Transcript for Ali Abu Awwad and Robi Damelin on Nonviolence as The Path to Freedom for Palestinians and Israelis

Probably anybody will notice within a minute that my life started in South Africa. But I've been in Israel since 1967. I think the main part of my story is the loss, actually. I mean, I could tell you a lot of naughty stories along the line, but I think When the army came to tell me that David had been killed by a Palestinian sniper, one of the first things that I said was, you can't kill anybody in the name of my child. So it was very clear somewhere along the line that I was going to do something Something to prevent other mothers from experiencing this pain, and it didn't matter which mothers are seeing you noise lately. I understood almost immediately that my life would take a completely new direction. It's your life before and your life after. And what do you do with all of this pain? And for me, sort of almost connecting to today, I see my behavior after the symptoms of October is very similar. To what happened to me after David was killed, I had this immediate urge or desire or mania almost to change the world. And so, something like three months after David was killed, I found my salted, huge demonstration thing that we had to get out of dark and dark territories. And what was so extraordinary, I recognized that after loss, there's no fear. I have no fear, you can actually put me wherever you like, and I don't care, I will talk, and I won't say what's in my heart. So what happens is I never prepare anything. And after I spoke at this huge demonstration, the parent circle found me and invited me to come to a weekend in East Jerusalem with Palestinian and Israeli families who'd all lost an immediate family member. And I can remember sitting around the table and looking into the eyes of the Palestinian, particularly the mothers and realizing that we shared the same thing, and that was like almost the beginning. of what I was going to be doing, because I understood that if we stood on the stage and spoke in the same voice, reconciliation and nonviolence, ensuring that would be an extraordinary example for anybody else in the world. And that we can change my whole life. My kids, my office, started to travel all around the world and I thought it was amazingly important. and could speak English, and I was very pleased with myself. I spoke wherever, to get all the Palestinian partner wherever I was invited. Concerts, hip-hop concerts, I don't know, Congress, all kinds of extraordinary places that who would have believed. And one night, when I was heard, I was sitting next to my computer, and there was a knock on my door. And I opened the door and it was three soldiers standing there. And when there three soldiers that cannot remain one thing, so I kept standing the door in their face and they kept knocking. And I thought if I didn't send my other child, that's for end I can't. And then they eventually I opened the door and they said, we can't return you that we caught the man who killed Edward. That's when it became difficult because you can go around the world and you could talk about peace and love and read that poetry as must angels do. Or, you know, what was I to do now to remain in some form of integrity? And actually, I need to connect it here to this part of my story who I was wondering around for months, not sleeping. And one morning he said, we were right, they were later to the parents, which is what I did. And in the later, I told him about the parent circle. We are now 700 families. Of course, Palestinian and Israeli have all lost an immediate family member. And I told him about David, my son. He was a student at Tel Aviv University studying for his masters in philosophy of education. And he was part of the peace movement. He also was part of the student uprising. I can't imagine where I got that from. And he played the French horn, which I deserve a make-over for. And he was this extraordinarily lovely kid who used to cook with me and drink with me and we had so much fun together. And I told him that I thought we should meet because we heard that to our children and grandchildren. So early, and probably freely in letter on, together with Nadua, a Palestinian former group, delivered the letter to the family. You can imagine how shocked they were. I immediately, not being the most patient character in the Middle East, imagine that there will be a letter the next day. Well, of course, that didn't happen. and it took three years and I got this message over a website to say that I'm crazy and I should stay away from these family and that he can't, this is from the sniper, he killed 10 people to free Palestine. But I mean, and this is something also connected with the war now, is I want to talk about understanding why people do things. From his parents, I understood that when it was a small child, he had seen his uncle violently killed by the Israeli army. And he lost two uncles in the second uprising. And so, I think this was an act of revenge. And so, what happened is when I got this later, it was like giving up being a victim. I was now free, I'm no longer contingent on what this man says. And I felt I could continue with the work, and I went off to South Africa, and we made a film, which is called One Day of the Peace, and extraordinarily, so it's also very relevant today. There's a soldier called Gilad Shant. Gina Chilit was a young Israeli soldier who was captured and picked as a hostage in Gaza for ideas. And I said then that they should free the prisoners, even if it were bring Gina Chilit back and sent me to treat the man who killed my child. Of course, I cannot speak for other parents. I can only speak in my own voice. And I went to the television and and I said that openly and you can imagine how popular that made me. But I thought it was important. And so I actually recently in the war now, I just wrote an update to say, please free this man if that's going to bring even more wine of the hostages back. So everything is kind of tied up one thing to the other. And in South Africa, I made the extraordinary woman When I was June 3, and she'd lost her daughter and she'd gone to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and told the people who killed her daughter, I forgive you. And I wanted to understand what the meaning of forgiveness. You know, everywhere I talk, everybody I ask, what do you mean when you say you forgive? Everybody comes up with a different answer. And I went to Nietzsche and we became sisters immediately, which happens with all bereaved mothers. And she said, forgiving is giving up your just right to revenge. And then I met the man who actually sent the people to kill her daughter. And he, I thought I'm going to make this monster, and here comes this man who says, by her forgiving me, she released me from my inhumanity. I thought that was an extraordinary statement. And I came back to Israel and tried to meet the sniper. This is a long story. But the law here actually says that he has to ask to meet me. So I've tried via letters and via his lawyer, but it's not working and it's really not all that important for me now. And that's where the story is, but there's so much bigger things than well be damned than now.

And hope. Hope is the most important equation in peace.

Oh, I really hope not. Yeah, let's see too. How many people will have to die then for people to think in another way? So I think I'm the same person as I was before David was killed. Only I'm not the dictator that I was, and I'm more compassionate. And I think it was a choice. It wasn't even a conscious choice because if I said you can't do anybody in and they were much round, I wasn't looking for any kind of revenge. And I think thinking about the revenge of the war now. of the humiliation of the Israeli army. You know, of being beaten on the sit-ons of October, what that humiliation creates is revenge. And I don't have that, because if I had that sensual revenge, look, they are parents who decide who died with their children when they die. You know what, physically, but they disappear. They are parents that build libraries, monuments. I think everybody wants to do the thing that would give them some solace. And for me, because David was still into education, for me, education, or of peace, thing to be the most logical thing. You know, it's very difficult. We had a meeting the other night, and this is not all together connected with what he said, but some of the women from our group to say, look, you know, they've been so much days now on both sides that is the death that we experienced as important. Do I have the right now? Yes, it's a very interesting, I was so shocked. You know, do I have the right now to go to these people? And I know for sure that the people who gave me the last soils were the bereaved mothers, they understood. But this also appeared, you know, and I was so, I couldn't believe that they were willing to negate a loss in order to feel that they were doing the right thing. And if it happened 50 years ago, is it still not there? I think it is. You know, your life changed forever. And it's generations of suffering. I'm watching a grand children. You know, they are so involved with David. Me, are staying songs about David. You can't run away from it. And even if it happened 20 years ago, it's as painful, except you learn to live with it next to you. And what do you do with that pain? You know? And I'm sorry, got carried away.

But then you know, it's extraordinary. I can tell you that now People who experienced herbal terrible things on the center of October, like not was he non who's family were burnt to death. His parents were burnt to death. On the center of October, or speaking out for peace and speaking out to stop the bloodshed. And the son of Vivian Silver, who was this wonderful activist, who I was sure was a hostage, and would come back and she would lead a peace movement. Her son is joined a parent circle, nor as well as my ears, and many others. And that's an extraordinary thing, because this is like four months, you know, it's not yours. And that gives me such hope to see these people who can be the leaders in the future of the organization. We can't have all bad sight me only. We need to have new people who will hate the organization in other directions. And it's so extraordinary that they're speaking out so quickly. So that gives me an immense amount of hope, the better in community gave me a lot of hope. We spoke about hope being this important equation. You know the better ones for my unrecognized village came to the music festival and saved hundreds of kids and 19 of them were killed and some of them were taken hostage. Just think about that they didn't have a stake in this whole madness. So they are extraordinary people everywhere and that's what brings me to continue to get up in the morning to do this work.

And we need the story tables. I am a great believer in storytelling. I've seen how that creates an emotional breakthrough. It's even the hardest of hearts. So it goes together. And I've been telling the story. I forgot all about it. Suddenly I remembered Ali about the jacket. Do you still have it?

So you will tell the story.

But this kind of a rest of the story, when you came through the checkpoint and the soldier asked you, do you remember that? Ask you where you were going and you told him. And you started?

Well, but that's terrifying. I've been to the States, quite since the war began. And listening to what's happening on the campuses, all over America, and we were invited by the World Bank. Now I thought to myself, the World Bank has to invite me because they're not talking to each other, they're taking sides. The importation of this conflict is so dangerous. It's creating hatred between Muslims and Jews. It's creating madness. What has some Jewish, it's studying a Georgetown University got to do with the decisions of Netanyahu and East Band of Hilton Glory. And so this excuse that's being used When we were at Georgetown now, there have been our mentors for many years. They are working with us on a module of dialogue meetings, which will be sent to all the campuses, all of America, with questions and answers, because I tell you, when it comes to thousands and thousands of people are turning to us, because they need some help. And so this is a way to do it, and thanks to Georgetown University, and to the teachers union, who will distribute the module, online, something we can get to a much larger audience. I couldn't believe when I was in London, what was happening? You know, I have family in London, and I have a little cousin, she's 13, and she was a star of David inside her shirt, which already tells you something. And then he went on the train and it came out of her shirt. and the guy came up to and said, die and bloody Jew. This is how the importation of our conflict is affecting the rest of the world. It's mad. If you can't be part of the solution, then please leave us alone.

But I also think that you need to prepare people. for reconciliation, because it's the robot. Why did the Oslo agreement? Why was it a failure? It was political agreement without thinking about the people on the ground. Were they prepared for anything like, do they know what a framework for reconciliation process should look like? Did anybody ever tell them there was such a thing as reconciliation? And so what we wanted to wear like these ants on the ground You know, who are situation to create this framework for a reconciliation process to be an integral part of any political future agreement, because without that, all you can expect is another ceasefire until the next time. And so the combination of nonviolence, but also of people understanding that there will have to be this process of reconciliation, because without that, we have a ceasefire, maybe. Which is good. I mean, Ireland has a ceasefire. They don't really have peace. I'd like to have this ceasefire as well. So it's a combination of both attitudes. And it's allowing the dignity of the other, you know, the night before I went to America. I had assumed, with many of the women, the Palestinian women from the parent circle, I'm very interested in women coming to the table. And I asked them to tell me what their daily life is like in the West Bank. Because people are not looking at the West Bank, they don't realize what's going on there. That's a cornering just waiting to blow up. And each of them told me that they were, they children were stuck at home. Their husbands couldn't go to work. So these are of course domestic violence. Why wouldn't they be And I promised them that wherever I went in America, I would talk about the West Bank and the life that they are leading. And people must know that people must allow and understand what the cyclists are doing, and how dangerous that is, and how we've got to find a way. We've got to find a way to talk, yes, I agree. We must talk to the cyclists.

I think you're importing outcome. And instead of that, you might ask your government to increase the money. These huge amount of sums of money in all peace movements as well, the percentage, that we think there's a decent rule that it's lawful. And without the peace makers, this grace will just be shared by two graves. and stop taking the sides to create. Don't stop saying what is happening. It's very important that people know that they are people living in tents in the salt with guys that are in this terrible weather. And that there are mothers running away with their children. And you know, one of the most poignant pictures that I saw were Palestinian kids holding onto their cats. and that newly broke my heart. You know, it's just, and this wonderful boy who stood on as I saw a clip and he said, I can't go away unless you let me take my cat to the south. And he paid, I don't know, 60 shackles or something, it's family, so that he could take his cat. Think about the mothers and children who are going to think about why. Do you remember when I said, right in the beginning, why? Why do people do these things? Why if you were a kid growing up in Gaza? And every two years there's a law, and you have no shelter, and you're a bomb, and you have no way to run, and you have no freedom of movement, and no hope. What kind of an adult are you going to become? And then I look at the kids, or they were invincible, Because the rockets, I mean, there were thousands of rockets, okay, but they had safe rooms. Unlike the Palestinian mothers and their kids. And now, suddenly after their attack on the city of October, they are in trauma. The whole two nations are in a trauma. And then I think about the kids that living in Steward and Auspherong and Auspherong on the border of Gaza. Those kids had been bombarded with rockets since they were small children and they were getting their beds at the age of 12. So what kind of adults are they going to be? So the work of Ali and Robi is cut out. They are so much to be done to heal these two nations. And I would do anything that I can to be with the families in the South's law and the people in the West Bank of Los Children too. And also many of them have families in Gaza who have been wiped out. And so, you know, what are we doing? How many more people have to die? You know, in the morning when I hear the announcements from the army about the soldiers that are killed, I don't think I'm so full of what? And I see these tiny little square pictures of beautiful kids. What the hell are they doing there? What is the end of this madness? How many more people need to die? How many more? When are the hostages ever going to come home? So who are we going to talk to just the people we like? No. It's got to end. This is mad. I can't bear it. I tell you when I see those pictures and all these people have become just numbers. All the people in Gaza are numbers, but the people in Israel are also numbers. All these people who are killed. For what? What is the end goal? Nobody knows. But one can just hope that people will start to understand that the Palestinians deserve the dignity that they deserve. And these ways that heart, I'd like to idea about the Jewish heart and the Palestinian heart, because I think it's the same heart.

Can you imagine how many more people we could get to? How much more work we could be doing on the ground? How much more we could create movies? We could create so many things that would change people's idea of who's on the other side. What is the problem we don't know each other? Do you know that when you go into a school, by the way, we've been banned from the schools, by the strumming government, but when you go into schools? A Palestinian under was really talking about their loss and their transformation to a 17-year-old kid. And you were asked the glass from who do you have admitted by the Stingen? It would actually be nobody. And who speaks Arabic, nobody, and who's being overseas, the whole class. So what do you expect? There's a total cutoff which creates fear which creates hatred. And the women's group in the parents circle does a lot of work in the West Bank going to houses. When I go into a household, the Palestinian partner, they look at me in the beginning quite suspiciously. But once I've told my story and once they've realized, you know, that there are other Israelis, because who have they ever met soldiers and say, Why would they think how many different? So it's breaking through this whole madness, so that we begin to know each other and respect each other and we don't have to know each other. It's a side benefit, you know, but we have to respect each other.

also at the fact, the miracle that we are still continuing to work. Because many organizations felt a piece of it. And I think that's an expression of trust that really is talking about. Because all these women who came out of this room with me, the night before I lived for America, said, even though our lives are so difficult, we want to continue to be members of the parents circle. And I'll have 700 families only three have lived from the war. And I think that's a miracle and that it should be supported. The more you support us, the more work we can do.

Look at such a difficult question, but actually it's not such a difficult question because the solution is being there or such a long time. It's just that word he has the bolts to do it. You'll excuse my language. Everybody knows that at some point the settlements will have to be something to spend it. They will have to be swapping of land. We know all of these things. It's been there for so long. You know, but nobody has the courage. That's the word that I was using. Is that courage to do it? And that's what we need.

Thank you so, so much for this. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Oh, God. Oh, bye.