Transcript for #56 44 Photos
SPEAKER_06
00:04 - 00:09
Hello. Hello. Do you know who this is?
SPEAKER_09
00:09 - 00:11
Yes, Evie.
SPEAKER_06
00:11 - 00:12
Yeah, you got me.
SPEAKER_09
00:12 - 00:22
You have a pretty recognizable voice I have to say. It has sort of like a pleasantly deep register. Wow. In a nice way, but it makes your voice very distinct.
SPEAKER_06
00:22 - 00:44
It's funny you should say this because one time when I was like in middle school my friend called my house and I picked up the phone and I was like hello and she thought it was my dad. She was like, hi Rob is Stevie home and I just pretended that in fact I was my father and I like was just like, uh, yeah, let me get her.
SPEAKER_09
00:44 - 00:46
You didn't want to contradict your friend.
SPEAKER_06
00:46 - 00:51
I think I was just so embarrassed that I could possibly be mistaken for an old man.
SPEAKER_09
00:52 - 01:00
Well, maybe with respect to your dad, he maybe kind of sounds like a little girl.
SPEAKER_05
01:00 - 01:10
Hello, Steven line stats taken.
SPEAKER_06
01:10 - 02:08
I'm Stevie Lane, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, 44 photos. right after the break. There are places, according to Celtic folklore, where the boundary between our physical world and the spiritual world is porous, where Earth and the otherworldly are separated by no more than a few inches. At these places, strange unexplainable things can happen. These places are called thin places, and this is a story about one of them. a few years ago, Jordan Kissner wrote a book about thin places. She wanted to send it to her friend Amy.
SPEAKER_08
02:08 - 02:20
So as April 7th, 2021, and I went to the USPS that was a few blocks away from my apartment at the time.
SPEAKER_06
02:21 - 02:27
Jordan bought a brown padded envelope, put her book inside and handed it to the postal worker.
SPEAKER_08
02:27 - 02:35
And that was that. It was a really un-eventful post office visit on a pretty normal spring day in Vegas.
SPEAKER_10
02:38 - 02:57
It was a sunny day in April, and I walked to the mailbox. This is Jordan's friend, Amy, which is a really exciting part of my day. I really like mail. And I opened the mailbox with a little key, and there's something like stuffed into my box.
SPEAKER_06
02:57 - 03:01
Something Amy had been expecting. The package Jordan sent her.
SPEAKER_10
03:01 - 03:06
It says, you know, to Amy from Jordan and the address is Las Vegas.
SPEAKER_06
03:07 - 03:21
Amy brought the package back to her house and eagerly tore it open. But inside, Amy did not find Jordan's book. She didn't find a book at all. Instead, she found a stack of photographs.
SPEAKER_10
03:21 - 03:23
And that's where the mystery begins.
SPEAKER_06
03:29 - 04:11
Amy didn't recognize anyone in the photos. There was one of a girl wearing a blue t-shirt with clouds printed on it. Another of three teenagers and caps and gowns. The people were of all different ages and races. Some of the photos were in black and white, some in color. One was a polaroid. Amy counted 44 photos in all. 44 photos of complete and total strangers. And yet, the package was labeled to Amy. Her name written in Ballpoint Pen. Jordan's return address was scrolled in the upper left-hand corner.
SPEAKER_10
04:11 - 04:18
Struggling to come up with an explanation, Amy wondered, maybe Jordan sent these by accident.
SPEAKER_06
04:19 - 04:27
So Amy texted Jordan, telling her she received her package, but rather than a book, found 44 photographs inside.
SPEAKER_08
04:27 - 04:37
And I was completely confused. I just, I just couldn't, I actually felt like I couldn't totally comprehend the message she was sending me.
SPEAKER_10
04:37 - 04:47
So Jordan texted Amy back, wait, comma, what with two question marks? Two. Yeah, two. And then photos question marks.
SPEAKER_06
04:48 - 04:57
Amy sent Jordan a picture of the package and all 44 photographs spread out on her kitchen counter and she said what in all caps.
SPEAKER_10
04:57 - 05:02
I have no idea what those photos are. I don't even know those people but that's my handwriting on the package.
SPEAKER_06
05:08 - 05:52
It was hard to know what to make of the whole thing. It's like any expected a book about thin places, but gotten actual thin place experience instead. Amy can't bring herself to just throw the photos away. So for an entire year now, she's kept them by her desk. And for an entire year, she's been studying them. There's the one of a new baby sucking on someone's finger. There's a little girl in glasses and a cheerleaders outfit holding her leg up and smiling confidently into the camera. The more Amy looks at the photos, the more she thinks about the family that's missing them. These people in the photos are nobody's to Amy, but they are somebody's to somebody.
SPEAKER_10
05:52 - 06:06
Is there a way to find any of these people? Like who are they? Do they want their photographs back? Because I would like the photographs to be returned to the family. I feel like people should have their things.
SPEAKER_06
06:07 - 06:20
A year ago, when Amy first received the package, she and Jordan tried opening a case file on the mysterious photos. Hoping the USPS could shed light on where they came from, but nothing ever came of it.
SPEAKER_08
06:20 - 06:41
The mail system, we feel like we understand it. But then when you really think about it, it is this complete mystery. It's like a void into which we send stuff and from which that stuff emerges again. But then when it doesn't emerge, you're like, wait a second. But what? What is it going? What is this system? What don't we know about it?
SPEAKER_06
06:41 - 08:06
There's a lot that I don't know about it. But Amy and Jordan want my help figuring out how Amy ended up with the photographs and how to return to Sender. To get to the bottom of it, I'll have to navigate a mysterious little understood world that exists alongside our own. A world separated only by an inches wide slot in a metal box. And so, I step over the boundary into the world of the United States Postal Service. I start with a theory that Jordan Amy and I discussed on the phone. Jordan had sent Amy the book via Media Mail, a discounted rate for sending things like books and CDs. From what I read online, it sounds like the post office searches media mail packages to prevent people from sending anything they want on the cheap. And in fact, Amy noticed that the package had been taped up, as though it had been resealed on route. Maybe Jordan's package and the package with the photos were both searched and then accidentally swapped. To test this theory, I call the postal inspection service. It turns out the post office has a whole department of inspectors. Are you sort of like the James Bond of the mail service?
SPEAKER_03
08:06 - 08:10
Actually, it's funny you mentioned on my badge number was 007. No, really? Really?
SPEAKER_06
08:18 - 08:27
His name is Michalco. Dan Michalco. He's a U.S. Postal Inspector, and what does he inspect?
SPEAKER_03
08:27 - 08:40
Postalcribes, theft of mail, mail fraud, prohibited items in the mail, such as bombs, narcotics, anthrax attacks, pornography.
SPEAKER_06
08:40 - 08:46
I put my theory to Dan. Might the Postal inspection service have opened an examine Jordan's package?
SPEAKER_03
08:46 - 09:00
No, no, we don't do anything like that. Only time would ever inspect mail as if we had a search warrant. So that we can't just open up mail. Huh. Nobody in a postal service has that authority.
SPEAKER_06
09:00 - 09:06
Dan says USPS investigators don't inspect packages without probable cause.
SPEAKER_03
09:06 - 09:08
Here's what it sounds like. May have happened.
SPEAKER_06
09:10 - 09:32
Dan guesses that somewhere along the way, Jordan's package got damaged and the book fell out. Another package, carrying the bundle of photos, could have also broken open. A postal worker might have seen the loose bundle of photos, thought they belonged in Jordan's envelope, and accidentally switched the packaging. And here's where that switch might have occurred.
SPEAKER_03
09:32 - 09:39
It used to be commonly referred to as the deadletter office, but now it's, I think it's male recovery center.
SPEAKER_06
09:40 - 10:27
The male recovery center, or MRC, is located in Atlanta, Georgia. It's where all undeliverable male winds up. Some of the stuff they receive is truly strange. An alligator skull still covered in flesh, cremation boxes, Tom Nesalke's 1971 NBA Championship ring, which had been stolen from him 12 years before showing up at the MRC. I don't know who Tom Nesalke is, but listeners might The MRC is also one of the few places where postal workers are actually allowed to open mail to help them look for clues as to where the items are letters belong. Dan says that it's the job in part of the MRC employees to make their best guess about what belongs with what and send it on its way.
SPEAKER_03
10:27 - 10:34
They have to try to put pieces together, you know, they're they're kind of slew us in their own way.
SPEAKER_06
10:34 - 10:55
In their own way. Don't condescend to the MRC agent, Mihalko. If Dan is right, the original package the photos came in with the original address might still be sitting somewhere at the MRC. So I phone up the person in charge to ask.
SPEAKER_04
10:55 - 10:57
This is the manager, Lionel Snow.
SPEAKER_06
10:57 - 11:04
Oh, hi Lionel. My name is Stevie Lane, and I'm a radio journalist. Do you have a moment? I swear I can tell you why I'm calling.
SPEAKER_04
11:07 - 11:17
Not really, I mean, I don't have a kind of conversation time to talk with customers.
SPEAKER_06
11:17 - 11:20
Nevertheless, I tell him about the mix-up.
SPEAKER_04
11:20 - 11:23
It'd be good if I hadn't. Anything could happen. I mean, I couldn't tell you.
SPEAKER_06
11:23 - 11:41
Lionel tells me that contrary to Danny Halko's theory, Jordyn's package likely never made it to the MRC. If it had, it would probably have a special stamp on it, which Jordyn's package doesn't. I ask if he has any other guesses, but he just keeps whipping out his favorite phrase.
SPEAKER_04
11:41 - 11:42
When I press, the answer is, or not.
SPEAKER_06
11:55 - 12:19
Jordan had likened the mail system to avoid into which we send stuff and from which that stuff emerges. But it appears it's also avoid into which I send my questions and from which nothing emerges. Over a number of weeks, I reach out to more people at the USPS in the communications department, the historian's office, even the postal museum. It is a mystery.
SPEAKER_04
12:19 - 12:26
It can't really guess you have 160 million addresses in the US. Cooked down for many more of them.
SPEAKER_06
12:26 - 13:59
Nobody is able to help. I've hit a dead end with the post office, so I turned to the only other information that I have. The photos themselves. Is there a way to identify the people in these photographs? There's a photo of someone's pet cat, but it doesn't have a collar with a tag. There's a graduation, but it doesn't show the name of the school. There's one photo of a man sitting in a restaurant holding up a signed headshot of what looks like a younger version of himself. The headshot is signed, Dr. Pedro something, MD. But after hours of Photoshop sharpening, I still can't read what that something is. For every photo, I'm just one small piece of information away from cracking the case. Every photo, except for one. The photo is the oldest in the bunch, a creased and faded polaroid. In it, a man crouches in the grass, supporting a baby and plaid overalls, barely old enough to walk. The baby is looking down at a dog, rolling over on its back playfully while the man pets its stomach. No one is aware of the camera. It seems to be capturing a private moment. And when you flip the photo over, there's something written on the back. Dalin, Kelly, and Queenie, it says in all caps. At grandparents, Coxes, Kelly, nine and a half months.
SPEAKER_01
14:21 - 14:41
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SPEAKER_00
14:41 - 14:49
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SPEAKER_06
14:52 - 15:02
Dallin, Kelly, and Queenie. Grandparents, Coxes. After Googling around, I find a number for a Dallin Cox in California.
SPEAKER_11
15:02 - 15:06
Hello.
SPEAKER_06
15:06 - 15:08
Hi, is this Dallin?
SPEAKER_11
15:08 - 15:09
This is.
SPEAKER_06
15:09 - 15:12
I'd call the few days before and left a message.
SPEAKER_11
15:12 - 15:21
I'm just really curious what this is all about. Honestly, I have no idea how it'd be involved in anything that you would be looking into.
SPEAKER_06
15:21 - 15:42
So I explained about the package of photos they me received about one in particular of a man with a child and a dog with an inscription on the back. And it says, Dalin, Kelly and Queenie at grandparents, Coxes, Kelly nine and a half months.
SPEAKER_11
15:42 - 15:49
That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. That'll be my dad. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Sounds like it might be of my dad and my sister, Kelly.
SPEAKER_06
15:51 - 16:12
Dallin's dad is Dallin's senior. Dallin suggests I give him a call to see if the photo belongs to him. Hello. I tell Dallin's senior all about the photo of him and his daughter Kelly. Then I texted over to him. All right, here it comes.
SPEAKER_02
16:12 - 16:45
Well, that would have been from 1967, probably or 68. She'd have been about nine months old, I would say at that time. Obviously, is standing up a little bit, but she walked it early age like that. So, you know, that's really something. No, I don't have that picture in my collection. In fact, I don't recall when we were having seen it before. Kelly was born in 67 in June of 57. And she actually, she passed away a march of last year.
SPEAKER_06
16:51 - 17:03
Kelly died on March 30th, 2021. The package with Kelly's photo was postmarked April 7th, 2021. Just one week after she died.
SPEAKER_02
17:03 - 17:09
That just makes it really strange.
SPEAKER_06
17:09 - 17:16
Kelly died unexpectedly of heart failure at the age of 53. It was a shock to her family.
SPEAKER_02
17:16 - 17:53
Everybody wanted her laugh when she laughed. It was just really unique. and enthusiastic laugh, you know. I remember taking her with me to Lake one weekend and she learned the water ski and she was having a ball. My dad used to take Kelly at that age when she was about a year old. Down to the lake and they would feed the ducks. He'd take red crumbs and they'd throw them to the ducks and she got so excited to do that. That was her favorite thing to do.
SPEAKER_06
18:05 - 18:43
Dawn's senior doesn't recognize the handwriting on the back of the photograph, but he wonders if it belongs to Kelly's mother, his ex-wife, Betty. Betty had been sick and unable to make it to Kelly's funeral. Maybe she put it in the mail hoping it would arrive for the service. When I phone Betty, she doesn't remember the photo, but she tells me that she did indeed mail a package of photos to her granddaughter, Devon. Devon is Kelly's daughter. This is Devon. So I called Devon to see if I ended up with the photos that her grandma tried to send her.
SPEAKER_12
18:43 - 18:50
No, I did get a package of photos from my grandmother. Huh.
SPEAKER_06
18:50 - 19:03
Devon got the photos from Betty in a package that was firmly sealed. And the photo of Kelly and Dalin, that one wasn't in there. Devon says she's never seen it before. As for the rest of the photographs, Amy received,
SPEAKER_12
19:04 - 19:07
I don't recognize any of the people.
SPEAKER_06
19:07 - 19:46
None of them, huh? No. Down in junior, down in senior and Betty, all said the same thing when I sent them the photos. Somehow then, it seems this photograph, along its journey through the mail, wound up with 43 other images of other random families. Devon can't tell me anything about those other families, but she does tell me about her own. Her mom, Kelly, got pregnant with her when she was in college. Kelly wasn't prepared to take care of a child. And soon after Devon was born, down in senior, Devon's grandfather took Devon in and raised her as his daughter.
SPEAKER_12
19:46 - 20:27
I know that my mom had mental souls issues and it took over my mom's life in many ways. There were many me and there were many years that passed by and I had nothing to do with my mom. Like I didn't know where she was, I didn't hear from her. I was unsure if she was even alive. So I've had a hard time growing up believing that my mom loved me.
SPEAKER_06
20:31 - 20:53
But Devon tells me, in the last seven or eight years before her mom's death, that changed. Devon was in her mid-20s, and without explanation, seemingly overnight, Kelly started reaching out more. She would come over to help Devon with projects around the house, like painting cabinets. The two of them spent hours sitting together on the couch, playing Zelda.
SPEAKER_12
20:53 - 21:47
And I felt like I had my mom. I finally had my mom. I was an adult, but at least I had my mom. Two weeks before she passed my mom just out of the blue said, do you want to go out and go do something together? And I was like, I don't know where do you want to go? And she's like, what about that place? It has many golfing go cards. And I was like, okay, let's go. And um, I hang on to that moment. Somehow I feel like she knew that she wasn't going to be around for very long and she was trying to spend more time with me and trying to do things with me.
SPEAKER_06
21:47 - 21:54
As for the photograph and the strange circumstances of its appearance, I don't feel like it's a weird thing.
SPEAKER_12
21:56 - 22:00
I just think that it fits my mom's personality.
SPEAKER_06
22:00 - 22:05
Did you something like that? How do you mean it fits her personality to do something like that?
SPEAKER_12
22:05 - 22:22
She believed that there's something beyond death. And I've never believed in ghosts or anything or anything after you passed. But if there is something there, my mom would definitely do something like this.
SPEAKER_06
22:23 - 22:28
See, you think that this is almost like a missive from your mom.
SPEAKER_12
22:28 - 22:29
Yeah, I think that's
SPEAKER_06
22:43 - 23:32
In Jordan's book, she writes that, in thin places, quote, invisible things like music or love or dead people might become visible. Or if they don't become visible, they become so present and tangible that it doesn't matter. Like Devon, I'm not one to believe in ghosts. Yet, after talking with everyone, I still don't know where the photo of Kelly came from. No one in Kelly's family can account for it. So after months of searching, the origins of this photo are still a mystery. But in what I see as a series of unexplainable events that began with Jordan sending a book and ended up here, Devon sees her mother. And it's precisely the unlikeliness of the events that she points to as proof.
SPEAKER_12
23:33 - 24:02
I just think if you look at all of the little pieces of how this happened, not just anybody would have reached out and tried to find the owner of a photo. I think it would have been tossed in the trash or pushed aside. I feel like it's like a treasure for my mom. That's how I feel like my mom placed it there on purpose and got it into the right hands that would reach out to me.
SPEAKER_06
24:05 - 24:31
I'd been thinking of this as a story about male going to the wrong place. But listening to Devon, I wonder if it's actually a story about it going to the right one to Amy. And yet, because the photo wound up in Amy's hands, Devon didn't get it for an entire year after Kelly's death. If Kelly wanted Devon to have the photo, why deliver it a year late? Why now?
SPEAKER_12
24:32 - 24:50
There have been times where I really needed somebody to be in my house with me. And out of everybody in my family and out of all of my friends, my mom would drop anything to come and support me.
24:50 - 24:56
And when she passed, I didn't have that safety net anymore.
SPEAKER_12
24:56 - 25:23
I had trouble at my job and I had to take extra time off. But if she's still here, that makes a difference. It's not easy living a mom. So, having this feeling that she's still here, she's still with me is amazing.
SPEAKER_06
25:28 - 26:27
Right after a loss, there are lots of people to lean on. But this time passes, and people return to their lives, you begin to feel that loss in a new way. Houses get cleaned out, clothes get donated, and all evidence of the person fades away. With the photo, though, Kelly has come back to Devon. A year late, but perhaps, right on time, Devon's grandfather, Dalin Sr., is turning 75 soon. Devon told me that they're throwing him a big party. She's been working on his birthday present for months, a new family photo album. And along with all the photographs she's collected, she wants to include this one. Safe among the other smiling faces of Kelly's family members. Where, surely, it won't be lost again.
SPEAKER_07
26:38 - 26:38
you
SPEAKER_00
27:12 - 27:33
We're turning to it's goodwill home Now that the last month's rent is skiing with the damaged deposit Take this moment to decide If we meant it if we tried
SPEAKER_06
27:46 - 28:52
This episode of Heavyweight was produced by me, Stevie Lane, along with Jonathan Goldstein, Phoebe Flanagan, and Mohini McGoutker. Our senior producer is Khalilaholt. Special thanks to Alex Bloomberg, Mimi O'Donnell, Lauren Silverman, Maureen Taylor, Estelle Ivory, and all the incredibly patient people over at the USPS. Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Bobby Lord makes the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson, Blue Dot Sessions, Sean Jacobi, and Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be found on our website, gimletmedia.com slash heavyweight. Our theme song is by the weaker than courtesy of Epitaph Records. Amy has just written a new book, Artificial, a graphic memoir about her father's efforts to preserve her late-grandfather's identity using AI technology. You can find it at your local bookstore. Heavyweight is a Spotify original podcast. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcasts or email us at Heavyweight at gimletmedia.com. You can follow our show on Spotify and tap the bell to receive notifications when new episodes drop. And one will drop next week.
SPEAKER_05
28:56 - 29:14
Hello, Steve is Dad's bacon.
SPEAKER_09
29:14 - 29:17
Oh, that was nice. Okay, great. Estelle, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_05
29:17 - 29:19
I wanted to show about anyway.