Transcript for #1050 - Dr. Shawn Baker

Thanks for doing this.

If you would have asked me two years ago, I would have said, that's fucking crazy. I mean, it's what I would have said. You know, if you'd have asked me even five years ago, I'd say, yeah, that doesn't really matter much, just train your ass off, because I'd been an athlete just training my whole life. I didn't really until I got my mid-40s and all of a sudden, I was like, crap, training and work and I'm getting fat, I'm getting high blood pressure, you know, probably pretty diabetic, and then I, you know, then I went down this, You know, this dietary journey where I went from, you know, doing the low fat low calorie fish and vegetables, almost vegetarian, training three times a day, just about trying to get lean and then I went down to, you know, that I was like, man, this sucks. I'm miserable. You know, I can't just can't maintain this, you know, then I went on the paleo diet, started to look like man, bacon looks pretty good. And then I went, and I sort of read some more than I went on to, you know, low carb, high fat, and then I did ketogenic for about two, three years, because I think you do stuff like that. And then I just started reading about these people that do this carnivore diet, and then I went sort of reading about it. Well, there's actually a Facebook group, it's called Zeroing, you know, on health, there's going to be Charles Washington, he's been doing about 10 years. And so they got about 10 There's about 13,000 people's right people.

I mean, he basically eats, you know, I think he eats steak and pork ribs. Stuff like that. And there's another guy. I mean, there's more impressive. There's a guy named Joe Anderson and his wife, Sean, they've been doing it for 20 years. And then I could probably show you a picture I got. But he, I mean, he's 60 and he looks like he's 30. His wife is in his mid 40s and she looks like she's 25. I mean, there. I mean, well, by looking at these people, you're like, they're crazy. Hell thing. You know, what happened was she had Lyme disease, real bad, and what's kind of overweight, and really sick. And he started doing like a same stuff I was doing. He's reading about these old school bodybuilders. He remember, I don't know if we're going to Vince Garanda. So he promoted the steak and eggs diet back in the 1950s, and he was just jacked. I mean, he was like, this is, you know, 1956. He was kind of before most of the steroids stuff was hitting. You know, I mean, there were still some steroids back in the 1940s, you know, the Nazis play with that with the troop. You know, I didn't really get into the bodybuilding culture until probably the 60s, you know, and then the 70s and that's, you know, not everywhere, right? But he was doing this stuff. And if you look up, if you look up Vince Garanda and look at his physique from the 1940s, 1950, he's freaking pretty amazing. And he's just eating meat. He was eating. His diet was basically I think it was five days of just eating meat and eggs, of steak and eggs, and then every one day, like every fifth or six day, you could eat whatever. So that's what he did. So that was his night. So that's what he looked like back in 19. You know, that's probably 50s. You know, so that's pretty decent for back then. You know, Jack. Well, I mean, for for a non-steroid guy.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, they didn't know. I mean, if you go back into history, well, I'm going to talk about that. But then there's a guy in Larry Scott who was like the first Mr. Olympian. He was another guy that was eating just tons of meat, you know, four, five pounds of meat a day, and he won't miss your Olympian. Again, you know, there's some of their drug use, you know, and some of this stuff, but I was just reading about this stuff, and I was just like, well, I'm an athlete, I like trying this stuff, and so I said, well, I'm just going to try it from month. And so I did it from month, and I was like, man, I feel pretty good, right? So I was like, well, I'm going to, I'm sorry, I was like, I did a month, and I'm like, well, I'm going to go back and go back to my ketogenic diet and so I started remember that day the day I did I was like I'm gonna need some apples a little almond butter you know I had some berries and creamiest stuff you'd normally eat as a treat and I just didn't feel as good you know like my back started hurting a little bit and I was like well maybe that's where someone so then I once said Well, I'm just going to go back to eating meat again.

Well, I mean, it's just like, you know, there's one of the things that I've seen, you know, we can talk about this, you know, in detail, but I've seen a lot of people, what they'll say is, you know, and this is what I saw, you know, what I was working as a surgeon. When I put people on a key to getting diet to joint pain was starting to go away. Right. So this is a pretty common.

Well, I think, yeah, I think it's, you know, I don't know what it is for sure, but it's something we eat most like. You know, in a lot of cases, not always, but I think there's something out there we're eating. I'm pretty convinced is not meat. You know, that's what I can tell you for sure from what I know. You know, whether it's, you know, sugar, whether it's, you know, processed gluten or weed or stuff like that, whether it's vegetable oil, whether it's, you know, or even some vegetables potentially. And so this is what I'm seeing. And this is what I saw. You know, I studied these large Facebook groups like an anthropologist, you know, like they used to study these people, you know, 100 years ago they'd go out, you know, Western Price would go out and see all these people and study their teeth and stuff. The problem with that is, you know, you don't speak to a language, you know, it's pretty remote. You can't, you got to translate. And so some of those observations, you know, while they're valid, they're hard to do now, you know, but so when you go on these groups and you just, what, you know, even though it's like reading this like a scientist going, okay, this guy went on this diet and he's doing a point away. This guy went on this diet and his thyroid disease went away. This guy went on this diet and his skin got, you know, psoriasis went away. And I kept seeing this over and over and over and over again. I mean, thousands of them.

Yeah, I would say that that's a good strategy for most people. You know, here's a deal. I don't care what people eat. You would ever make you healthy. You know, I think this is the thing we have these national guidelines that tell people what to eat, but they don't work for most people. Obviously, I mean, look at our country. I mean, it's just it's sad to see all these people that are you know, really really in seconds. So I think, you know, there's a guy in Vinny Tortor who has this no sugar-known grain. I think that will, that will successfully help a huge percentage of people. You know, but I think you have to be objective about it. You have to do it long enough for it to have an effect. And, you know, I think you have to, you know, be really clinical about it. And so one of the big problems I see is a physician. And this is a big problem because people will go on low carb diets or ketogenic diets. And they'll say, I feel the best I've ever felt in my life. I mean, my mood is better, my mental cognition is better, my joints feel better, my gut stone hurt, my skin is better, my sex drive is better. Everything you would say is that means you're getting healthy and they'll go to their doctor and they'll get some blood drawn and their cholesterol will be high. And the doctor will say, well, you're going to kill yourself and you're going to have a heart attack, right? So people get scared away from that and they go back to eating their other stuff and they feel crappy again, but they're like, well, at least my cholesterol is not bad. So one of the big problems, and I've kind of sort of basically preaching this stuff as I think, and this is a problem with healthcare in general, is we have so gotten away from just defining what's healthy. You know, if somebody comes into your office, and you say, you know, you mean you're talking for two-three minutes, because healthcare is just, you've got ten minutes to see a patient make a decision. So what you're going to do is like, how are you doing, order a bunch of labs, you look at the results of the labs and say, Okay, this lab's low, this lab's high, this lab's normal, going this drug, or you know, do this or that. And the patient may be saying, what? But I feel great, or maybe conversely, may say, I feel like crap. Well, you look at your lab's look fine. So go exercise a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, I was very, very, I'm still skeptical. I mean, I mean, that's just the way you should be. But I mean, I was aware of what's not in me. You know, if you look at the RDA, you know, if you look at the RDA and it says, me and his low and in vitamin C, It's low in manganese, it's low in, you know, potassium, it's low in, you know, vitamin A about to me. There's a whole bunch of things that's low in, you know, on paper, right? So I was like, why don't I can't rectify why are these people doing so well? You know, just kidding me. And we know historically that there are populations out there, they know where at the Messiah. Sammy and all these people, you know, and anyway, it's probably the best example, right?

Yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, if you go to, you know, if you go to northern Alaska in the wintertime, you good luck trying to find a fruit of vegetable. I mean, right. So, but what people would say when they would, they would just, they would just find it. So, yeah, but they had a lot of their organs. I guess the vitamin C from the liver. And, you know, some of the, some of the whale skin had some, and so they would just try to justify that and try to make this as how it worked. the same thing with my side they would say well sometimes they would eat some berries once in a while to always try to justify them like you know those things aren't available year-round so you know you can't get berries you know it's especially in Alaska or wherever they would are you know you can't you can't get that 12 months out of here.

Well, this is this is what this is what I after doing a lot of research on this stuff. So we've known. So it's interesting. So when we look at the development of the RDA's, you know, the recommended daily allowances, those were developed back in the 1940s and they were developed basically for soldiers to figure out what the heck he's supposed to feed people so they can survive. And so they did research on this. And what they did was they take populations of people that are consuming a normal diet. Like back in the 1940s, you know, people would eat a mixture of everything. It was fairly high in carbohydrate, not as high as it is now, by the way. But it was a mixed diet. And so what they see is, you know, if you eat that diet and you're deficient in this nutrient, if you don't get X amount of this nutrient, you're going to develop some sort of nutrient deficiency syndrome. So they said, okay, well, we know that This level of nutrient deficiency causes disease, so therefore we're going to recommend this, you know, everybody gets this amount, right? So, but they knew what they found out back, even in 1897, there's a study where they were looking at animals. And they looked at something called Thiamon. You know, they didn't know what's Thiamon back then. But they saw that certain animals, if they're on a lower carb diet, they didn't get this disease. We're animals on a high car, carbohydrate did get this disease. And that disease was called Barry Barry. And so that's a Thiamon deficiency, which causes neurologic problems, or just a heart failure type problems. And so they were noticing that these animals are on a lower carb diet. Even though they Thiamon levels were really, really low, They weren't getting diseases. So if you look at that and you look at all these other nutrients, you know, things like manganese, you know, manganese is highly required for carbohydrate metabolism. And so if you're on a diet where you're not taking any carbohydrate, all of a sudden you've got to say, maybe I don't need as much manganese despite what the already is. And you can look at that for nutrient after nutrient glucose and vitamin C's are huge one. All right. So vitamin C, you know, if you don't take vitamin C and you get Really really you get scurvy you get sick you die. I mean they'll kill you. I mean you end up with bleeding in your joint your teeth fall out your gums rot your skin opens up with sores horrible disease And these people are not getting scurvy. And so what's happening is we know that a molecule of glucose and a molecule of vitamin C are almost identical. And so they compete for the same transporters. And so if you don't have a lot of glucose floating around, you need way, way less vitamin C. Really? So there's that there's some, and this has been known for it for quite a while as well.

They basically can't cancel each other out. I think what's happening, and this is one of the things I think potentially in this needs to be investigated, but I think that a lot of people that we have all these vitamin deficiency, vitamin D deficiency, magnesium deficiency, a lot of that may be caused by just ingesting too much carbohydrate and creating a higher than normal need. So basically, where we're creating higher needs for vitamins. Now, do you do blood work on yourself? I haven't, you know, I haven't yet, I'm gonna probably do it once I get, you know, I'm a year at this. You haven't done any? No, I don't, you know, here's the deal. I mean, I've got a lot of people to do it all the time. I'm not that interested in it because I just don't, I don't think it makes that big of a difference for me. I'll do it just out of, I don't just to satisfy those other people's curiosity. I don't really have that much curiosity personally. How about your blood work?

Well, I mean, it depends, you know, if you can tell me what blood test tells me I'm healthy and I don't think you can't.

Yeah, so that's an interesting point because we've started this, you know, and again, I was, I started doing this and got public on it and Twitter and a lot of people were saying, well, yeah, you're You know, you're doing well. You're, you know, I'm breaking some more records and stuff like that.

Like what, what, what, what old records do you break? So on that, you know, so I've been a, so I've been an athlete in my whole life. John, you know, I've done. You've got an athlete. Like pretty still. I mean, you know, I'm about 240 right now. But I mean, I was, you know, someone I was, when I was younger, I played rugby in New Zealand. I was playing with the most, some of the all blacks, you know, that a high level. This was before was perfection. That's the name of the team, by the way.

You want to know the history of that? That's kind of an interesting sort of thing. So back back in the 1900s in New Zealand, guys were so fast. And there's forwards and backs, forwards, elect alignment in the backs of the fast guys. And they were all so super fit. And so they said, they look like they're all backs, but somebody type made a typo. So they call all the bikes. So that's what I mean. That's interesting. But they're like the best rugby players in the world. Some people say South Africa's pretty good. New Zealand's pretty much the best. So I played down there with those guys. And then I went into weight, you know, powerlifting. And I had an American record in the deadlift in close to 800 pounds as a drug free athlete, back in the 30s. And then I went on to, um, I just had strongman stuff for a few years. And then I went on to throwing, you know, like track and feel like discussion shop, but then the highland games where you You know, you're running around with a big caber and we're killed. And I won the World Championships in that. And then, you know, when I got in my mid-40s, I was about close to 300 pounds back then. I was about 280 to 85. And I was like, man, I just can't keep me doing this side. So that's when I started dieting and stuff. And so I got down to pretty lean about 240-ish, where I'm at now. And I started doing this indoor rowing stuff, which is not a concept to, so you remember, I don't know, you know, kind of a greater on this I remember the machine he was rolling on. I mean, I'm sure in all of the M.A. M.A. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M which is, you know, and this is kind of interesting because highly highly glycolidic. I mean, it's, it's like, it's not like running a marathon like, like Zack Pitter. Explain glycolidic. So glycolidic means you're burning glucose. You know, you're using muscle glycogen. You know, I know you had who's a fellow on a couple of weeks ago. That's a pressure. No, it was the other guy with any galvan. Okay. Yeah. You say, no, you got to have glycogen and I'm like, well, to do highly glycolidic activity. So this is highly highly glycolidic activity. It takes about, right? a minute to a minute thirty and that's that's intense you know like you're going all out right and so I was able to break the worth of fifty plus world record in that and it was when I went out when it was when I got to fifty it was one minute eighteen point three seconds and so I put it down all the way down one fourteen so I took four seconds off the world record without a single ram carbohydrate totally

Right. So this is another sort of thing that I think a lot of people sort of have questions about. One thing we know about gluconeogenesis. So that's converting protein or fat into glucose. Is it's demand driven? So your body doesn't just make it. So if you eat a lot of protein, it doesn't just say, I'm just going to make a bunch of blood sugar for the heck of it. Because your body doesn't need it. So one of the things that Glucose is extremely important to the body. I mean, you really need it. I mean, it's absolutely, so the nice thing about it is if you regulate it really, really well, and the best way to regulate it really, really well is just to make your own. So rather than, you know, getting it from kombucha or, you know, eating a bunch of carbs, you know, where it's going to be all over the place. So this is what happened. So so ketosis, and again, I probably spend You know, significant periods of time in ketosis, but I'm not always in ketosis, and that's not the point of this, you know, but I mean, I think ketosis is probably a good thing, you know, periodically, but I don't, you know, like I said, I don't think

So, you know, because it depends a long ago between meals.

So I intermittent feast. So this is what I think is, you know, I think this is probably more pride. I will often go Well, here's funny. You know, so I was in Denver, a couple nights ago, I went to the big Brazilian, you know, get down all you can eat meat place. And I just two Oscar here. Yeah, yeah, I just pick a little shower. So I went there and I just, I, I had them come back 50 times. Wow, I got like I clicked everyone outside 50 freaking orders of food. I had a bit of about six pounds of meat. I just put it away in one setting.

Yeah. So I put away about six pounds and then I'm not hungry for like 30 some hours. So I'm basically, it's not that I'm intentionally fasting. It's just I feasted so much that I just don't feel like eating. So I think here's what I think. Huh. You know, why do you think we have an appetite? I mean, what's the point of an appetite? Tell you, Wendy. Right. Right. That's exactly right. But if you're eating the crappy wrong food, you know, your appetites all screwed up. So what are the problems? We have people eating the wrong food. You know, we have this all this processed garbage. It's full of calories, sugar, and crap. But it doesn't have any nutrients in there. So every time you're hungry, your body's saying, give me more nutrition. Well, if all you do is pour in garbage, your body, you're always going to be saying, I'm hungry. I'm hungry. So what is the insulin spikes? That's stuff. I mean, so you want to know, insulin is not We need some insulin. We need insulin from muscle growth. It's an useful thing. The goal of insulin is not zero. That's what people understand. We don't want our glucose to be zero. We don't want our insulin to be zero. But we don't want it always, always spiking. And so when you eat a big meal of something you're supposed to be eating, and I'll argue that I think meat is a pretty damn good meal. We can talk about how it's completed or not. So when you do that, you know, you're just like the next time you're hungry. It's time to eat. I need some, I need energy. So you can get it from that when you eat meat. But I also need structure. And so by, you know, eating meat, you know, you're basically giving your body what it's asking for. And I think that works pretty well.

But I mean, you know, balance diet is just a freaking cop-out. I mean, it's like, I don't know what that fuck to tell you, so I'm gonna tell you to balance diet.

Yeah, so I mean, you know, because I didn't know I was gonna do this. I just started doing it. I'm like, well, I've already noticed. I'll probably get some, you know.

I've tried. I said, I'm gonna try for a month. And I just felt so good. I was like, well, and you've been on it for, so I started the last December.

Well, I probably will. I mean, you know, but the point is, the point I'm making is, well, what is it going to tell me here? Here's the thing we don't know. One of the things is, I'll tell you what'll probably, because I've seen hundreds of people who've already done blood work, so I know it's going to show basically. So I've gotten, we've got this studying going, we've got all these people submitting blood work. But the, you know, probably, my HDL will go up, my trigger, so as we go down, my blood trigger will stabilize to a low level. My inflammatory markers will be normal. That's because I've seen lots and lots of other people's blood work already, so I know it's going to show my cholesterol may be up or down. And that's something that we have a lot of people word about that and you know I can talk about cholesterol my view is a pretty worthless marker you know by itself you know you have to take it into context and so there's a you know there are a couple people that are really really intelligent about cholesterol that are really testing this sort of one guy's name is Dave Feldman on Twitter, his name is Dave Keto. There's another guy named Iver Cummins, who's an Australian, and he's both engineers. And so this is what happened this guy, Dave. He goes on a Keto dating diet, his cholesterol goes sky, freaking high. It's like 400. Wait, wait up there. His doctor's freaking out, and he's freaking out. So he's like, I don't understand this. I mean, I feel great. Everything about me is just best health ever felt my life. So what he does is he starts drawing his blood every single day. He gets a blood test. And what he finds out is that his blood cholesterol is all over the place. One day, it's 300 in the next day, it's 200. One day, it's 350 in the next day. So what we, when we go to the doctor every six months or here and they get a blood cholesterol, you assume, well, that's my cholesterol. And so what? Well, he found out that it's so variable. They've actually known about this since the 1950s, but no one has been talking about it. So what he figured out, and he's a systems engineer, and he's engineers, or some smart guys. I mean, that's one thing I kind of talk about. It's just to get somebody's an MD or PhD doesn't mean they know everything. There's a lot of people that are plumbers, and whatever, they don't have any formal training that can figure their smart people, and they can figure the stuff out. So he's an engineer, or a real smart guy, and so what he does is he figures out that cholesterol, is basically all it is, is it's traveling around in your blood based on energy flux. So how much? So if you've eaten a lot, so if you've eaten a whole bunch of food and you're full, your liver is saying, I don't need to put out a bunch of fat, because you burn fat as fuel, and even if you're not on a kidney joint diet. So what it does is it transports fat. So when you're hungry and you have an eating it for a while, like you've fasted for a blood test, your liver says we need fat in this is because we're low on energy and so it shoots out all this fat and what happens is cholesterol is this cruising around for a ride so it's just sitting there you know you know as a passenger so depending on how much you've eaten when you've eaten that'll change your cholesterol And so it's not a very good marker. I mean, you can find studies that show for all cause mortality, like if you're like you and me on it because you're the same age as I am. I think you do right. Yeah, we're both 50. So if we look at, you know, and again, associational studies are not that great. But if you look at that and you say, all cause mortality, am I going to die or not? If your cholesterol is high, you're less likely to die. If your cholesterol is high, you're less likely to get Parkinson's disease. If your cholesterol is high, you're less likely to get a bunch of cancers.

We're going to die. Yeah, here's how here's a deal of heart attack. So this is interesting because, you know, they just turn to vegan. I don't need to pick on vegetarians of being because You know, I know some great ones are great people and I think, you know, there shouldn't be a war between this, but vegetarians are vegans. The number one killer of vegetarian vegan is heart disease. I mean, that's what kills them, too. It kills everybody. So it's just like, you know, you know, you trade, am I going to adopt cancer? Am I going to try to adopt heart disease? You know, which one pick your poison?

You know, there's a, you know, if there's a, I'll tell you what, there's a guy named Joe Anderson on Twitter and his handle is Joe Charlene 98, 88, 98 or 98. So Scott, you know, it's just the guy he's been doing it for 20 years. I'm just like, this is pretty cool. Like I said, reading back on that stuff. And then just because I've been an athlete, I'm like, and I don't, you know, I'm never taking drugs and stuff like that. And I was always like, what can get me doing the next level as far as athletic competitions? I'm just a really competitive guy. I mean, I just, I just like to, you know, push myself and see what work

He eats meat. I mean, it says it's a freaking hell food. Totally. Yes. I mean, in the other guy named Bobby Maximus, who's a fitness guy. He was, I guess he was just, I mean, I'm a man guy years ago or something like that. But I know he did this steak every day thing. And I assume. If we look back into history, I mean, there's all kinds of accounts of people using meters and athletic performance and answering, you know, back in the original Greek Olympics, those guys knew that they had a lot of meat to perform better. You know, the beef feeders out of London, you know, these guys were the guards for the kings, you know, they gave them extra meat because I know they would fight better. The, you know, the mongles, you know, they just decimated, you know, all through Asia. They basically just ate their horses in their meat. That's what they did when I traveled with that, you know, and so you've got all these historical examples of people performing better. You know, they were, they were known to have this incredible work capacity, and all they, you know, they was sealed meat and and reindeer and stuff like that.

So I do. I'll tell you what to do. So today, I mean, you know, eating well as something, you know, generally either one meal or two meals depending on what my workout training is going to be. So this morning, you know, because I knew I was coming up here. I trained earlier in the morning. Well, it's fast. Yeah, I said a new record. By the way, my personal record is doing that. But I had a couple New York strips. I had about two pounds, so.

Let me turn it.

I mean, that's two pounds of meat. You know, it took me a lot of build up to this before, you know, like a pound of meat would be, you know, to be tough. No, I can put down. four pounds at one time.

Yeah, that makes the stuff you eat with it. I mean, you know, I'm just, uh, You know, I put, like I said on that Instagram page, I've got, you know, meet exercise and do and stuff and, you know, pictures and stuff.

Someone, you know, statistically, we know they're more likely to smoke, they're more likely to drink, they're more likely not to wear their seat belt, they're more likely to be an accident, they're more likely not to go to their doctor, they're not, they're more likely just not to care. So you've got, that's what it means. Why is that? Because people, because if I tell you, as I say, Joe eating meat's bad for you, and you say, if you, I don't care, I don't care about my health, right? So you just don't care. So this is it, so they can't separate that out, so they've got All these studies where they try to separate it out and say, well, kind of, we'll kind of even up the smokers, but they never can take that, I don't give it up. I don't give a fuck. Right, thing out of it. So you've got this stuff, and then all the studies are really, really low strength. So if we look at, you know, and we can talk about this about me being a causing cancer, because there's concern about that with colon cancer. But if we look at smoking, you know, when they determine that smoking cause cancer, the epidemiology showed a 2,000% increase in the incidence of cancer in a lot of studies. When they compare that to meat in cancer, they found an 18% increase, which is nothing. It's like it doesn't even matter. 18% is in high. Not when you look at relative risk. So if you're risk of getting colon cancer is one or say your risk of getting colon cancer is five in a million right and now it's six in a million I mean it's like nothing I mean it's like it is so minor but if your risk is going from five in a million to 300 in a million then you're like well that's pretty powerful right so it depends on the incident so if it's really loaded begin with and you only raise it by tiny amount it's so small and so what we know There was a guy named Bradford Hill who talked about statistical correlations on when the things actually matter and not to you get to 200% or 300% does it even matter? You can't draw any conclusion from that.

Yeah.

Yeah. Some, some longer. Right. So instead of being 18% more likely, you're 200% more likely. Right.

Right. So you would have to double or triple your risk. Okay. 18% is not double or triple. Right. We're only putting it up by a fraction. Right. So when you when you separate all that stuff out and then you know there was a you know the World Health Organization two years ago last year two years ago declared that red meat was a class two carcinogen a process meets was a class one carcinogen you know they said it's like plutonium and smoking and you know, everyone runs all over the place with that. Why did they do that? So here's what they do that. So first of all, and you can go on their website and they'll tell you what their conclusions were. So this was done by an organization called the International Association for Research on Cancer. They're based out of the own France. And they are, you know, that's what the World Health Organization uses to determine their stuff. And so they're written, and this is, you know, besides the point right now, the IRC is under investigation by US Congress for using crappy science and, you know, promoting political agenda. So I don't know if that's true or not. Part of that's generated by probably big corporations. It don't like their findings. But so they're under investigation for that. But what they say is we have some weak epidemiology, which is 18% stop. But we think we have some strong mechanistic reasons for this, right? So if everybody, you know, there's a doctor named George E. E. D. E. Who's a psychiatrist out in Maryland, who's got this just tremendous. She analyzed the whole thing. She has a website called DiagnosisDiet.com. So she did an analyst analysis of all the 800 studies they used. And she found that what they ended up doing is most of them showed that meat didn't cause cancer. There was a small percentage that they looked at all these rat studies. And there was about 20. 225 rat studies and they found like three or four of them showed meat you know if we gave this type of cancer if we gave this rat a certain, you know, amount of meat, and we genetically bread them. And we gave them a medicine that makes them get cancer that they get a little bit of change in their coal that might turn into cancer. What medicine makes them get cancer? Oh, I don't remember. There's something there. There's a special way to make rats get cancer. So they have this model that makes them get cancer really, really easy.

Well, because they want to make it, they want to be able You know, they want to differentiate this quick as possible because they've got to use a million rats and I see what you're saying. It's the real fast way to show up the cancer, but the problem with that and she explains it very well is that we don't know that they would get cancer. It's not shown and the other thing we talked about this before is that if you want to look at rat studies and it's not to say that plants give you cancer, but there are

52, they kept tested 27. I'm sure these are just normal food that we eat on daily basis. So it's not to scare people out of eating that stuff. But it's just saying that's how much BS stuff is based upon it.

Right. And they also feed them sugar with it. You know, so it's kind of like It's just the way they do it. You can extrapolate. Does that really matter to humans or not?

We're not rats. It's interesting. It's the same thing when we talked about cancer rates and historical populations. They didn't have much cancer. Until we started feeding them in the 1940s and stuff like that. Until we started feeding them all our crap that they started to get those diseases.

Yeah, I think it's, you know, this is what I think is, I think we're all, you know, this is one of the things that people talk about there's like, you know, everybody's so different. We have all this different genetics. We all need special diets. I tend to say that, you know, in certain circumstances that makes sense, but I think, you know, evolutionary, you know, we sort of split from primates, you know, we share the common ancestor with, you know, primates, chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas. somewhere 8 to 10 million years ago. We don't know for sure, you know, it's back and then, and so what happens is, you know, the human, the pre-humans kind of went one way and then the apes and chimpanzees went up to swim, went up into the trees. And if you look at, you know, even the difference between a chimp and an ape, you know, an ape, not an ape, a gorilla, a gorilla crushes all these, you know, these all, really fibers food, lots of fibers, stuff like that. chimpanzees can't tolerate that as well because they're they're colon got a little smaller. Well the humans colon's got a way way smaller, right? And so what happened is why you and I can throw a rock really far, you know, in a chimpanzee, you know, chimpanzee, you can throw, you know, if you give a chimpanzee a baseball, you can throw it about 20 miles an hour, it's not very strong. You and I can throw a baseball, you know, 60 miles an hour average guy, you know, if you, you know, majorly baseball players are throwing that 95 plus, right? The reason we evolve to do that is because we are throwing shit in animals we are hunting, right? That's what drove, I mean, our scapula is rotated. You know, if you look at a chimpanzee scapula, it's, you know, on the side, it allows in the current climb trees and do this stuff. And so these strong climate-based evolutionary pressures, which drove us to saying, you know, there's, you know, there's all this ice-aid stuff going on. The, the climate's drying out, the fruits and the jungles are going away now. It's all this grassland. And, you know, there's not much heat in the grassland, you know, except for some animals. You know, people eat some bugs and stuff like that for a while. And that's what, you know, chimpanzees. Even chimpanzees. You know, 3% of their diet. You know, there's a lot of people say we're frugivores and always she eats fruit. But even chimpanzees, you eat about 3% of their diet comes from killing other animals. I mean, you know, there's this red cob, it's monkey, somewhere in Uganda or somewhere in Africa. The chimpanzees are hunting this thing to extinction. They're there. They're good little hunters.

I mean, and you know, you think about their brain is not even half as big as ours. I mean, so when human sort of nothing, that's I think it's pretty clear that what drove a lot of our evolution, our ability to communicate, to strategize, you know, some of the anatomic things was based around hunting. I mean, hunting. I know you're a big hunter, Jill, and I know it's not an easy thing to do. You've got to think a lot. You know, you've got to be pretty smart at smarty animals, especially when you're in big groups and back then when they've got, you know, I got it spears, basically. You know, you look at, uh, there's a population in Central Europe called the Gravettians, right? So if you look at population markers for nutrition, right? The one of the things I look at is population height. So if there's a real tall population, it means that they had a really good nutrition. And so if you look at the tallest people that probably ever lived were these curve veterans, these guys were just decimating mammoths. I mean, they were so efficient at killing mammoths. And so that's probably basically all they ate, you know, for the most part, they might have a little bit of vegetables. But they were, they were, their appetite was like six foot two. And this is like 30,000 years ago. That's crazy. So these people have been giants. They were giants. And so the people that have sort of genetically are related to those people now are the people from Croatia and the Netherlands, which are again the tallest people in the world. The only other group that rivaled that are the melodic Africans, which are like the what to see in the side, which are all about six feet tall in average, and their diet is primarily, as we know, livestock based, and then the other tall population historically were the planes Indians, particularly the shy and injured Indians, and they just lived mostly Buffalo, so it's kind of... It's got interesting as far as what's the best food for nutrition. You know, that's what I'm finding from a performance standpoint. You know, it's just what make me feel the best thing.

You know, I don't, you know, I just, you know, I kind of, you know, just, I mean, well, I won't say I take some salt, you know, salt my meat. You know, I'll have some Himalayan salt or some regular salt.

Yeah, man. You get pretty good at cooking steaks. Yeah, so I'll either reverse here, you know, you know, I don't you know, a reverse here. Reverse here steak.

Yeah, I do like it's like about meeting rare and then I throw it in the pan for a couple minutes and seared up and they need it or I'll start on the grill. You know, it depends where I'm wearing it from California. I got a grill here, shot through one of the grill from back, you know, and another new Mexico, I'll do it, I'll do it, I don't have a grill there, so I do that, but that takes a couple minutes to do it.

Yeah, so I mean, it depends, you know, it depends on, you know, again, how much I'm probably eating more than the average person that does this diet than I'm aware of. She only goes about two pounds of meat and so they can do a day a day right and so a lot of people you know people that are that are you know don't have the blood you'll just do like ground beef and stuff like that and you can do you can eat two pounds of ground beef for you know under ten bucks a day which is right way you know two cups of Starbucks you know something like that so it's actually not that bad for a lot of people

Yeah. So I mean, I think I have a concern. I think people that eat meat should be concerned about and where the ones that primarily need to make sure that's not happening. So I think, as you know, I would argue that, you know, Since evolution began humans have been eating meat, and that's just what happens in nature. If you look at how an animal is killing a wild animal, if a lion takes down a zebra, it's not a pleasant experience for that animal. Most of the way that humans kill these animals now, from a human, is pretty darn human. Even as a hunter, if you hit an animal and you don't hit them in a right spot, You got to track him down and he's going to be going to make take an hour or longer.

No, no, it was killed. Yeah, I agree with that too. And so I think that you know, you have to look at, you know, if the animals like you've got chickens and cages and they can't turn around, right? And they're just cramped in there. That's awful. That shouldn't be a lot. one of the reasons they put chicken in case because I'll peck the hell out of each other you know if you have an animal that you're you know because I talk a lot of cattle ranchers and most of them I mean most of them they really care about their animals around the snow and the rain making sure their animals are fed making sure they're sheltered you know if animal goes down or taking care of that so you know there's probably some bad apples out there and if we know about that stuff and some vegan documentary guy wants to make them film about that then yeah those guys should be saying hey don't mistreat your animals you know don't You know, intentionally hurt them. Don't have them standing in a pile of crap, you know, giving some, you know, fresh air and some ability to move. But, you know, you know, if you look cows or animals in a while, they're hurt animals anyway. So they hang out together anyway. It's not like if they're indoors. Now if they're indoors and they've got, you know, room to move around and they go in and go out. I think that's a big issue. And so I think you have to kind of, you know, you can't just make it all black and white. Right. There's some people that are good at it. Some people are bad. The bad ones need to be may not do that anymore. I mean, it doesn't change the fact that we only need to eat.

Yeah, so I think I think you know I think you're right in the fact that if you say what is the most nutrient dense? What is the best quality I can get grass fed grass finishes it's going to fill that bill now if you compare that to something that was fed corn right and given hormones and given antibiotics and what else they do yeah so you know you got those things and it's fed you know grain the difference nutritionally compared to, you know, because if you don't have any money and you can't afford this stuff, compared to the rest of the crap in the supermarket, is, you know, so, so I use an, I use a MMA analogy for you. So, if grass fed grain fed beef is, you know, condom ring ring or GSP, right? Then this other stuff is, say, some guy who's like the number of three contenders, something like that. Really? It's that, that close. The difference is, you know, because you look at hormones in beef. So, you don't need hormones in your meat, right?

So you're in your grass fed, even though even the elk you kill, you've got hormones and that stuff because the animal makes it. Of course. So you're getting a very low level. And so what they do is they give those animals up generally the same hormones. It increases the percentage a little bit more compared to what you and I make normally so if they If we look at nanograms, you know, maybe, you know, I can't remember the numbers exactly, but the scale is what's important. So if they give you grass fed beef gives you five nanograms of estrogen, okay? Green fed beef gives you 10 nanograms of estrogen, and then you compare it to eggs, which give you maybe 90, and you compare it to dairy, which gives you 110, and then you compare it to, you know, if you look at phytoestrogens, You know, that's in the millions, right? So things like soybeans and stuff like that. And then you compare it to what is your body naturally make? And that's like 30 or 40,000. And so it's a really small level. So I think if you can afford grass fit and grain fit, you know, I'm not saying how can you solve the world's problem. But I think if you're just, we just isolate for health only. Say you're a poor guy and all you can afford is, you know, I can't afford this grass fit. I mean, I can't afford 20 bucks a pound for this stuff, right? And butcher box is still too expensive for me. then that's probably still a better option than going back and eating, you know, the other crap, the other crap, the Cheetos and all this other stuff and even though, you know, like the organic fruits and stuff like that, you know, it's expensive for people. So I mean, I think it's, you know, like I said, depends on who your audience is, you know, if you've got unlimited resources and most people don't, then you have to say what's, you know, what's You know, from a health standpoint, what is most affordable and what's practical? How do I get my health back? Because this is, you know, I don't like I said, I don't really, I'm not like saying this is the best diet in the world for everybody. I'm just saying you need to find out what works for you.

Right. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, right? So if you're saying I want to be as good as I possibly can be, then I said probably grass fed grain fed and grass fed is probably better. If you're like saying I'm just sick and I don't want to be sick anymore, then I'd say get what you can afford.

Well, I think it's, you know, so this is another sort of misconception. So I think a lot of it's extremely well absorbed in our body. I mean, look at the end result of why we, what do we do when we're eating? Okay. What's the end result? We eat for two reasons. We eat to get energy and to build animal tissue. I mean, you and I are animals. We're animal tissue. The most efficient way to do that is just to eat something because your body has, it has, it says everything in the proportions that we need it. Right. Right. And it's, you know, it's a misconception. You know, when you hear a lot of people say, you know, if you get to be a bunch of me, it's going to sit there and rot in your intestines and it's going to put your fine stuff like that. So, they've done studies on people who have had heliostomies and these are people who have had their coloners, right? So you've had colon cancer, you know, inflammatory bowel disease, like Crohn's disease, where they take out your whole colon and now you've got a little bag which you poop into a little bag, right? So they've looked at people and they've looked at what comes out when they eat meat. almost nothing comes out. There's a little bit of liquid, right? So that means all that meat is being absorbed, you know, but when you get a much of fiber and vegetables and plants, all that stuff goes up in the back because you can't digest it. You've got to have to have bacteria in your colon to do that. And humans are not really good at it compared to other primates. We're really bad at it. What about probiotics? So I think probiotics, you know, And the microbiome is fascinating. And there's a lot of research going on. There's a lot of people just talking all about this and how it affects your health. One of the things that we, we try to say is, how do we define a healthy microbiome? You can't yet. We just don't know enough. There are, you know, we can't even, we don't even know everything about the human body. And then to put in tens of billions of different bacteria, all different species and say, this is a perfect combination. That's perfect. And we're so far away from knowing that we're in the very infancy of what that means. So what I would say is if you're healthy, you know, if your joints don't hurt, if everything's going good, then probably by definition, your microbiome is fine. If you're eating just a meat-based diet, your microbiome is going to be different in the probiotics, or probably not going to make a difference for you. But if you're eating, again, if you're eating a crappy diet, You know, and you're feeding your skin. You've got a bunch of sugar. You're going to get this dysbiosis, which is bad bacteria. And then, you know, maybe the probiotics might help in that situation. I'm not convinced, you know, I just don't think there's enough evidence to show that that's a big deal.

I mean, that potentially could be the case.

Well, it is. I mean, you're your microbiome reacts to whatever you do. How much sleep you get, how much exercise you do, how much you eat, you know, how much stress is in your life, it's just very, very adaptable. It can change in the day. Right. You know, so whatever you're feeding it chronically is going to change with what bacteria live there. So, you know, it's like this thing about, you know, again, back to this meat, future faction thing. So, if we look at the definition of future faction, here it sounds awful, right? It's future fine, right? Future faction is the actyre of bacteria on protein, right? So, protein gets in your colon, it'll future fry, right? So, again, when we go back to these early estimates patients, they study people that were getting soy protein and meat, and guess which one had more protein going into the colon? soy protein. Yeah. So eating a bunch of soy means stuff means more proteins going in your colon and you're getting more future facts in that way.

Well, I mean, there's a lot of people think so. I mean, there's some studies that support that I don't know for sure. I mean, I don't I don't think so is it particularly good food for us? I know some people will say that fermented soy, you know, is it a little better?

I think it's an Asian type thing, but, you know, I think that, you know, there's certainly some people that I think there's a lot of associations. Guys getting got to come ask you and stuff like that from eating too much.

They're supposedly, I don't know for sure. I can't say for sure.

So I'm going to, you know, I seriously doubt I will not eat a ton of meat. You know, I just think I feel too good. I mean, I think I want to feel good and perform as good as I can for as long as I can. So whether I say, and this is what I tell people, you know, do it for a couple months because this is one of the problems so many people have health problems and I think a lot of it's food related and it's really hard to sort that out you know if you're eating a hundred different types of food which one is it I don't know I'm going to drop this out right so and it's obviously variable in terms of like your own individual biology right so but I mean when you drop down and just meet then it's pretty easy to say okay I'm waiting me now if I add fruit back in does that eff me up or not you know if it does and I'm like man I shouldn't probably eat that right if I bury back in so probably there'll be a point When I'll say, hey, I'm a, you know, maybe once a while I have a, you know, half some berries again, you know, and then just see how I do with that. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. There are a lot of people I'll tell you that so she's guys have been doing it for five, eight, 10, 15 years. I mean, they're like me and that stuff. That screws me up and I don't want to do that.

I had a few people up, but I pulled him off, which one? The guy that he was saying. Joe Anderson, Joe Anderson.

It was, uh, if you go on my Instagram, there is about, I don't know, about a month or two ago. I've got a picture I put up for these people. These are all people that have done it for a total of 55 years. Oh, okay. And there's one guy's a marathon runner. And then these other two couple that have been doing it for 20 years and other gathers and other gathers and Kelly Hogan that she was like big mortalial beast woman and she went on a carnival don't she's not for eight years and she got super lean she was totally infertile couldn't have kids, right? Super lean cardboard at three kids later. Happy is can be all she does is eats hamburgers every day. I mean, that's right. I mean, it's it's, you know, the stories I get, you know, this is because now I'm this kind of central point. I get all these crazy crazy stories of people just from talking about it online just from talking.

Well, it's kind of like a little movement. And I think what you'll see over the next year or two, there's going to be a lot more people doing this, just to try it. You know, and I think, you know, it's a crazy, some people are going to do it just to say, hey, it's cool. I'm going to be a carnivore. I'm just going to screw around. But I think there's people that honestly are doing it, and they're really seriously improving their health. And I think whatever works is what you should do.

I agree.

Well, if we look at historically, I mean, you know, we didn't start consuming dairy at all about 12,000 years. Go in and start farming till about the same time. So those things are in real clippin' novel. you know we didn't start eating all this process stuff all about a hundred you know Chris go came on nineteen ten or something like it's all that crap we've invented in the last centering and then then when the high fructose corn syrup came in the seventies all this stuff our human body just has involved for yet so i think we're doing we're getting seriously messed up uh... that stuff yeah and if you look at the change in our diet is a corresponding uptick and diabetes and all sorts of other obesity factors and health issues

This is interesting because there's actually a guy named Perry. He R. R. Y. Just studying 2014. He did colonoscopy. So he actually looked in people that was one of the first ones to do this. And he looked at people on these diets and he found that the people that ate the highest amount of fiber and had the most bowel movements had the most incidence of diverticculosis. So diverticculosis precedes diverticulitis. So diverticulitis is a little pouched that shoots out from your colon. So it's like a little sack. So what happens is that eventually gets infected and then you get diverticulitis. With the people that were developing diverticulosis, the most in his study he did to her three like this. show the ones that are eating much of fiber and there's also studies on so that fiber gets caught or something is potentially so the question is what other thing people don't understand you know because a lot of people want to talk about ketogenic diets and they cut out their fiber like you're getting all constipated right I mean, you know, so I basically haven't had a bowel movement in a year. You know, it's got, yeah, it's not true, obviously. But so what happens is you just don't make anything. I mean, you, you know, all that meat, it goes right into your small intestines. It's worth some next to nothing, gets to your colon and so it looks, you know, there's nothing, there's hardly anything.

Yeah, that's the thing like John Wayne and stuff like that. But what happens is, what was the story? Well, he died with a colon full of stuff, but they said he wouldn't. Well, but I mean, who knows? It's probably it wasn't me, you know, look, look at this, Joe. If you go to the bathroom and you get a bunch of corn, and you look down there sometimes there's some corn floating around.

When's the last time you saw a piece of steak floating around in the toilet bone? It's a total myth. And so when we talk about what causes constipation is probably a neurologic thing. It's probably a neuromuscular thing. So the colon is not correct contracting correctly. It may have to do with electrolyte deficiency.

All right, so you're not constipating. You're just, you're just putting your stuff in, you're just shoving more stuff through the tube.

Well, you're getting a bunch of liquid fibers, getting a little cold in life. What's cleansed all out? Makes you feel good, though. Well, it may be, you know, there's some people do it, but there's no real prize for the most bought. When you get the end of your life, you're not going to get an award for more having more about moments. You don't, you don't, you don't. Shit. Are you sure? Well, I'm not 100% sure, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. So, but that's lied to again.

Yeah, there's no doubt the more fiber eat, the more babbles you're gonna have, but what happens is if you get constipated and there's another study about this, they looked at people with chronic constipation, they were always constipated and the only thing that helped them was taking all fiber out of their diet. Really.

Metabucyl. Metabucyl. Metabucyl. Metabucyl. Yeah. Is that like, yeah. Yeah. But what happens is what you have is you've got a neuromuscular problem where the colon is not contracting the right way. And so you're blacked up and then you just shove more fiber in there and it just fills up more and more. And eventually you just can maybe you might be able to force it all through. But that's not, you know, how that's, you know, it's a lot of people will say that I will tell you there's a lot of people that will tell me fiber just jacks up their intestines. I mean, they feel awful when they take a lot of fiber.

Yeah, I mean, it was available. I mean, you know, I'm pretty happy with with with beef, but I mean, when I was I was in France earlier this year, and I had just a bunch of lamb, you know, that's that's easier to get. I'll have some time without chicken. You know, I haven't a game anymore. I haven't get a game since I've started this, but I used to have me now to go for a deer and you know, chillies and stews and stuff like that. So that's fine.

Yeah, I just find it. There's a lot of people like me that do this. They just find chicken is not as satisfying. It's just it's probably not as nutritious.

It's probably not. I think it's just harder.

Your whole body goes like, oh, I think that's a primitive thing that goes back a hundred thousand years. I mean, that's like the point of You know, all that's hunting we did, and it's just what kind of satisfies us.

That's what we're looking at. I think it's a primal thing. I think it's just like this is satisfaction.

All right. So, you know, I was, you know, like I said, I'll just go to my background a little bit. So I, you know, I go to medical school, you know, I go to, you know, degree in biology, then I go to medical school, then I drop out of medical school to play professional rugby, you know, I just kind of crazy, crazy career. that I go into the military and launch nuclear bombs for you know five years you know nuclear bombs yeah I was a nuclear bomb launch officer for about five years or do you still launch nuclear bombs well I mean up and Wyoming in Nebraska and Colorado and they actually detonate them no no that's where that's where you shoot them from Right.

No, it was a guy that if we went to war, it says we want a new North Korea out of him and the guy that goes moon. Right. So I did that. So you know, they do all this crazy psychological screening to make sure you're not some psychopath. You know, so I'm this like straight ethical guy that's just like, you know, good, you know, just a good solid guy that's top secret clearance and all this stuff. So I do all this stuff. So then I go play rugby and then I get tired of getting my head kicked in. You know, I was playing I remember my last match as putting it some Russian team. I'm laying on the ground and it just came off on my head kicking me in the head. I got bloods coming out of my ears and I'm like, I'm 30 years old. I'm like, F and I'm gonna go back to medical school. So I go back to medical school with military pays for at this time. Then, you know, I do my time, you know, go through, go through school, go through my training, I graduate, top, you know, write it, top my class in medical school, because get in orthopedics, you got to be like, it's one of the real competitive fields, you got to be really at the top of the class to do that. So I do that stuff, do all my training, boss my ass, do really well, get all these awards and training, then I get to the military and then they send me to war, right? So they send me to Afghanistan. And this is, if it's okay, I'll get to tell you a little bit about this. So I'm, you know, I come out of training that line of training. And me and this other dude is named Tom Large. He's excellent, excellent surgeon. Good. One thing is a great guy. Great people. Me and him are the only two guys at the main center in Afghanistan. So you fly out there. It takes you about three days. You go to Bangor main and these old ladies give you lobster biscuits on the way out. It's kind of cool. Then you fly in a turkey and then we sat there for like six hours on a runway. When let us move, when let us off the plane, then they fly us into courage to stand, which is, there used to be part of the soviet season. So we've got a U.S. base, and we'll use the soviet union. So we stay there for one, it's freezing cold. And then we get on this C-130, which is a military plane, you know, you pack in there with the cargo, and you fly in Afghanistan. They're shooting at, just they turn off the lights, so that you know, hopefully they don't hit you. They're shooting at you as you come in. So we get in there. And then I get off the plane and then they put you in this giant hall with like 300 guys on cuts. First night and then we go to the first day to go to work, right? And we're taking over from the army. And I was in the air force at the time. So we're taking over from the army. The first thing I rolls in is just poor. I remember this thing. It was like welcome to fucking war. There was a guy, Canadian guy. He was 23-year-old kid. His special forces guy, you know, full beard because, you know, the special forces guys were weird because it was so they could blend in, right? Both legs blown right off. I mean, what can I call it? Holy shit. You know, so this is like this is stuff that's got real. So every day. Oh, boom, boom, Trump crazy, Trump. We would get people blown up by bombs. I mean, their whole their legs are being on. I mean, the second third day we got there. We had a kid. He was 17-year-old. And this is an anime. We were taking their enemies too, right? He's setting up a roadside bomb to kill our guys, right? He's from his 17-year-old kid from Pakistan. He blows himself up. He blows up both his legs above the knee. blows off one of his arms and most of his hands. So he's basically, I mean, he's got nothing left. So we're operating on this guy. We do all these operations. It's basically say the kid's wife, even though he's an enemy because there's a physician you just, that's just your job. So what happens to this guy is so we fix him up, it takes us, you know, month to get him stabilized and they take him out the gate, they have to get an army just goes and shoots him in the head. Well, I think we're like, fuck, you know, we're like, what the hell are we doing here? You know, it's like we're doing all this work and they've gotten kill these people.

They knew he was an enemy and so, you know, they don't play games. They don't play games and so in this happened the other way too round. That seemed like a lot of wasted money. It is. It's a waste and it's heartbreaking, you know, you didn't there and so we're getting, I'm getting these people there, blown up by rockets or whole world.

It's not even as fall. This is a thing. A lot of them, you know, is a Taliban at the time. And these guys are like, you know, if you don't come fight for us, we're going to kill your family. So a lot of these little kids are out there doing this. They don't know what they want to do. It's not going to be guys. So you kind of do. I mean, it's like, you know, it's like, hey, you know, it's not my job to punish these people. It's my job to take care of these people.

We're like, what happened to him? You know, we heard about several our patients has happened to us. It's pretty pretty frustrating. So we get in there and there's like people like I mean little kids we're getting these little kids to three year old kids stepping on landmines legs blown off. We had one little three year old kid. I mean he was I mean he was I mean, somebody drug him behind a truck for like a mile. And they drug this kid through the streets to the rough asphalt street. And it is legs fucking ripped off. I mean, his kids rode rash. Actually, his legs ripped off. He was barrened everywhere. And we're in a trade and his stuff. Why did they do that? No, I don't know. Just bad at their parents. I don't know. This is not a life friendly place, right? This is life is inconsequential there. There was a guy. There was our, but we had a pediatrician who was talking to this guy. He was a farmer, right? and he was telling us about his tractor, right? He was real proud of his tractor's real expensive, have a tractor in there. So what he would do, because tractor's real valuable, he would have his kids walking for another tractor, so they'd been hitting landmines.

So if your kid had, he's like, I can make another kid. I can't afford it. So this is the mentality there. You know, it's just God.

So we get it.

I mean, it would be, it would be, it would be awful. Oh, Jesus Christ. So we get this stuff. And then what's, you know, just getting this, this keeps getting worse. I mean, it's like every day. We get these people with You know, they're blown up in there. You're looking at their hip sock. You're like a guy's lander with a leg completely gone. You can see a spine, his hip sock, it day in and day out, we're seeing this stuff. We had this one. We had so he's had, you remember Dick Cheney was a vice president, right? Yeah. So he flies into the base, right? And it was supposed to be secret. No one's supposed to know about it, but that, that telebound guy's found out about it, right? So what they do is they go to our gate, set off a suicide mom, and they just kill, I mean, tons of people. And we get all of these casualties, most of them are civilians, right? So we get all these civilian casualties, little kids and adults. And they're suicide vests. They put all these more, you know, like these metal bearings, you know, like half inch thick metal bearings. and they cover them up and cover them shit. So they infected and they blow through people. I mean, you get people with stuff going through their brains and shattered bones everywhere and all these people that are just, you know, dying. So it's chaos. You know, all these people get swarmed and they're we're getting this stuff all the time. This was the base when we had it. And so we were, I mean, we literally 40 hours straight you're working. You know, you're trying to save people alive. You know, I'm operating with a general surgeon and people's bellies, which I'm not trying to do, but I'm just helping you're trying to do this stuff. So in the middle of this operation, we're in there operating, you know, take, trying to take care of these people. And you're writing the operating room is just a little, I mean, it's like a little metal storage building, you know, it's like a little, like a little, like a little, like if you're moving, you know, those little pods things, you know, so they stick a couple of Operating beds in there. We're going as fast as we're wearing body armor. We have nine millimeter strap to us and we're operating. It's hard to move around. It's real small and we're sitting in there and they say, hey guys, we think there's another bomber inside the hospital. You know, in the hospital people off. So you're sitting there going, you know, your butt hole tightens up and you're like, well, fuck, I gotta keep operating. You know, because I'm trying to say this guy's wife. So we keep we just like, well, we're gonna go. We're gonna go. All right. So we just keep you know, we keep operating. Fortunately, you know, they didn't, they thought they did. Somebody snuck in as a casualty. So they sometimes do that. They blow people up. And then they sneak in as a casualty and blow more people up. Oh, that changed. So it's like, you know, it's kind of freaky. And so I, you know, I was like, what an insane environment. How long were you there for? Six months. Yeah. Yeah, so that's pretty crazy stuff. We get out of there and it was just a tremendous experience. It was just like, because there was nothing I could see that after that, it was like that and nothing. Everything I saw after that, I just sergeant was like, this is no big deal, right? So then I get out and then I get out of the military. I do another five years. Just take care of normal guys in military, right? You're taking your troops and stuff like that. Doing fine. I work for all these other hospitals and did fine. I never had any problems. Then I get to this other hospital. I join this group and they make me the head of the group. When I got there, they were like two guys and they weren't doing hardly any business at all. I was like really slow. No one knew they were there. You know, they were in part of this big huge group had all these other Dr. Bating. No, they existed. So I got there and I said, well, this is crap. And one of the reasons because no one was seeing anything that refused all these space. Now I got there and I said, hey, man, I'm going to go talk to all these other doctors and let them know we're alive that we're here. And that we're going to see anything you want to send us. And we'll take care of it. And if we can't, we'll make sure it gets taken care of the right way. So that happened. And then we started growing. Right. So we went from two guys to 12 guys in about three years. And so and we were very, very busy real busy group. And then the rival group from out of town from across the street. didn't want to like it that much could we were taking millions of dollars from I mean tens of millions of dollars in their business right because orthopedic surgery is very very lucrative for a hospital you know things like cardiology where they're putting in stents and served all these procedure based practices make a lot of money for hospital so they really like it right so they're really happy and they're happy with me I'm like the You know, I'm like the hero, right? Cause you're like, man, you're making us a lot of money. The group across town doesn't like me very much because I'm taking all their money away. And so they approached us and they said, you know, why don't you join our group? You know, we'll take care of you. And I said, no, I don't want to do that. But two of my partners did, they eventually left. So I'm the only holdout guy. But I'm still going. I'm still building the group. And so I'm like the head, I'm like the head of the snake, the rival, right? But here's what's kind of happen. So I'm busy. I'm doing well. My patients are happy. I'm doing really well. I've got a low real low complication rates. You know, you know, everybody's, you know, I'm very popular. You know, I'm on billboards, I'm on magazines, I'm on radios. You know, I'm, you know, I'm just, I'm just their poster board, basically, right? So then as I found with my diet, I started seeing patients getting better by just changing their diet. And when you look in the orthopedics, you know, like bone disease, like arthritis, there's nothing about diet in there. I mean, you were study about it. If somebody comes in your office, you'll tell them, you know, we can give you some Tylenol, we can give them you some, you know, another anti-inflammatory drug. We can, we can, we can six of cord is known in your knee. You know, if that doesn't work, maybe we'll, you know, we'll finish, send you to physical therapy. We might put a scope in there. And if none of that works, you know, this is an end stage and we're going to replace your knee, right? So what I was finding, you know, as I started doing this with patients, is that these patients are getting better just by changing or not, putting more on a ketogenic diet, the time I was doing keto. So I was like, hey, man, try this. So my, in my nurse and I had this, and this is one of the things that kind of, I'm very jaded about the way the business side of medicine is now. This is a pretty pretty interesting experience for me. So I had a nurse, it was just, I mean, she was a wonderful person. I mean, the nicest sweetest gal in the world. She would work so hard for these patients. She would take care of you know anything you needed on Nutella. Hey, take care and she was just awesome, right? The hospital said you're staying in too late and we're having to pay you over time. She's like, well, I'm taking care of patients. Well, we don't care. I don't want you to work late because it costs us too much money. So it's just like There's only things where you're starting to see that, you know, it's all about the money and then we were like, so all these surgeons, you know, as a certain, you get used to using certain equipment, you know, it's like, you know, I'm using this particular thing to replace people and joints and you do it for years and years and years and you get pretty good at it. And so what the hospital said is, hey, we got a bargain deal with this other company, so you're going to use that. You know, we're like, no, we don't use that. We learn how to use this when you're not to use that stuff. So they force everybody to do this, you know, just to say, you know, some new surgical equipment, is that what you're saying? Yeah, they will basically, you know, there's a system. It's like, if you drive a four truck your whole life, you know, zero, I understand what you're saying. Yeah. And then they say, no, you're going to go, I'm shaving that. Right. But this is surgical. This is sort of messed up. This is sort of, the whole reason is that we're going to save you money and all this for pitching. The ones you guys were already using, like, I don't care. And this is the other group. We don't care. But our group was like, We don't use this stuff, man. It's stuff we don't even know how to use. It's good. You're not adapted to it. You're not adapting. You're going to compromise person care a little bit for this. So, you know, this is one of the things where I was very vocal. I was like, man, I don't, you know, this is this is what we're trained on. You know, we're going to end up, you know, there's going to be patients going to be problematic from this stuff. So that was an aside thing. And then there was a system where, so another thing, they put in the, you know, this is one thing that all physicians hate. This is something called an electronic medical record. You know, it's a computer-based record, not that it's a computer-based thing, but they're awful. I mean, they sit there and their main function is to collect billing and to do coding. So it's a capture as much information as you can so you can build more, right? That's, that's, you know, why cost a little like them? So they put this on you and it's like, You know, no, it's like really hard to take, you know, to put good information there, because all it is is generate a bunch of data that's totally eligible. You can't you look at it. It's like you get 20 pages of BS and two paragraphs of stuff you need, right?

So then we, so basically what happened is when I started telling piece people, I don't want to, you know, I'm starting to start talking people out of surgery, right? I started saying, I don't think you need surgery and then I started talking to the administrators and say, hey guys, I really want to spend a day a week just doing livestock counseling. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, You know, constantly do this because I think this can work really well.

So they're basically said, no, there's no appetite for that. Your skill is a certain we want you there. In other words, keep making us a lot of money. So I'm like, you know, you know, and my nurse will take me. I was printing out. I've made a list of all this reading. You remember, like you read, I know you had Gary Todd's on it. I had his book and I had, and he had a tackle says book on it. I had this kind of butterbop, rigs, you know, all these ketogenic things references. And I was handing them out 20, 25 of them every single day. And I was spending time with the patients, you know, because normally you don't get like eight minutes to see a patient, you know, figure out the problem, figure out plan, go, go, go. And I was like, no, I spent 20 minutes talking to you guys about diet. And so, you know, that I'm seeing last patients and the hospital keeps saying, you know, you know, we don't really like that. So because I was ahead of the group and I was well-liked by everybody, I had really good patient records. I mean, really good patient satisfaction, you know, really little complication rates. I mean, they were like, well, we don't like that. So then they go, there's something called peer review, right? So they can just pull your records and say, we don't like the way you did this. And, you know, we're going to, we're going to criticize your work. And so they did that and they went through there. And this is one of the things they said, well, Every surgeon will have X amount of complications, right? It's like, you know, if you do, you know, 100 surgeries, about 5% of the time there's going to be some complications. Somebody's going to get an infection. Somebody's going to bleed too much. Somebody's going to get a blood clot. You know, if it's an orthopedic surgeon, maybe one of the screws you put in breaks, some like those things are all complications that happens to everybody, no matter what. So what they said is there's a low threshold, right? There's like a, you know, we're gonna say every year we're gonna give you two complications that were your fault, right? Because most of the time you have a complication, it's like matters not that could have done equipment failure. Yeah, so they'll say you made their own decision that little complicate. So they'll say you can get two a year, right? And it doesn't matter if you do 100 surgeries a year or you do 500 surgeries a year. The number is still two, right? I'm like, You know, because I was there for like five years and like every year was like one, one, one, one, one, just nothing metal, all right. One year, one year they go back so you had three this year. I'm like, yeah, but I do five times as many surgeries as anybody else. And I said, it doesn't matter. We're gonna, we're gonna still put it to peer review. So what they do is a higher, remember this other group that I was pissing off and is taking $10 million a year from, they hire there, got that guy to look through my stuff.

Because that's what they wanted to do.

because he was in the position to do it. And that's not supposed to happen. It'd be like if you were a Bellator guy and I said, I want the Bellator guy to review the UFC. I think Joe Rogan sucks as an announcer. I'm going to have a Bellator guy go after him. So it's a total conflict of interest. And I'm like this naive ethical guy that's like, well, I know I could care and rest as we're doing fine. You know, I was just like, okay, well, okay, that's fine. And so, they get it back in the guy and they looked, they looked it, it doesn't cases, they've selected, you know, they could pick whatever they want. And they said, well, he said, I think six of these cases are below average. You know, I don't like you, well, you documented stuff and this and I disagree with what you did. So I'm like, fine, they said, well, that's okay, you know, you're fine. I said, what do I need to stop operating somewhere and they say, no, no, no, no, no, you're fine. What we're gonna do is we're gonna get an independent review, right? And this is supposed to be someone with no conflicts and interests, right? So the way this is supposed to happen is that they were supposed to let me see what the cases are and put my comments in there. And they were supposed to be totally in them. So what they didn't did instead is they wouldn't let me know any of the cases. They told me, you can't see anything, right? And the guy that had the conflicts and measures, they gave him all of his findings and sent him to this guy, right? In this guy and I, you know, I don't know this situation for this guy, but, you know, I found this out about six months later, he is either seenile or totally drunk. I mean, it was just like, You know, so he gets this report, right? And it's just bad. It's like looks really bad. And I'll talk about some of the details in a second, but it just looks really bad. And they come, they pull me in the office and say, we got this really bad independent report, right? And I'm like, well, what cases where we can't tell you, but it's really bad. And we're going to, we're going to suspend you privileges. We're not going to let you work here anymore.

I think there's a combination. I think there was a combination of problems where we're not some people were doing intentionally but there was definitely possibly some of that going on. Anyway, so they get this report and the guy there's there's two people they bring me the office say you know We're gonna shut down. You can't go to your clinic. You can't talk to anybody you work with We're gonna deny you access to all clinic charts We're gonna shut off your email. You can't look at anything, right? Like I'm like I just committed murder like I'm some pariah and then they say then the guy and I'm like you know, I'm like I mean, it's like somebody kid this died. I mean, this is something I spent my whole life training for, you know, I'm doing this stuff and it's like, you know, I mean, it's like, you're like days and confusion, no, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna drive my freaking car off a cliff, you know, you're like suicide almost, you know? So the guy comes to me and he goes, hey man, we got this really bad stuff when he was going to go really bad. We're going to take it to a committee in a couple of days. And I think the best thing you can do is just say you're sorry, write a letter. I'll even help you write this letter. You know, basically say confess it. You didn't do the wrong thing. So I'm like, you know, I didn't have a lawyer at the time. And now it's going on. So I said, okay, I'll do this. And so I write this letter saying, yeah. You know, I probably could have done enough stuff different. I don't know what the cases were, but probably.

But I know, you know, I've been a straight-laced ethical guy in my whole life.

Well, she said it was probably something you shouldn't have done. Yeah. But this guy was on the committee that condemned me. Right. So this is a guy that's on.

So this is the one to be a doctor. Well, so this is. So basically, they take this committee, right? And they hand this report, this says, all this bad stuff, and they hand my confession, right? And this is all, this is basically what they have to go on. No one knows anything about the cases. And this is all these people there, doctors, but they're not surgeons, right? All they are is it would be like if you were reviewing MMA guys, like, so let's say you want to kick somebody out of the UFC, because you said his performance is enough to stuff. And you went to a much of tennis players and goal first. And said, hey man, we don't think he hasn't. His take down percentage sucks. So these people have no freaking clue, right? No clue about one thing.

And they have specific cases. And I'm not allowed to talk about this. Because I don't know there's specific cases. So then a railroad job. So then I, you know, I kind of come out of his haze and I look and I said, we'll give you a fair here. So that's what they call a fair. Federal law requires us to give you a fair here, right? So I get a lawyer and this is expensive. You know, I'm not, I'm an income anymore. So I'm spending all this money on a lawyer's fees and it's taking the hospital to drags out. They won't release records for like six months. So six months goes by. I mean, here I got four small kids. I'm like, fuck am I going to feed my kids or in school? I want autistic son and he's therapy. And you know, this is tough. You know, so I'm going through this stuff. So six months go the later and then I finally get the cases, right? And I started looking through the cases and what the guy wrote, and not only are there errors, There are a grigious errors and there's multiple them and they're just horrible. I mean, they're just so wrong. I mean, I just twice said the guy has seen our junk. I'll give you a couple of examples and any orthopedic surgeons listening to us will know immediately what I'm talking about, but I'll try to make some sense for other people. So of these 12 cases, two of them were something called a reverse shoulder replacement. So what happens is, if your shoulder wears out, you can replace your shoulder, right? Is it shoulder replacement some people?

Yeah, so then this is what I'm talking about. So normally it's a ball in socket joint, right? So there's something called a reverse shoulder replacement, which you basically switch it around. You put the ball over the socket was and the socket where the ball was, which sounds totally crazy, right? This would develop in France in the 80s and then the FDA approved this in 2004, right? So 2004 was approved in the U.S. And originally it was approved for one reason, right? If your shoulder is totally arthritic, you know, real bad. And you don't have a rotator cuff anymore and it's completely gone, right? So that's what it was first to prove for. But over the years, over the next five, ten years, people started using it for all these other things and getting really, really good results with it. So if you come in there with a blasted apart shoulder, this crash and broke and you're an older person, people do that all the time. And so that's what I did. I basically put a, you know, a reverse shoulder in a person and broke their arm in this twice. And not only did the patient do well, I mean, the patient was happy as can be. They're great. They're like no one knew that the outcomes of these patients were this patient is happiest can be. But the guy writes because he's old. I think or drunk or doesn't know the new record. He hasn't read literature and 10.

No, he puts it's not indicated for this. The only reason to do it is for an arthritic guy without it with that. missing road ticket but he doesn't know that over the last 10 years all kinds of different reasons to use it so he basically tells this committee he's doing the wrong operation when anybody to name knows that's not the case right so there's another case is a guy that's okay we don't have to keep just going over case after case is going to get a little drag I know but what where does it stand right now so basically what happens is so they drag this out for a year and a half right and they finally you know and at the end you know I tell you because I was I gotta tell you this part so I go through, this is important. I go through and compile all these cases, right? And get all the data, refute this and pull all these references and textbooks and all this stuff. And I'm like, this is a walk in the park, right? I'm going to, you know, anybody that sees this in the right mind is going to see that they screw it up and there's all these errors as wrong. So I say in discovery processes he sent all this information in and then then they fit then they realize it wait a minute. There's a lot of herds in here So now they have to pick a hearing officer, right? Who's like the judge right his word goes they pick another they get another search they give me a list of surgeons to choose from you said you can have any of these guys you want and I look through this and there's one guy You remember that group that I was competing with he's in that group and I'm like I don't want him because he's on the other group right and they said no, he just retired And we're going to make you use him, right? So they pick the judge and then on top of that day pay him. So they're paying this guy, right? So they review all this stuff and I've got this stuff and I'm going through case after case where I'm like, the patient didn't get the patient was doing great. They didn't get hurt. There's nothing wrong with them. And the lawyers from the other side are like, well, you can't do this. No harm, no foul stuff. Like, what are you talking about? You know, no one got, everybody's doing great. But he's like, well, I think you know, you could have done something different or something like that. And he like, if you look at a malpractice case, the first thing you have to do is prove harm. You know, if no one gets hurt, there's nothing there. And it's not that anyone knowing how hurt and no one did. But it's just like, so the guy at the end of it goes to he says, yeah, there are a lot of errors, right? And they're paying this guy and they check a chosen. But I think you gave patients too much choice in their care, which is I'm like, what are you talking about?

He said, no, he said, it was really bad errors. And they said, you gave patients too much choice, and you didn't document stuff as well as you should have, right? And I still think that they should have just suspended you. So this is, this is a decision they make based on that. And I will guarantee if anybody was on that committee, the new me, because those people knew me on the committee, knew us a good guy. They never had problems with me. So that's why they were shocked when this came out. But if they knew that information, 100% commits, that would be a difference. So where is it stand? So then, you know, I get done with that, and then the state gets involved, because state has to respond to any complaints. The state gets his complaint. State and New Mexico. And it's kind of weird, because my next or neighbors on the state board, I'm just like totally avoiding the guy, because I don't want to influence anything, right? I'd be giving him flowers. No, but I just didn't want to do that. And I even told him, I said, hey, my next or next reason I'm in your board, right? So I don't want to be totally ethical about this. This is a story.

Yeah, maybe we can make an elk steak or something like that. So then, you know, the board gets this nice say, hey, man, this is a bad recommendation. And we're going to give you two options. You can suspend your license. You can voluntarily suspend your, just random your license or you can go to trial. You know, we can do another hearing, which probably can take a year. It's going to cost you tons of money, you know, which I don't know. I'm tired of this. I'm tired of lawyers. Spend all this money, and I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to feed my kids. So then, you know, the state says, or what you can do is we'll send you to a place and evaluate you independently and then if everything goes well, we'll give you a license back. So that's, I said, okay, that's what I'm going to do because I'm tired of this. I don't want to spend $100,000 in one year when I can go to this place and spend $12,000. and get a value waiting to go from there. So that's where I was this week. In fact, I was in Denver, being with these other services. And they were just like, go through all these case case case case. What would you do? What would you do? What would you do? And I am clearly, you know, even though I'm done this stuff in two years, I'm clearly convinced that they're going to say, hey, man, you're fine. And they're going to say, here, go operate with somebody for example.

I'm living off my savings. You know, I saved up some money, so I live off that, and that's mostly it. You know, so I'm just kind of slowly watching my savings doing the land. Jesus Christ, that's got to be stressful. It's kind of stressful. I mean, you know, I've got a girlfriend who makes a good living, but I don't want to be, you know, but I've got kids. So we've got kids. I've got to keep with her. You know, I've got three kids in my ex-wife and they're all young kids. And so I'm back in Switzerland. I'm traveling back and forth, you know, trying to support these kids. You know, I had to pull my kids out of school. I had to put them in a different school because the income wasn't there anymore. So it's kind of a pain. It's kind of sucks.

So I was just in Denver, they said it'll take about eight weeks, so they'll give me a plan. They'll say, okay, we think that, you know, I am almost 100% convinced they're going to say, you know, we need you to go work with some dude for a couple of months because you're out of practice. And I think I'll probably end up doing that. Then the board, the state board will review what they say and and all they say, hey man, you're, you know what you're doing, they'll give it back to me. It's saying. Yeah. So anyway, it's, you know, it's, again, I don't blame the state board. I don't blame the people around the committee because they were clues. I didn't know what I, I blame some incompetence by the administrators, you know, and just whoever reviewed me, you know, if it were caveman times, you know, I'd go with a big club and like what the, you know, I understand.

Well, I got to pay the like. Those are my own jobs. I understand that, but then there's a point where it's kind of like you've got to make a decision between patient care. And you know, yeah, and see you'll make it make it look like.

You know, it's kind of not because I know he had Chris Chris around here while I listen a little bit of stuff and then in his premise at the beginning, which I haven't read his book yet, but I think it's great. I mean, here's a problem Western medicine. You know, we are facing this, I mean, it's like a war in his chronic disease. It's like being invaded by You know, remember, independent state with that. Yes. You know, and doctors, we got BB guns. I mean, the stuff we are shooting at them doesn't work for chronic disease. Now, it's tough. It's different. You know, there's some stuff that we have this wonderful technology, but the right in the mill diabetes and obesity.

It's broken. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. Even like arthritis that I saw every day. you know, if we were trained properly in nutrition and exercise, you know, that's what I've done in my whole life, you know, I know what I'm doing exercise wise, but you know, if we were allowed to do that, instead of training all these, you know, radiology technicians and blood draw technicians and nursing assistants, if you had an army of preventive people, you know, preventive medicine people, you know, and we train all these people to go into people's homes, you know, I think Christ was talking about that, and just get the crap out of their diet and show them how to be healthier you know I mean you would you would save you know it's funny watching the politicians debate about health care how to fund it you know it's like you guys are arguing about the Titanic as it's coming up in an iceberg and you're not you're arguing about the color of the deck chairs I mean we are going over a cliff and and we're not fixing it by keeping putting you know bandage you're not going to ride to the technologies not going to fix

Yeah, I mean, there's you know, like I said, there's a guy Peter Tia, I don't know if you know he is, but he talks about when he was a certain. He felt like he was at the bottom of a building and somebody's throwing eggs off and his job is to catch the eggs. Oh, God. Right. And he's like, well, what does that guy stop fucking throwing out eggs? But that's what medicine is. You're just catching the eggs. And so instead of that, we should be investing, you know, all we talk about prevention, but it's bullshit. We don't do anything for prevention. It's so little. And then the problem, the problem is a lot of it doesn't work the way we've designed it, you know.

I can tell you one of the things I used to see because when you're when you're surgeon you like someone comes with a bad arthritis and you place your knee and they feel better for a while. You're like, oh, that's great man. I really helped this person. Then they come in next year and their other knee is all jacked up. And then they were in a place that, well, you should have just done something so they didn't need our threat. It didn't get, you know, didn't need surgery on the other time. Yeah.

Okay, here's a problem because no one's demonstrated the diet works, but I will tell you.

Right, but I will tell you that, you know, just because I told you not because I'm a freak, because I am just eating meat. I'm doing this athletic stuff. And everybody says you're an ally or you're genetic freak, whatever. Right. You're in any equals one. So we made his website called any equals many. Me and his other Air Force guy that he's also a carnivore. We got this thing we said, well, what if people started gathering this information together and we could start documenting that. That's what we did. So we put out a survey on Twitter. I said, hey, how many of you guys would be willing to go 90 days and just eat a bunch of steaks? I had like 400 and I didn't have that many. Followed by like 400 people. Yeah, we'll do it. That's amazing. So we developed this website and it's called EniclesMoney.com for people who want to see. So we developed this website and we started getting these first and equal sign or EQ. No EQ spell. I don't know if you can put an E equals on the So we do this and we get all these people that sign up and we ended up having about a close to a hundred people just do 90 days of just standing me and then we and it's and again there's a lot of scientific root things you can criticize about this you know it's just guys ate meat, anecdotal stuff, anecdotal stuff, but you know, when we got done, and I've got the results, we're still analyzing the data, because we're all doing this for free, and we're trying to get people to help us analyze the data, and you know, but of these 100 people, you know, there's about 85 actually. Of these people, we ask them, what happened to your general health, what happened to your sexual health, what happened to your exercise capacity, what happened to your GI health, your skin, everything, we have to all these questions, and There was maybe one one percent or they said I got worse 99 percent got better much better or say to say you know say it was just like unanimously everybody got you know pretty much either the same is it is it possible to this some bias in that group because they're following you absolutely I mean I'm full aware of that right and that's that's you know that's but it's interesting but then we're getting some old update because I know you like about lab data So I get people and I don't have access to all the data and I didn't want to have access to the data. I don't want to bias myself against it. So I'm getting fed the data and I'm seeing that people's blood pressure is normalizing. People's hemoglobin A1C, which is never measured glucose, is normalizing. People's inflammation markers are normalizing. All these markers of disease are going in the right direction. You know, Robert is seeing good stuff, you know, because a lot of the people will say, meet cause of diabetes, meet cause of hypertension.

Yeah, I mean they they they they look some of the use of the sociational stuff and that's all they ever do. I mean it's like some of the sociational stuff.

Yeah, I mean 100% I mean that's totally true. I mean, you know, and so one of the thing is so nice about studying these people, they're just eating meat. I mean, you isolate. That's really, really, you gotta isolate. So we know what happens when you just eat.

We had some meat. What we said was documented. Yeah, we had them documented stuff. And some of them did some, you know, it was kind of like one of these things where we, because we never done this before. And like we're in, we made them document all kinds of stuff. And a lot of people, some of the people initially dropped that, because we made them document too much stuff. Like it's too much of a hassle. So we had certain percent that dropped out because they just didn't want to document stuff. We had a certain percentage of dropped out because they didn't feel they felt like they had a low energy, right? And so a lot of people when they do this, they just can't eat very much. I mean, they get full and they're not eating enough. And so that's one of the biggest things that I tell people when they switch over this, eat meat like it's your job. That's why I tell them you got to eat, eat, eat, eat. But shouldn't they just eat until they're not hungry anymore? Well, the problem is you the problem is a lot of people lose weight on this you know a lot of people get lean on this stuff is that you know your hunger goes down pretty low because you're you know you're eating a lot of fat in a lot of protein you know especially if you're eating reading ribbi steaks you know that's probably about 70% fat 30% protein something like that so I mean it's really really satisfying and so You know, they tend to, they tend to under, because no one's used to, like, if I sold you jogally four pounds of meat a day, you're gonna be like, I mean, I know you're like me, but I mean, even that's probably a big ten. It's a lot. So a lot, you know, and so to get used to that, it takes a while. You know, it depends on your activity level, because I work out pretty damn hard, and I do it pretty often.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, you know, this is, like I said, this is, you know, back to that, that it collects a lot of stuff I do. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm, you know, My capacity to exercise is great.

I had more energy, I had better libido, you know, you wake up every day, you know, you're ready to go, you know, it's like, You know, I've had a couple people that and I haven't tested this, but I have a couple of people who have none this and again, we need to get more data. I've had a couple of people who've done it said they're testosterone level went up, you know, like they went on all meat. They're testosterone went up about 20%. And so I don't like, well, that's the interesting. You know, I don't put a lot of faith in just a couple of anecdotes.

Absolutely. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. If you look at, you know, red meat consumption in the US is about 1977. So red meat has gone down about 30 to 40%. Really? Yeah. We used to weigh more in the 70s. We ate about 30 to 40% more red meat than we do now. Okay. Yep. And also our testosterone levels have dropped significantly. Population testosterone levels have dropped. about that same amount.

Wow. Yeah. So there's another interesting fact. Hong Kong. Right. Hong Kong right now. If you look up if you Google, Hong Kong life expectancy, they live the longest out of anybody on the world. Right. They eat about 40% more red meat than we do in the U.S. And they have the longest lift people in the world, which is interesting.

Yeah, I don't know how to, you know, it's interesting because, you know, that another big is really like to point out, open out. It's a blue zone and a lot of vegetables. They look at the people that lived over a hundred in, in Okinawa, none of them were vegetarians. All of them ate meat.

Well, I mean, you know, obviously there's different propaganda out there. And I think, you know, here's what I'd say, you know, if you want to do veganism and it makes you healthy fun, most people can't do it. I mean, we know that about

I mean, there are studies they like to push, but there's also studies that show the opposite effect. You know, if you look at the Epic Oxford study, which had about 60,000 people in it, You know, they show that fidgetarians beings live no longer than meat eaters. There's no difference, right? Even though the meat eaters are probably the guys that don't care about their health too, so they may not only is it not protective, it may be a negative. You can look at a study at Austria. It looked at 240,000 people called the 45 and up study. Same thing. vegan vegetarians, no longer life, no better health. So it's kind of like, you know, who do you believe? And these guys have their studies that they're going to quote, and you can try and I can cherry pick all day. And other people can cherry pick all day. It's just BS. So my best advantage advice is, and this is I think the best advice you can give anybody. You know, until we start seeing dudes walking around that are in shape and jacked 120 years old, You're not going to know what the right thing to do is. And so the best advice you can have is to get strong, get healthy, you know, move well, to everything you can to make your health good. And that's the best you can do because if you're healthy today, odds are you're going to be healthier tomorrow. So, you know, the fact that, you know, Joe, you're still got a lot of muscle on you at 50, means you're more likely to have someone in your 60. I mean, there's just no doubt that's the biggest correlated, the best, one of the best predictors of long life is your exercise capacity.

Yeah, I mean, you can do about 80 diets better than that. I mean, I was like in a lot of things, you know, this is another point I bring out. You know, because one of the differences between what I sort of think is healthy, and I don't, I'll come out and say, I don't know for sure. I'm still learning this stuff, but I'm willing to investigate it. I'm willing to put my body to testing. Have other people, you know, give me data. But what I, what we, what there's a big group out there says you shouldn't eat a lot of protein. You should really restrict your protein. There are some data that talks about something called M-tore that, you know, maybe, you know, it causes cancer, maybe it inhibits a lot of longevity and then these lesser animals like mice and, you know, little tadpoles, nematote things and, you know, back there. And then there's another group of scientists out there's got him Stuart Phillips out of Canada that's looking at that. And it shows that, you know, the more protein you have, especially when you get older, the The longer you're going to preserve muscle, the better you're calling your life isn't likely the longer you're going to live, you know? And so what happens if you autopsy an old person, you know, if you get some, and you go to an old folks home, their brain has shrunk. I mean, their muscles have shrunk in a way, the protein and their bones have shrunk in a way. Their kidneys have shrunk, their heart has shrunk, their skin has shrunk. Everything shrunk because lost all this protein and what happens is, as you get older and older, you lose some of the capacity to digest meat. And so what happens is, where does your body get that protein from? It just starts taking it from yourself. You start auto cannibalizing your cell to sustain function. It's sustained cellular function. So if you're not getting that replaced, you know, through diet and meat is outstanding source of that, you know, you're going to be frailer and frailer. You know, we have an obesity epidemic, but we also have a frail to epidemic. There are people that are just I mean, by the time they're 40, I mean, they may be obese, but their weakest can be.

You know, you and I at 50 are like the bar for a healthy 50 or normal 50 year old is, you know, way down low and you know, we're like total outliers. You know, the fact that we exercise and have a little muscle. I mean, that that puts you in the 99% tall right there.

Yeah, I think that, you know, if you look at animals in the wild, right? You know, if you're looking at a pack of animals getting hunted, which one's going to get killed? Which one are they going to pick out? They're flying to the frail. The slow week one, right? The old one. So if you're a human, and we don't get hunted by lions, but if you're a human, if you say, you know, my one was my peak athleticsism, you know, maybe 25, maybe 30, you know, somewhere in that, or 33rd, 35, somewhere in there, that's like your, that's your top performance for most people. Yeah. The closer you can maintain to that ability, as long as you possibly can, do whatever it takes to get there. The farther you are away from death, I mean, that's just a simple nature, you know, slow the week, they get eaten, they die, they get disease, they become disabled. I don't want to be a, you know, I'm 59. I don't want to be a 60 year old guy that's walking around, limping around. You know, needing assistance somebody that you know lift my groceries for me and this is what we have or even a woman. I mean women should be out there strength training getting stronger swing and heavy kettlebells jump and that's the other thing that you brought up explosiveness because I think we're finally starting you know we finally went away from jogging right you know we went from the 1960s to the You know, early 2000s, everybody's jogging. That's what you do for health. Then people started discovering strength training. So now we get people that are in there lifting a little bit by thinking what you also have to do. And this is something because I've got this little training system that you know, helping people with. But I think you have to do the explosive work too. So I do, you know, I get in there with medicine balls. And I think a lot of people under you that I take medicine balls. And I try to break the fucking things. I mean, I throw them as hard as I can. You know, I'm jumping like I said I'm jumping with a vest on you know the stuff you have to build up to it has to be done in the safe manner. You know, and I'm spreading them on an air dine by if you've been on air dine. Yeah, yeah, love those. Those are the, you know, say, you got to get one for here. Yeah, we're getting one. Good. I was just, you know, here's what you bought once. No, no, here's what I would tell you to do. Okay, there's a company called Octane Fitness. It makes an air dine X. It's probably better than that air assault bike.

It's just solid. I mean, it's solid. I mean, it's just, it's just, you just, you know, in my view, you know, because I've done, I've done everything. I mean, I've broken world records on the concept too. So I know how to do the intense stuff. That air dine, those type things, the best thing you could do for the shorts for it. So I mean, they're still there. Yeah. They're so metabolically, demanding. I mean, I don't think charge.

Well, I mean, you know, I don't, you know, there's a skier. You can do stuff like that. Right. But I mean if you if you get on that thing and you go as hard as you fucking can for 30 seconds or a minute a minute seem more or some minute every time I do it for a minute I feel like I'm literally going to drown we're going to die you know it's just like because I you know here's what I do I tell I call these things chainsaw intervals so I tell people pretend there's some fucking maniac with a chainsaw it's gonna catch you up I've got to go as hard as you can. You know, there's a, I've got to, I don't have that at home. I've got to, the regular area down here and I keep breaking the damn thing because I go too hard. You know, it's just not strong enough. But when I go to the commercial gym, there's a guy that they just made that and they showed, they told me to do it. And I have, there's another MMA guy that I can't remember any members name, but he was like a pride champion guy, like pride six or seven, and then wanted, and he's at the gym. I'm at sometimes something come for me, but, but I mean, that thing is, you know, just try, do you have those? I'm sure those guys would come up here and let you demo it, you know, and just get on there and go, you know, and this is the thing I talk about when I talk about high-intensive, you know, a lot of people They don't get the high intensity part. They'll do tabadas where they'll go 90% 100% of the first one. And then by the time the third one, they're down like 60% because the rest intervals are too short. So I'm like, man, go like somebody's going to kill you for 20 seconds. And then rest three or four minutes. And then go again, because then you keep hitting that high intensity.

use to for weightlifting I used to do like I just try to burn myself out go to failure look short is like if I get 30 seconds break all right come on next set I mean I don't do that anymore the problem with that is you're just tired you know what you're training at the time there's a time to do the training you know like I said you know I break it up when I tell people how to train I'm like look you train it for explosive and that's the only thing you care about you don't get tired because you're gonna you're gonna You're going to waste, you're not going to be in his tents enough, the same thing with the spreading, the same thing with the living, give yourself enough of a break so that you can focus and do what you need to do. Then when it's conditioning time, then you can go get tired. Right.

That's one of the problems with light. I think CrossFit. There's a lot of good elements to there. I mean, there's a lot of people who do well with that, but some of the exercises they pick, you know, like when you get tired doing snatches, the odds of you getting fucked up are high. Very high. So I tell people, do something that's, you know, it's hard and it's tiring. And when you get tired in your form breaks down, you're not going to get hurt. You know, you may do medicine, all slams. If you're jumping up and down on a box and then you fuck up, your shin's bloody, you know, what's what's the point of that? So, you know, I just have a

Yeah, it's no consequence. Yeah, exactly. I think that's that's the way to do that. And I've been training now for almost 40 years, Joe and I haven't taken a week off. I'll take a week off. I'll take a week off and say they were you. I know as you take too much time, you just don't feel good. Let's see the other thing about this diet. My recovery pass is huge. I mean, I can train super intense every single day without a break, which is kind of nice. I mean, this is The other thing that I get people telling me all the time is, you know, they're, I mean, they're hitting PRs on dead lists.

So I'm not used to, you know, you know, I'm talking about, but I mean, it's like, you know, I get these people all the time. They're like, man, I'm hitting pushup records, chin up records, but deadlift went up a hundred pounds and three months from from just eating meat and stuff like that. So I think there's something to it. I mean, people that are telling me my dad, I put my dad on this tie, right? He's 74 years old. Two months into the diet, he goes, they man, this is the biggest my biceps ever man in my life. And he's just eating meat. That's crazy. So he's like he's just putting on muscle just because he's taken in so much animal tissue.

Yeah, here's what I'll tell you, Joe. So, January, World Carnivore Month, right? So, we're trying to get as many people. We get thousands of people in there and just give us your data and equals many.coms. Do a month and do World Carnivore Month. There's instructions on how to do that. And this is a meet your day.

Yeah. So, I tell people you can eat meat, eggs, dairy, cheese, you know, you can drink coffee, stuff like that. We didn't, we just know vegetables for a month. No fruits of vegetables from one. No plants from one. You can see, you put little seasoning on it.

Tell me if you need help. All right. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. That was great. Thank you. All right. All right.