah, sure. That's right. But be careful. The same wisdom applies. James Jacob. Who wrote the New Testament letter? James, his pronounce Jacob. Yeah, has that one line in there about be careful. brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers. What he means is like local, Jesus community, teachers of the Bible and of the Jesus story. He actually says not many people should aspire to that because you are pointing forward to such beautiful truths, such noble ideals that if your life trajectory and habits are out of sync with that. There's could be some serious conversations with Jesus among that. He says you will bring on yourself a stricter judgment. Okay, a serious conversation with Jesus at some point. Yeah, the point is is that in anything that you do, that is truly good and worthy that's trying to help other people point towards life and towards Jesus, can itself be full of promise and have pitfalls attached. You're totally right. Like we're poking fun at like people we can think of from Bible College, but let's be self-aware that you and I sitting in talking into this.
SPEAKER_06
48:03 - 48:09
We're trying to, yeah, we want to do good. We want to do good. Yeah. And yeah, so be careful.
SPEAKER_05
48:09 - 48:28
Really careful. that your motives don't unconsciously over time and then maybe consciously begin to shift so that you do or say certain things because so people will regard you and think about you in a certain way. That's wisdom right there.
SPEAKER_06
48:28 - 48:46
And I think also just for the whole project, it's such a good thing to be able to be formed by God's Word, the Scripture. how many steps away are we then removed from like twisting it into something that no longer is actually good.
SPEAKER_05
48:46 - 50:06
Yeah, it's a good question. Probably not very many steps. Yeah. Yeah. Remember, for Jesus, the true reward is about being in those unvisible private moments where right relationships with other people and right relationship, but even more than that, the secret hidden place with God. It's like a picture of intimacy. Yeah, we want to see. Yeah, just be so careful. Don't do that. Yeah, that you don't lose that that is the ultimate goal because all of it will fade. This is a project like just again speaking autobiographically for you and I like this is a project. and there will be a day when we don't do this anymore and where what will really matter is the kind of person we've become through our life choices and that's the reward and the depths of our intimacy with God as we pass into the next phase of our lives and then beyond this life into the new creation like that's what endures and that's the real reward and yeah I guess it's about making sure Probably through habits and rhythms, check-in points that my motives get reevaluated.
SPEAKER_06
50:06 - 50:18
Because if you miss the point, even if it's a good thing, if you start to miss the point, the danger is, to say clearly for me, the danger is, be careful of what.
SPEAKER_05
50:18 - 51:40
Well, in this case, religious practices, the whole point is to form you into the kind of person who can receive the love and intimate presence of God. in this pure form as a human can experience it. That's what these practices are aimed at. Generosity opens us up to see gods. in the image of God and being generous to were prayer and fasting. And if I suddenly redirect those to actually be aimed at audience of other people, it's just like the biggest adventure and missing the point. But the thing that you miss out on is the thing that we're made for, you know, and that's the biggest tragedy. I mean, maybe that's why when religious leaders whatever fail, especially very publicly, it seems extra tragic because the thing that probably they desired at the beginning and maybe even throughout to do was to point other people to true life and you can end up losing the thing that you were aiming at. sobering, sobering. But important, and Jesus clearly wants us to keep that as part of our focus, even as we are generous and pray and fast and point people to find God in the scriptures.
SPEAKER_02
51:51 - 51:53
That's it for today's episode.
SPEAKER_06
51:53 - 52:11
Ah, but there's one thing that we skipped in this section. There's three religious practices in the middle one's prayer. And right after Jesus teaches us to be careful how we pray, He gives us a short 12-line prayer to pray ourselves. It's a prayer that Jesus prayed. It's known as the Lord's prayer.
SPEAKER_02
52:11 - 52:19
Yes, it's a beautiful and profound prayer. And we're gonna spend the next five weeks going over this prayer, line by line.
SPEAKER_05
52:19 - 52:39
Prayer is a many-faceted jewel in possession of the community of Jesus and it can do many things but what we definitely shouldn't ignore is that one of the main ways and functions that prayer had and she has a setting and in the prayer he gave to us was the formative prayer that's meant to shape us through repetition over a long period of time.
SPEAKER_02
52:40 - 52:47
Bible Project is a non-profit and we exist to experience the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus.
SPEAKER_06
52:47 - 52:52
Everything that we make is free because it's already been paid for by thousands of people just like you.
SPEAKER_02
52:52 - 52:55
Thanks for being a part of this with us.
SPEAKER_01
52:55 - 52:59
Hi, this is Kimberly and I'm from West Covina, California.
SPEAKER_03
52:59 - 53:08
Hello, this is Chris from Northumberland, Pennsylvania. I first heard about Bible Project from the dear brother and Christ and the father of a few of my former students.
SPEAKER_01
53:08 - 53:16
I first heard about the Bible project from YouTube while finding the best way to provide Bible book overviews to our Bible study group.
SPEAKER_03
53:16 - 53:28
I love to geek out with Bible project. I listen to the podcast every week. Bible project challenges me to keep growing in my knowledge of the scriptures as it uncovers amazing new things and thoughts work.
SPEAKER_01
53:29 - 53:40
My favorite thing about Bible Project are their use of progressive revelation principles. They put the pieces of each biblical puzzle together to present the full picture of what God reveals in Scripture.
SPEAKER_03
53:40 - 53:55
It has elevated my appreciation for the literary unity, genius, and beauty of the Bible, and it means me to worship and love God more and more. We believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus
SPEAKER_01
53:56 - 53:59
We're crowdfunded project by people like me.
SPEAKER_03
53:59 - 54:05
Find videos, study notes, podcasts, classes, and more at bibleproject.com.
SPEAKER_00
54:06 - 54:45
Hey, this is Tyler here to read the credits. John Collins is the creative producer for today's show, production for today's episode is by producer Lindsay Ponder, managing producer Cooper Peltz, producer Colin Wilson, Stephanie Tam is our consultant and editor. Tyler Bailey is our audio engineer and editor and he also provided our sound design and mix for today's episode. Frank Garza and Aaron Olson edited today's episode. J.V. Whitty does our show notes and Hannah Wu provides the annotations for our app. Original Sermon on the Mount Music by Richie Cohen and the Bible Project theme song is by Tense. Tim Mackey is our lead scholar and your hosts, John Collins and Michelle Jones.