Transcript for #1574 - Jacques Vallée & James Fox

As a teenager, with two other witnesses, one of the witnesses was half a mile away with binoculars. So I'm pretty sure that that object was real and it was a classic disc, middle of the afternoon, clear sky, absolutely clear. At the time I became convinced that it might be a prototype of something that would be coming out later and you know, we're here many years later and we still don't have anything like that. It was just hovering and it was there.

Steven Spielberg felt. Spielberg was intrigued with the idea of a character that was not quite as weird as, you know, the ETs, but was a lot weirder than, you know, the people on the ground in the US trying to make sense of this and the military and so on. So he needed this intermediate character. He thought, you know, Frenchman was a right thing to do.

I, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh He was, at the time he was looking for a transition between the time when they know the big thing is coming, the mothership is coming and they don't know where and the mothership is sending signals but they can't decipher. the signals. And he said, you know, he had spent the morning at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. And he said, he couldn't make any sense of all the mathematics they had. And I said, well, maybe you could have, you know, two screens that give you an angle and the angle tells you where the thing is. And he said, now that's too complicated, you know, and takes too long, right? And it's got to be just a few minutes in the film. And then I thought of a photograph that was on the desk of Dr. Heinrich, you know, Dr. Jay Heinrich, who was the Air Force consultant on UFOs at the time, and I was working with him building databases and so on. And on that photograph, there were three guys, you know, really well dressed on ladders around a huge sphere of the earth in the lobby of some building somewhere with pieces of string that they were they were putting the string over the earth. And I told Dr. Hyde, I can said, Alan, you know, what's the story behind this? And he said, well, the when the first picnic was launched, you know, October 57. Nobody had a computer program to compute an orbit. But they knew where the sputnik had been seen. Nobody expected the Russians to come up with this and they needed to know where it was going next. So the New York Times called the director of Harvard Observatory. saying can you give us a comment on the Russian satellite and the guy said hey it's clear crack in the morning you know what Russian satellite and so they got dressed in a hurry and they were trying to compute the orbit by putting a string around the around the model of the earth in the lobby of Harvard. And I thought it was so funny. And Spielberg said that's it. You know, that's it. The general says, come on, you know, the, you know, the, the choreographer, who is the interpreter of the French guy, says, well, it looks like it's somewhere in Wyoming, you know, but where in Wyoming, you know, where should we go? And the general says, you mean we've got $10 billion worth of radar and cameras and everything else. Nobody's got a map of Wyoming and they break into the lobby of the building next door and they come back with this globe. And, you know, they've got the globe and they look at it and get the coordinates. And because they, it turns out the geography tells them, you know, those signals, they look like a longitude and a latitude. So they, they, they crisp, you know, they get the point where it's going to be. And that piece that was missing in the movie. So I was really proud of that, you know, it was really fun. Well, so it's the one funny part in the movie.

You know, not only that, but the witnesses don't talk to the government either. You know, by now the witnesses are tired of being ridiculed, by scientists, you know, by and told that those things don't exist. So they don't talk. So they don't talk to, you know, people like you, people like me, because they trust me and in Silicon Valley, you know, you wouldn't believe the number of people who come to me including CEOs of companies that I've worked with who tell me about sightings that people in their family have had or sightings they had including sightings and Vietnam for example and so on when they were in the military that have never been reported and the government isn't getting that.

Well, my approach to that is, you know, no single case. And I think the scientists are not completely too blame there. No single case can prove either that we're being visited or even that there is a phenomenon here on Earth that we still need to be discovering. You need to have been trained to look for patterns. You know, my background is in artificial intelligence and computer science and you look for patterns, whether it's in medicine, in business, in other fields, in physics. And one case, even as good as was, well, is, that doesn't do it. So I've been looking for other cases that can reinforce with pattern and reveal what is really behind it. because the idea that it's just E.T. coming here that doesn't really answer all the questions we have.

You know, in back in Silicon Valley, we're sort of, you know, there's a group of people who are getting really interested in this because we've got new technology to analyze materials. And we've got materials from a number of similar incidents. Again, what we're looking for, and it's how to do. It's only now that we've really got equipment, scientific equipment that can really look at this. The characteristics of materials are the same throughout the universe. I mean, iron from miles is just like iron from the earth. The isotopes would be the same ones. The isotopes are the components that define the orbits of the atom and what goes into the nucleus of the atom. They would be the same ones in outer space and they are on the earth. What could change would be if somebody was altering artificially the ratio of the isotopes within the elements. So it gets pretty complicated. We are doing a survey of all the samples that we have from a number of crashes likewise. was well was not unique. It was not unique in New Mexico and now we have we have samples from Europe or samples from South America. There are a number of people who have started to look at that. There were publications by a professor from Stanford. office of Sturac 30 years ago about material recovered from Brazil, where, again, the isotopes were measured. I'm the guy who, he, the French volunteer to measure the isotope ratios and I carried that, you know, that precious little sample to, to Paris to get it to the people who were, were doing the experiments. The jury is still out. Obviously, somebody could take, you know, common elements, refine the isotopes and put them back together. Of course, that was done for the atom bomb, you know, it would be between different isotopes of uranium, you know, and you have to differentiate between, you know, which, what goes into really making the bomb. And now you can buy, for medicine, for example, you can buy radio isotopes in small quantities, but they cost an enormous amount for a few grams. So if we find that some of those samples have been altered, that's a revolution, because it means that there is somebody somewhere either on Earth or off planet who has a technology to do that for a particular purpose. If we find that, that's a revolution.

You have to go into the directions. First, you don't need something, you know, three feet by five feet to do that. You can do it on a few grams. We've got instruments now, new instruments that were created by some of the people that I work with that can just do it at the biological level, almost a level of a few grams or a few milligrams. So, we're in the process of doing that. And in fact, the book that I'm preparing is going to talk about that. The other thing is, you know, where would the big thing go? You know, we don't have the big thing. Well, you know, after a few years people talk, and again, both in Silicon Valley and other places, scientists need to talk to each other. And I've had discussions with people who handle that material. One of them I can tell you about was a very high level engineering manager in a large company that has research labs in Silicon Valley. He was asked 30 years ago to look at some material and he described to me what that was and actually he showed it to me. He said it was a matrix of awful silicates and he could not understand the structure. I mean, he could analyze it in his land. He was a man who developed the magnetic coating for desks and tapes. So I don't need to tell you how many billions of dollars of business those companies that he worked with, you know, made based on his patents. So he had a good lab and he was able to do the analysis. He could not understand the deep structure of that material. Now, the problem that the people who have those vehicles have is they will, because it stops secret, they have to compartmentalize everything. So one company would get the material, another company might get some descriptions of maybe the beings, another company might get something that looks like fiber optics or electronics, so they wouldn't But only a few people would be able to put all the information together. That's not a good way to do research. Not a good way to do science. We've got to get that stuff to the scientific community and open it up.

He had been asked on the secret project to do the analysis. So this had been something that government had brought to them. That was unique in the United States. And you know, that was, he was your appropriate guy.

if it had been that material would have been used by now, and we've never seen that material again. And what year was this when he did the study? I don't know when he did the study. He's bad now, so he's not going to be. Right. Yeah.

Look, in Silicon Valley, people from different companies and so on, get together, and they look at things together, if they trust you, because then you need to get different minds on the same page. So that conversation was over 20 years ago. I've never forgotten it. Another conversation with a military man who retired. Now, who told me that he was brought in to a large hangar where there were pieces of things that looked like a vehicle and there was a wing. that would have been the size of this table, and he could lift it with one hand. Again, very light, like what James was saying about Wasrael, extremely light material that was very, very strong. Well, still today, we don't have anything like that. We've got fancy, titanium things and so on, but he knew what technology went into our advanced aircraft. He was with the Air Force. And he couldn't believe that he could lift that entire metal surface with one hit.

Well, typically the way You know, a secret project works if you look at other projects that we know now how they were handled like the submarine or the Russian submarine that was recovered. And it would go to different places because you'd send different parts to the best experts. Absolutely the best world experts in those people you already have under contract. And you might not tell them, you know, where it comes from. You might tell them, this is something, you know, one of our guys got this out of Czechoslovakia, you know, and we think it's Russian stuff from the MIG, you know, and why don't you analyze it? They wouldn't necessarily tell you that it comes from a UFO, whatever UFOs are.

Not something that would pass, you know, that scientists would really, really look at. You know, In the forties, there were people working on advanced materials for ultra light aircraft for rockets. You know, the transistor people say, look at the transistor. We must have gotten this from the aliens. Well, the packing for the transistor is a German packing from 1934. You know, the German scientist discovered the transistor effect and he described it. But nobody had any need for that. There was no electronics. Nobody really had any need for it. And then the electronics was in glass tubes. So that was rediscovered by the labs, by the people who patented the transistor.

I don't think you would find too many people in Silicon Valley who would believe that because some of the people from Bell Labs came west and some of them are still alive and they would tell you how it happened. And when you look at the old films, the old movies from Bell Labs, You can see what they were doing. It's kind of laughable. I mean, it's high school physics, whooping up the thing with big wires. This was not really advanced stuff. They understood the transistor effect, which was known since the 30s. It was not new science. It was just something that had never being required.

To develop because, you know, the NP fires worked fine, you know, and there was no real need for it. When there was a need, then they started working on that.

Well, that was one of the fibers, you know, antibiotics. Kendall Koso, who was someone I, you know, respect and admire, revealed that he was in charge for the army. of getting, he got a lot of, and somebody gave him a, you know, a cardboard box, literally, full of stuff that came from places like Roswell. And they were fibers. And when you put a light at one end, you know, the light would go to the end of the fibers. Well, that effect has been known in physics for a long time. So again, that does prove anything. I had that conversation, we've also spent two days with him. Thanks to Mr. Biguro. We brought him to Las Vegas to talk to the science board of Biguro Aerospace. And then I had some private conversations with him about some other things that were not in his book. But the fiber, you know, I told him frankly, you know, fibers, glass fibers were known before World War II. People use them for in lab work and so on. So that's not really no. I'm not a scientist, you know, I'm a military guy. That I was asked by, you know, the head of the lab to preserve this and to what he did is to give it to different labs, you know, give it to MIT, give it to, I don't know, but tell, give it to a few others. And what happened when he did that? I don't know what happened.

It told that also to Powell Harris, who traveled with him in Europe. And published his book in Italy and other languages. His English book was censored by the publisher. And he died really. I mean, he was given the You know, the proof, he had 24 hours to check the proof. He didn't check everything. He didn't have time. And there were parts that were missing. And parts that he had told me, fortunately, I can testify to what he told me. But a lot of what he knew wasn't in the book that was published in the US. It's in books that were published in other languages. You know, thanks to power. about a house who preserved all that, but there was still at that stage, there was some tricks being played, not to get all the information out.

President wouldn't necessarily be cleared. That's hilarious.

It's not the matter of curiosity, it's the matter of need to know and you also want to protect the president. It also the president changes every four years. And also there are three different classes of secrets. There are secrets that are under the control of the president. There are secrets that under the control of the state department that have to do with foreign intelligence that don't go through the same channels. And then there are the atomic secrets. And the Clarences, over the years, I've occasionally been cleared. I was cleared for the best project, and Mr. Regulo, Mr. Bigulo. the Clarences for atomic secrets are the P Clarences, the Q Clarences, the R Clarences, they are completely segregated from the kind of Clarences that we had as part of the the the the the the the the best project or the ATIT project. So those people would not have been cleared for some of the scientific information. And I think we're getting to the point where we need to somebody needs to open up the doors and the windows and get the scientific community involved.

Yes. In other countries, people have been a lot more open. including Russia, you know, I mean, and certainly including France. I mean, there was one incident 1978, a mirage, you know, guy flying a mirage. Fulcano, French Air Force. The Mirage doesn't have any weapons. It's just coming in to digital, you know, digital where the mustard comes from. Okay. Well, they happen to have, you know, a base, an atomic base there. And the Mirage is our fighter bombers, so they can take nuclear ammunition. He was unarmed, he's flying at late afternoon early evening. No problem. Caesar liked that he's two o'clock position. Right light, doesn't know what it is, gets bigger. He thinks he sees a structure behind the light that he was never really sure. There seems to be an object there. Solid object. But the light goes around him and stops up on his tail, which is a kill position, you know, for a fighter jet. He doesn't like that. It takes evasive action, which he wasn't prepared to do. I mean, he didn't have special suits or anything. He dives. The object starts moving again, grows around him, makes her 360 degree circle at high speed. And he can't believe it. I mean, number one, there couldn't be a pilot because a pilot could be crushed. But there is nothing that can move that fast. And the thing is back on his tail, he has to dive a second time. Okay, he lands in Dijon, writes a report. The report would probably not have come out except that there was a number of people on the ground who saw this app, saw the whole thing. And there was a John Dam, you know, who was French police, a branch of a little parallel to the French police, who wrote a report and that report was public. So they interviewed, they found the pilot, they interviewed him, I mean, there is no question that happened, and this was 1978. So, I mean, what else is new, okay, that we've got those things? Well, what's new is we have footage, you know, and some of the footage that James had in his movie. that actually proves it, but actually, you know, footage doesn't prove anything, because you can fake the camera. But when you have the pilots themselves and the footage and the instrumentation and the radar, I mean, that thing was tracked on radar, that saw the whole thing. You know, you don't really do that to a nuclear bomber.

This is an infrared image, right? It's not visible. It's at a normal camera.

It's the same type of camera that has the one from the Nimitz. So you're looking at heat signature. You're not really looking at the visual picture. Right. So that's why it's not, you cannot get a clear definition of it.

No, no, not in this particular case. Where are the bodies from Roswell? I don't know. I mean, you know, all you have on rumors, you know, Walter Reed Hospital in the basement. You know, I can't get to the basement of Walter Reed Hospital.

Well, now, you know, there are physicians in the who with clearances who have tried to to get that information and to my knowledge because they don't they don't think to tell me everything but if there was You know, if there is material evidence, like the kind of thing, I've got, okay, that witnesses have given to me, you know, that I went, went out and dug it up, okay. So I know where it comes from, okay. But if we found that it was really very strange, even beyond our ability to manipulate the isotopes, that still doesn't prove that there isn't somebody who is smarter than we are, somewhere on earth, making that stuff. So I still couldn't stand at the Academy of Sciences and say, look, this proves it. But if we have bodies, I would think that if they have a different structure, from any organism that we know, you know, from biology on Earth. I mean, I would have to think that would be a revolution. The strange thing, essentially, I mean, people would be controlled with it.

We have to stop reacting to intrusions by UFOs as a threat. I mean, that's the whole thing behind this new task cross. And as much as I respect the task cross, My colleagues and I want to cooperate with them to the extent that we can bring information or resources to what they do. But there is more. This is not, should not be looked at specifically as a threat. With the phenomenon that we observe, I mean, if they wanted to blow up those F-18s, I could do it. Obviously, that's not what it's all about. And this idea of just labeling it all as a threat because it's unknown, that's a wrong idea. 90% of the information comes from the public, comes from children, comes in very, very little of it is made up. You know, in France, I mean, the data we get at the French space agency comes through channels where if people reported something that's found to be untrue, they're going to be called by the police. Now, you know, they may have some penalties associated with that.

Really?

What has been people killed? I apparently fall no reason. Very rare though. Where was the ten twelve cases? I went to Brazil four times and I got to know Brazil and the data there pretty well. And I spoke to people in the armed forces, people in the Brazilian air force and the police. They have been a number of cases where people died. and where witnesses died. And also cases where witnesses were chased through the jungle by objects with beams. And I was really interested in those beams because those beams were extensible. Well, it's hard to make an extensible. If you turn on the light or a laser, you know, it's going to keep going. It doesn't go 10 feet and just stop in me there. Those beams stop, which means it's not just light. It's something else. And also they will pin you to Hamak, for example, some of the people who are asleep, you know, Hamak, they wake up and they see this light and the light comes down and pins them to the bed or to the Hamak. And I've published pictures of injuries with people sustained as a result of those beams. So, you know, this is at least a demonstration of You know, the power that number one we don't quite understand the technology and number two we don't understand why that is.

So, yes, I am amazed that, you know, I mean, in the 50s and 60s, There was all that science fiction about aliens from other planets and so on and all these movies. So that was, frankly, when I started looking at the statistics, trying to make sense, trying to build those databases. do AI on top of it, I was looking for, you know, ET extraterrestrial. Now we've got so much more data that contradicts that. Things coming through the wall of a bedroom, okay, as a light, and the light turns into something else, and it has information in it, or it turns into something physical. You know, this is not this is way off. I mean, this I'm not just very corals that come from somewhere else.

Well, you know, to some extent, I mean, we keep saying the scientists are skeptical and so on, that if you look at physics today, I mean, People will tell you there's probably more than there must be more than four dimensions, you know, of space time. There must be to explain, you know, atomic phenomena to explain quantum mechanics to explain all those things. There could very well be there. Fairies that are published in physics journals about multiple universes, about universes, interpreting each other, maybe channels between those universes. There could be another universe with a room like this, five minutes ahead of us. We would never see them, we would never detect them. There could be another earth, five minutes ahead of us. in another universe. And we physics today. Authorizes us to think about those things. Now, they think about those things, not because of UFOs. They consider it because it makes sense in the theories they have to build to explain what they see in the lab. In the particle labs, in the accelerators, in detecting all these other layers of matter of nature. But it implies that this isn't just, you know, not only the other planet, but this isn't the only universe.

But it was a little cabin in there was on the California coast. It was gorgeous full of flowers and so on, but no facility. No. Just electricity, some of the time. Yeah. And there were times when you, yeah, it wasn't even electricity.

Well, about all the cases we had in France, but I had in my computer catalog. And that's when he wanted me to move to North Western, you know, from Texas. My first year in this country was here in Austin. So it's always fun to come back to Austin. Austin has changed since 1962. I can tell you, I can tell you, I can tell you, I can change since 99 when I first got there. Yes. And so I told Alan, let me look really carefully at the air force files. And you've got to have close encounter cases. In those days, we were calling them landing cases because there were traces on the ground. And that's where you could do some physics. There is more than a testimony. The guy says something landed in my backyard, it left his halls. You don't have to believe him. You can go see the hall, so you can measure them. You can look at the temperature, you can look at radiation, you can look at all these things. And he said, no, well, we don't have those kinds of cases. So I convinced him, you know, but to let me look at the files. And he said, look, I'm going to write a person where Project Blue Book was headquartered at the Foreign Technology Division, which is an intelligence branch of the Air Force. It looks at foreign materials. It was a logical place to put it. And what's funny is everybody assumes that that project was stopped secret. I mean, even in the movie production, the series now, the top secret blue book, blue book was never top secret. There were a few cases individually that were secret because of that radar was classified at the time. But the observation itself wasn't classified. And in those days, I wasn't, I didn't have a clearance. And I wasn't even an American citizen. I had only been in the US for a couple of years. So he said, that's no problem. We'll get you just a clearance for two days to go. to get to the base. But the archives themselves were, you know, any French scientist who wanted access could have had access. In the American scientist, and they, what frustrated the Air Force was that, you know, Carl Sagan never went there. All these scientists who said that who pulled the whole idea of UFOs, they never went to look at the archives. They never looked at the testimonies, at the wires, at the teletypes, you know.

Yes, he was willing to, they speculated. They had interesting discussions between high and high and high. Heinek, you know, was kept talking about the Air Force Files and say, say again said, you know, if we've got no red, no red looks at everything with radar covering the United States, you know, completely. So if they are these things, no red must be detecting them. So, Heinrich said, well, you know, go ask him. So, say good, went to Naurad. And he went to, you know, mountain where the headquarters are and control system, Cheyenne Mountain. And he's explained that, you know, I understand, you guys must have UFOs, they said no. And he said, but, you know, you're tracking everything. We've got these people, you know, high-naked tells me it's got these reports about. And you know, you must have UFO reports. You must be detecting something. They said, yeah, but we don't call them UFOs. So we have no UFOs. It doesn't show up in the fires. Somebody says, keyword, UFO. No right doesn't have anything. So Carl Sagan said, what do you guys call them? And we said, we call them UCTs. And he said, what's the UCT? And he said, doctor, it's an uncorrelated target. And he said, how many uncorrelated targets do you get a month? They said about 10,000. What does that mean now? Well, that means that what the Earth is said, look, we're here to look for incoming trajectories of ballistic missiles from Russia. So if there is one data point, system doesn't care. If there are two data points, system starts looking. If there is a third one, It computes a trajectory. If the trajectory looks like an incoming thing, for example, from Alaska over towards Montana, we're going to alert all the fighters. Otherwise, it could be a flock of birds. It could be a weather balloon. It could be anything else. We're not paid to try 10,000 other things. We are here to defend the United States. Well, so who is looking at the other 10,000?

Well, that was, he was waiting for a case like that, you know, I kept telling him, I kept showing him reports from all over the world, okay? And he still said, I can't You know, I believe those reports, I believe we have the same thing in the US. I convinced him that he was waiting for a case where he could convince, say, and manzo, and, you know, Dr. Manzo, had Harvard and his colleagues in science. Because he knew those guys. And they would believe Quintanilla rather than believing Heinrich. And, you know, the problem at Socorro was there was only one witness.

So the craft, yes, and there were theories that this was an experimental thing from white sense. White sense is 30 minutes away. And it's full of things. And there was the other explanation. It was, it's a test for lunar landing system. It doesn't look anything like the lunar lander. And there was a lunar lander. But it was in California. It wasn't in New Mexico.

Pretty close. But tic-tac egg, please subscribe to it.

He wouldn't talk to Heineck until he had gone to the church and spoken to. And it changed his life. It changed Heineck. I mean, at that point, Heineck came back and said, you know, you're right. We have those things. And we have to take it into consideration. So that's really the case. He was waiting for

Yeah, and you know, so Coral happened. Yeah. The day after Heinrich and I left the Air Force Base in Dayton, okay? Right, Patterson. We were there for essentially three days, okay? But we went all day in the vault, you know, looking at the files, so on. And then after that we flew back, you know, both of us flew back to Chicago. And next day, from Quintanila to Ridec, how soon can you be in New Mexico? And he said, why would I go to the Mexico? He said, to something landed in Socorro, and you were there. They landed when it happened, just when we were leaving the Air Force base. And I mean, there is nothing you can do about that. I mean, those are coincidences, you know, information coincidences, it just happened.

Well, you found some incredible footage, like the UN, the testimony footage. I live through that with them watching what James was doing to try to, by any means, get to the real actual footage and that's incredible.

Yes.

Yeah, September, September, 1961. New Hampshire.

Well, About a year old so later, they contacted me and Dr. Heinek saying that Betty thought that she was, she had some contact with, you know, the phenomenon that might manifest. It might happen again. And she wanted to do sort of an experiment. So they had some land close to a big lake where they had a little summer place. And so Heinek couldn't go there and asked me to go there. And the Batian Barney, who were there, and Dr. Simon, who was the psychiatrist from Boston, who did the hypnosis of both of them separately, and really broke the case, was with us. And so we drew a big circle in the grass. And I had a telescope with me. I had a little table set up and spent the night there waiting for UFOs and fighting mosquitoes because the time of year in New England you're going to get mosquitoes. We didn't get any aliens, but we had a lot of time to talk and And the next day, spend the next day with Betty and Barney and went through the wrong thing, we listen to the tapes again. And you know, the tapes are terrifying. And there is no question. I mean, people are coming now and saying, well, maybe it was a test, maybe they were, you know, maybe there was a psychological experiment that's not true. I think these people were, their story checks out completely from beginning to end. And I took Dr. Simon aside, and you know, there are lots of stories of people being regressed, hypnotically by whoever, you know. But Dr. Simon was, you know, psychiatrist during World War II for the Army, and he was an expert in hypnosis, and he was a licensed hypnotist. He wasn't just some euphalogists who decided to hypnotize people. which is very harmful by the wind. I don't know why people allow that to happen to that. So I took him aside and I said, Doctor, if I had been sitting there in their car, on the back seat and here is Barney and driving and betting next to him. And they see that, would I have seen the craft stop and all these little beings and the UFOs stopping them on the road and dragging them out? And he said, I have no way of answering that. I can tell you that by the hypnosis that my patients are telling the truth as they experienced it. I cannot tell you what we would have seen if you and I had been there. I cannot make the jump And I've never forgotten that, I mean, there could be a type of experience that some phenomena induce that, you know, just are not reproducible. And that's a toughest type of testimony. And how do you make sense of it? Even if you have physical data, the car did stop. I've never forgotten that dialogue with him.

And I've spoken to quite a few witnesses who said that their car stopped on the road. There's a case, you know, two years ago in France that I investigated. Again, the witness didn't report it to the French authorities. because you know, witnesses don't want to be laughed at. So they think it's useless because the scientists are blogged, they will never look at it. So they just keep it to themselves. But what happened is she was in a car with two teenage girls, her daughter, the daughter of another family. And they were driving and they saw this thing. And I asked her, did you? see any other cows and she said no. And well, this was an expressway in France in broad daylight. There must have been other cows. And that often happens, you know, they suddenly all the sounds stop. You know, the birds don't sing anymore. They don't know dogs barking, you know, in the country side. You know, it's like there's a bubble around you. And this thing happens. You have an experience. And we know there were other cars on that expressway. I mean, there's got to be. And it's like it's a nice, solidity thing outside of, you know, as if there was another time in space.

But you know, it's a gold mine for science. I mean, this is why we need to get the academia. You know, involved.

We just look at the, you know, the fighter pilots and say, well, it's a threat because it went around the fighter by, you know, how many experiences like this, though, are similar, where people have these similar stories where out of nowhere, hundreds, you can talk to any of the groups that gather that kind of data around the world.

This is control, dimension, consciousness, human consciousness, long enough to create an experience. That's what Dr. John Mac, you know, I got to know him quite well.

Well, his book Passport to the Cosmos is an homage to Passport to Magonia, which was my book of many years. We had those conversations.

And that's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for individual cases. I'm a computer science guy. I try to look at patterns and things that will take you to the next level of understanding and to take one case at a time.

John changed. I mean, initially he was, you know, he got interested because there were all these books about hypnosis and so on. done by amateurs or people who are not trained in hypnosis. And he started sort of retraining himself to do hypnosis. I asked him if he had used hypnosis in his practice as a psychiatrist. And he said, no, he had a cross in hypnosis of one week. But he never really practiced it. He's relearned hypnosis with some of the euphalogists who were hypnotizing people. And then gradually found that what they did was very shardy, and was really completely unscientific. I mean, there were some of those books. They were planting the idea, you know. Tell me about the rural areas that you talked to. Yeah. And you don't, if you do hypnosis, you don't lead the witness, you don't do that. So he got disgusted with that and re-did it, started to redo it his way and, unfortunately, that's when he was killed.

He bought initially, he bought the idea that these are aliens from somewhere. I mean, why not? And that they are here to probe our consciousness to understand humans. And then he gave up on that as he learned, as he did more and more interviews. understood more the process and looked at the data.

I think he was on and you whole new track of research.

I think he was, you know, he was coming to maybe I influence him a little bit, but he was coming to my idea that we have to look at more than the extraterrestrial that we see in movies from the 1950s, you know, from the 1950s, that this is not it. I mean, we need something more complex if we're going to get the scientific community involved.

And they are not explorers coming here to pick up a few stones because you know, if they've been, we have 200,000 you know, well, this crowd cases. So why would you come from, and we're exploring Mars, you know, now we're sending a probe, you know, we're sending a couple of probe to the moon, we're bringing back the stones. But we don't do that, you know, every Friday. I mean, once you've done it, you've got it. I mean, why would you keep doing it?

I don't see myself as the scientist to speak on that because I know too much about the work of teams. I've worked with many teams in Silicon Valley. I've financed a number of companies there in medicine, in space research, in computing, of course. The, it takes a team. We need to get what, what I can do is I can bring some of the history like, you know, the so-called thing where I try to help you in, in the movie. But because I know the history, I've met many of these people. I've met the researchers. I know what they went through, including the Air Force officers. I mean, they were under extraordinary pressure. So I can bring that context. I can bring, I would know how to put the AI component on top of the files. But when all the other people would have to work with it to come to a theory.

Well, I'm a student of that material. There is some form of consciousness out there that's teaching us something. You can, I could show you teaching us something. Yeah. Not teaching us something. Like, you know what you have in the movie with those kids. I mean, I asked for the kids are saying.

Well, I could give you a couple of quick reactions. I mean, they're appearing to children. Those children are going to grow up. And they will remember what they've seen and so on. But there is another analytical answer that one of the things I did when I had good databases filtering out. I think we all agree that 90% of the cases I'm not true UFOs, okay? So, you know, there are things that the moon seem through a layer of clouds, ball light and what a ball light thing. What if all the things that the scientists say, yeah, that's true. 90% of it should be removed. Very, very few hoaxes, by the way, very, very few. Because if you're going to come up with a hoax, you're going to come up with something better than that. You can reveal and you can laugh and so on. This is not it. You don't hoax about something that's terrifying that people can shake. I started looking at patterns the way you look at patterns in science. In other words, you do regressions. The phenomenon is not constant. It goes through waves two months of three months over a country like France, over Florida, over Japan, and it's very intense. After about two or three months, they go somewhere else and they disappear. So you have this structure. And I started looking at the structure to see if it correlated with anything we know. So I started looking at, does it correlate with Mars? Mars right now is in the sky because it's close to us. It's a conjunction of Mars. And maybe when Mars is closest to us, we can It's easier for them to come here or something. There is something that happens at Facilitates. That broke down. That correlation didn't quite work. It looked like it was almost correlated but not quite. There is something in psychology called the schedule of reinforcement. If you want to teach, say a chimp, to do something, for example, pick up a ball or something. Every time he picks up the ball, you give him some fruit. So you reward every good action. Works with kids too. I mean, works really well with human beings. That's why we have advertising. But you're reinforced the action that you want to encourage. except that if you reinforce every instance where the chimp picks up the ball, after a while he goes play with something else. And he forgets the experiment. If you want to induce a behavior that will stay there forever, that will never be forgotten. You have to have some randomness. In other words, you don't always reinforce the same thing. And sometimes he picks up the ball, fine, and he doesn't get the food. And, you know, so you make it random. And that, you know, that the psychologists today don't experiment. was Kinder, Dr. Skinner, published all these experiments, and that became gospel for the psychologists, for a lot of psychological experiments. I ran that way of reinforcement of behavior, and behavior control, and that got applied to a lot of different fields. Well, that's what the schedule of UFO cases, if you look around the world, not that just one country, not just that Air Force pilots, or the Navy, or something. You have to look at the whole thing if you want to see that pattern. The pattern is a worldwide reinforcement of behavior. The behavior seems to be You need to let go of some of the things you're doing, and you need to let go of technology that's harmful, and you need maybe to be prepared to go into space.

So places where that reinforcement that's taken place and the appearance of the phenomenon, because the phenomenon is just at the border of what we can recognize, it's a little bit weird. But they are basically humanoid. I mean, they're not monsters with tentacles and so on. They are humanoid. And the people like, you know, Lani, Lani Zamora, and they think that there is a communication. They can look at the eyes of that creature and they get something. They get that reinforcement.

So with some of my colleagues we decided to go back to re-investigate some of the primary cases because there is something missing in all this. We are missing some clues. And so we are about to publish a book called The Best Kept Secret, because some of it, some of what we've uncovered, was kept secret and is still secret. even from, you know, the euphalogists who've really researched all that stuff. It's going to be published, you know, early next year, but we're pre, you know, people can pre-order it on Amazon. It's called the best-capped secret. And what we've done is to go back to some of the key cases and some new cases where we found that there may have been some superficial information about it, but most of the information was kept hidden by the witnesses. Now, you know, we keep talking about cover up by the government, which is true. But the witnesses are not stupid. They don't want to be, you know, laughed at by scientists, you know, six o'clock news. So they meet, give you some report, because they think it's their duty to report something to the police or the Afrosan son. But they won't tell you the whole story. And if you want to know the whole story, you've got to go there, which may take a couple of days. You've done that. And you've got to gain their trust and sit in the kitchen. And if you're lucky, they give you a cup of coffee and you talk. and you talk to their kids and you get to know them and they get to know you and if you're genuine, if they can see that you're not playing any games, you will eventually get the whole story and we've been doing that. And that's what the book is about. And it's going to change history. It's going to change the history of the of the phenomenon. How's it? It builds on the human element.

How is it going to change it? That number one, the structure of the information is amazing, the real structure, not just what the police blotter or the air force teletype. It's not necessarily about the object. It's not necessarily about what somebody heard. You've got to look at and we found especially one case that's extraordinary. The people had never talked. And it came to us and we've been studying it carefully from every angle. And then we've been looking for patterns around that case. Again, that's the best kept secret. People can pre-order it.

I mean, you have to read the book, okay? Well, people read the book, but she would find was a commonality of the structure has to do with the intrusion in the life of someone. This is not something that all by the way I sort of flying saucer yesterday, you know, and now I'm going about by business. how profound the information goes inside the consciousness. Even those pilots are changed. They are changed permanently. And the information that the things stays with them, and you can talk to the witness for years later, which we've done. And it brings back, I mean, their memories completely clear. They know exactly where they were, what they were doing.

They both the materials, and we continue to look at the materials at that level, not simply that, oh, goody, we can take it to the lab, we'll analyze it and we'll pat it and resell it as a new weapon, which is the stupid way of looking at this. These materials earth materials, most cases, we are looking at where the complexity is. and where why they were there at that particular time. That's only one aspect of it. We don't understand why these materials would be associated with an instrument or a vehicle that does what those things do. The situation also is structured in such a way that it ties into our culture. And, you know, in most cases, there is no anthropologist, you know, with the team that goes out there, whether it's a military or scientist or euphalogist, they don't bring in an anthropologist. When you look at the at the traditions, the local traditions. When you look, you can begin to tie the details of the sightings to what would be in the conscious. I saw that in Brazil. In Brazil, you can't just go there and ask people to fill out a questionnaire about how many degrees to the left of the North Pole was it? It doesn't work that way. You have to get into the culture and the phenomenon works on the culture at a very deep level. I think that's what we're showing. So they're taking a part that mechanism.

and changing our behavior.

And a planet that's extraordinarily fragile. I mean, it could be impacted, literally, physically by a lot of things and impacted by our stability. There were three cases in history where the alert went to go bomb the Soviet Union. I mean, three cases where the bombers were recalled, because one guy thought, this doesn't make sense. I mean, he had images, involvement, he left the compound to go outside and, you know, sort of re-adjust and realized that what he was looking at was a simulation of a Russian attack and that the bombers were up and ready to open the other

For a threat. But everything in the defense establishment is oriented towards a threat. You should not have a threat, you don't need all that.

The military has very, very good platforms for observation. You know, like those infrared cameras, like the radar, like all the sophistication that they have, the tracking systems are satellites. That's very useful. But, you know, I'd rather have a cup of coffee with the The guy in his trailer who has seen something and can show me the traces in his backyard, you know, because I can do something with that.

Well, it's a powerful, it's a very, it's a powerful signal.

You know, far away, I mean, we're testing those facilities. So far away, when I was bringing that up, people would say, well, you know, we've got incursions over those platforms to see if the guards are really reacting to detecting a threat and so on, again, the threat. But that's one thing to fly over a nuclear facility or storage area. where you have nuclear bombs, it's another to overcome the code of the missiles one by one. And you have cases in your movie where all the missiles, all the silos will turn off one by one. And as you said, if they had wanted to launch, they couldn't have launched the missiles. That's not something that, you know, is just an exercise. You know, and I'm sure he says a Russian said the same thing.

You know, I don't think I've ever mentioned this to you. It's a little anecdote, but I had a friend who was one of the early researchers in France, an engineer named Amy Michelle, was something of a philosopher, and he was compiling all these data, and he went to the Air Force, and the French Air Force was pretty open with their cases. And the man was a Colonel Claire one. I remember his name. This was from the mid-60s. And they would have lunch, you know, which is a thing you do in France, you know, you have lunch with somebody and then you talk. And he convinced Claire one that, you know, go to your superiors and find out, you know, we should tell the public about this and we should open it up, you know, We should tell them this is going on, okay? And the claim one said, well, you know, it's a good idea. Let's have lunch again in one month, you know, I'll tell you what I find out. They get to the same restaurant a month later, and Amy Michelle says, what did you find out from your superiors? Said, it turned out, I, my superiors told me to go to the Americans. So I went to the U.S. embassy in Paris and I talked to my counterpart in the military and we're not going to open the fires. And the initial said, why not? He said, well, the Americans think that there would be it would open up to many things, you know, that we couldn't control. That society is not ready. That people would be scared, people would panic, You know, religious ideas would float around people with fight each other about, you know, what's happening in their consciousness and in their faith and in their life and we couldn't control it. And, you know, they told us to shut it up.

So the time is right.

I just talked to people on the streets, you know, they're not scared of this.

But we have to make sure that if there is, quote, disclosure, that it's not just the next chapter of the cover-up, because there are things that haven't come out, you know, like Senator Reed told you on your movie. There are things that have not come out that should come out. that have been, again, kept hidden, again, for fear that people would overreact on something. Is there a concern that they haven't told their own superiors?

I don't know, but you could orient it to a message that would be both interesting, but reassuring superficially. And again, organize it around the threat. And again, that message of reacting to the threat makes sense for the military, but the cases that they are working on are only 10% of the database. should look at the other 90%.

You know, so I don't think it would work very well No, but there have been cases where they shot

Please tell us a story because it's amazing. You were right to keep it at that level because In the 80s, they were congressional hearings, not about UFOs, but about something that I was doing professionally, which is building civilian computer networks for crisis management, for industrial crisis management. And we were funded, the company I created, was funded to develop essentially the equivalent of computer conferencing we have today on Facebook. This was way before the web was invented. Again, the mid-80s, to link together all the nuclear power plants in the major countries, five countries including Japan. when it was against the Japanese law to have Japanese data outside Japan and to for them to be on that network, the data had to be on our computer, which was in California. We operated that network for three years and this was a closed network. It wasn't accessible by people outside. It was just operated by the international, you know, industry, essentially, of atomic power. And we, by the way, detected a number of flaws. And this was after the three-mile island accident, you know, that was could have done a lot of damage. And people were scared, and they wanted to share the information. And we were essentially the Facebook equivalent to that industry. So I was asked to testify at the algorithm hearings on emergency management. And another little company, where the only civilians were, are the only non-government people there. All the others were from the three letter agencies, CIA, the NRO, the other agencies, or a FEMA. emergency administration and so on. And that was extraordinary, because those were the top people who would manage an emergency other than war. I mean, they told us, don't even go into the nuclear war thing, because even in nuclear war, most of the damage is environmental damage, which I didn't know. And it's the amount of dust that kills you. It's not necessarily the bomb that kills you. It's what happens after the bomb. So we were just looking at civilian casualties and civilian crises. And there I met a number of people who were the people in the government who would be handling nationwide or international crises. like the Berlin crisis, the people who had been there in the days of the Berlin crisis were there and so how do you structure the information to get all the people who need to know? I mean everybody goes inside into a bunker and then the bunker communicates somehow and then you get in touch with other countries and get their experts and then you try to manage the situation. Like, you know, suppose a big meteorite falls, okay, it's the size of half of Chicago. You know, what do you do after that? And government needs to continue. One of the people there was an expert who had worked under five administrations, managing the structure of crisis management for the U.S. government. He introduced me to Arthur Lundell. Arthur Londow was a legendary member of the intelligence community. He was knighted by the Queen of England. He's one of two or three Americans who were knighted. And then his buddies at the CIA used to call him Sir Arthur of the Light Table, because a lot of the things he did was with negatives, you know, with satellite photographs that were on the light table. He is a one who discovered the missiles in Cuba. and briefed President Kennedy showed him where that was and why there were missiles and not just trees. It takes a lot of training. It turns out you can just look at one of those pictures and see. Ah, you know, that's a missile. He was he one who told, who was sent by the US to brief Charles the Gold, President the Gold. about the U2 shutdown over the Soviet Union. And we became friends. We became friends because I was introduced by the people from the Algor hearings. They knew what I was working on. And he had been a pioneer within the intelligence community in getting all the He started the Air Force's Image Interpretation Center in Washington. For the Navy, the Air Force, CIA and the other places. He told me about 1952. He was very interested in UFOs because he had seen photographs. I mean, he was the Armed Forces Photo Interpretation Center, epic. He was getting all those things. He had all the clearances from all the services. He didn't tell me the whole story, but he told me number one that those things had been photographed. He told me that at the Robertson hearings, he had the Mariana movie. He gave it to the committee. The committee took it somewhere and analyzed it. They said they were sea goals. When he got the film back, the first, the first 20 frames were missing from his film. From the CIA film, the CIA laboratory analysis of the film.

So that's actually the level of the cover-up at that point that they would do that to their expert. And then we talked about 1952. The 1950 to the official explanation came from Dr. Manzol and Harvard. Those were inversions of temperature over Washington. We'd get hot over Washington. And this photographs of these, right? There was no phone. There was no photographs of what's not appeared over the White House. But there were no, there were, you know, They were striking, radar tracking on it, and they interpreted the radar as being inversions of temperature multiple times. But they sent, of course, they sent the Afros after it. Well, he said one of the pilots got permission to shoot, was authorized to shoot, and shot a piece of metal out of one of the disks. Those were disks, were flying. They didn't care about the defenses, they flew over the White House, They flew over the major facilities down to Washington that are forbidden. I mean, there is no law of a flight. And so they had to do something and they shot it. The thing was recovered.

the piece of metal was recovered. He told me, you know, I really shouldn't talk about what happened after that. There is no question that there was a piece of metal recovered from that encounter and then it was shut off, you know, flying this over Washington in 1952. And all the explanations that were given to the scientists and to the public were BS.

And I finally said, I kept, you know, maybe at some point out, be able to tell you where the where it is the the piece but those are things when when would you be able to do it yeah do it now why when you what was you want to wait i i think some of the you know i i respect the need for certain things to be managed in a particular way. And it wouldn't really add to the story to talk about that. In the book, we go a lot further in talking about what those materials are, what the questions are, what the questions are from science, but also what the questions are for disclosure, it varies over disclosure. But there isn't going to be one big disclosure that says, we've got contact with aliens from Alpha Centauri. These closures come in layers. Everybody needs to get around.

So, you know, the last time I left in 1952. 1952 was a disaster for the Air Force, because they realized that their lines of communication, which were already a network, it was a network of teletypes. were saturated by people reporting UFOs, including Air Force bases reporting UFOs. And somebody thought if the Russians were to simulate a UFO thing, by throwing artificial things in the sky or whatever, and they could saturate the communication and we couldn't deploy the defense system. So we've got to do something about it. to reduce the level of reports from the public. So they created, they called together five of the top scientists in the land, you know, felt on page, Lou Alvarez, people like that. Nobel Prizes, people who knew the nuclear secrets from the days of up and high marines, and they brought them to discuss what they should do, and the be briefed by Artlundal. That's where he lost his 20 pictures, which were the best pictures from the beginning of the film. He never saw again. That's where Heinek testified that Heinek was, as he says, cooling his heels in the anti-Chember in the Arabi, and they would only bring him in for a couple of things before the scientists. The long story short, the outcome was a classified recommendation to explain a way most of the phenomena to the public, to reduce a number of reports. So the idea wasn't to make the problem go away. It was to make the reports go away because the reports were clogging up the communication channels that were vital to the defense of the country. That bit sense. I mean, there is usually some reason why the military does something. Sometimes it's not obvious, but in this case it was logical. So Heinek was there and Heinek had a bunch of papers from his testimony and so on. After my PhD at Northwestern, I had an office at the Computing Center. There's a whole summer coming, and I offered to Dr. Heinek to reorganize these files, which were a complete shambles. And so he says, sure, I mean, that would be great. You can put it in new folders. So I buy new clean folders and I start going for all the files because we had copies of, you know, essentially 20,000 reports from the Air Force that were unclassified. And so I make these new things, and I put everything back in order. I also punch the cards for that, so that we have the database at the same time, which I still have. And with the names of vertices, by the way, which I find this folder, which is full of stuff, and in it there is two pages, an onion skin, everybody. I mean, your audience, I'm sure your audience has no idea what an onion skin is. You know, when you have a typewriter, a hand typewriter, and you want to make several copies, you put a carbon between, and the first page is your letter, and the others are, you know, thin paper, you know, that thin paper is called an onion skin. Of course, now we have computers, so we don't, we don't need carbon copies, so it's a carbon copy of a memo. From somebody I've never heard of, to somebody in the intelligence community, saying we should not have that panel, because we are not ready. And which is interesting by itself. I mean, who are these people who want to stop the stop level scientific panel of, you know, the state's defense establishment? I mean, who do they think they are? The other thing about the memo is that it's step secret. At that point, I still have a French passport, and I have a green card. So I'm legally in the United States, but I'm not even a U.S. citizen. I became a U.S. citizen. You had to wait five years before you could be applied for a citizenship. But I certainly didn't have any reason to look at the secret memo. But I started reading it. Because I need to tell Heinek that this shouldn't be here, shouldn't be in my five. Heinek told me that he had not only had the forgotten that memo, but he didn't think he had ever seen it. That if he had seen it, that would have changed some things. Well, it turned out that group turned out two things. Number one, that Robinson panel was not brought together by the Air Force, was brought together by other people in the intelligence community. The Air Force was recovered. The scientists were never told that. They didn't know that. So you bring together the top, you know, top clearance, top physicists in the US, including a couple of Nobel Prizes, and you don't tell them who you are. Wow, okay. This, this, this, this.

It wasn't even a nation's speech, it was a contractor. The contractor, they had a contractor to look at UFOs. And what they were saying is, you know, it's a good idea to bring these edges, but this is premature. We're not ready to tell them about their patterns. It's always about these were top-level computer people in 1954. They were working with punch cards, but punch cards work, I mean, you know, there's nothing wrong with punch cards. They wanted to bring the best information and then had ideas that they wanted to discuss about how to test their hypotheses about what UFOs are. The Robertson panel went on, ignored that memo, it went on, and it concluded that they should discount the reports from the public, and they should look at instrumentation from the military, which is what people are doing now. We see the military with these advanced cameras, the limits, all those things that are in your movie. and they've discounted reports, they kept Project Blue Book growing so that the public would have a place to write if they saw something, but it was a very low level thing.

Well, the memo, so when I discussed it with Heinig, and I got only one other person in the confidence, the memo came from an organization in Ohio called Batel Memorial Institute. Top organization on the analysis of metals. They were the ones who invented titanium aluminum. They were the ones who invented some of the coatings and some of the metals used in spy planes, like that were used later in the U2, in the SL-71, in those undetectable airplanes and so on. They were at that time the experts. They were also the experts on UFOs because they had a contract with the Air Force. And I think that memo, which I really didn't want to expose, but I would have written that memo. I mean, that conference was an attempt to cover up the reality. And what the battle scientists were saying was, wait a minute. We need to look on the ground. We need to simulate a UFO wave. See what the statistics are. That's going to take another year. Don't convene that meeting now. And they were over-written.

Yeah, but at that point, the different palaces were not communicating.

I shouldn't talk about that. I think the book talks about how complicated it is to get, once you get the metals or the samples or whatever, what do you do with it and what does it mean?

Well, because I'm not, I don't have the complete information. Obviously, that was classified. I'll turn down, tell me that because number one, he knew that I knew the rest of the story, Number two, I had just testified before a congressional panel on crisis management for the United States of America. So he knew that I understood how those things happened, you know, how they are managed. But there is plenty of other metal. I mean, I don't really care about that particular metal.

What do we have? With others from Argentina from Brazil, you said there was something from Russia, but has it been proven you were talking about? When I say we talking about my buddies and the lab we have in Silicon Valley, but these other people have similar things.

Not when I've looked at so far.

The condition under which they were found and the reports from the witnesses about what they did.

the characteristics of the metal arguing to be the same ones that we find on earth because iron from from mouse or Venus is like right iron you can pick up but let's go back to the time we talk about that one particular silicone if it is made she neared yes at the atomic level for saying 1954 at a level where our technology hadn't evolved to the point of, for example, separating the isotopes.

Yes, not me, but some of my colleagues believe that they found things like that. but they only had a tiny amount. I went to Argentina and I got more of this stuff because there is still some stuff there. And I brought back test tubes with enough material that we are going to be testing it again.

The the the metal that was found in in Brazil where people described an object flying over and then an explosion that showed some of it fell in the water some of it fell in the sand on the beach some of it fell on rooftops and so there was a lot of stuff And for a long time, we only had a pinhead where for stuff. Which is good enough for one measurement. But people told me you can't come here with one measurement. You need 20 different machines, different things, different techniques if you want to do it right. So that's what we're doing.

Well, the one that I'm talking about was 57, over Ubatuba in Brazil, and other groups have the similar thing, and will compare notes. But what was found was that one of the components of the magnesium, one of the isotopes of the magnesium, was way over what it would be in nature, in the natural magnesium, which means somebody took it apart and reformulated the magnesium.

Yes, and also ignites in contact with air. So it blows up easily. And the reason our sample doesn't blow up is that there is oxide. It oxidizes very quickly. So there is a layer of magnesium oxide on top of it. And the analyses, some of the analyses that have been done We indicate that, number one, it's extremely pure, pureer than the Dow standard for magnesium. But again, if you go to see a physicist, you'll say, well, I can buy the Dow standard, and I can't we find it further. In my lab, it's Dow chemical, they supply metals to everybody. They never had a commercial need for that. But if I have a need for that, I can do it. So that doesn't prove anything. But if we can verify it, and if we can look at the ratio of the other isotopes and so on, highly precisely, which we can do now. But that hasn't been done yet. No. No. We'll do it in the next few months.

Correct.

Well, because people solve the thing crash.

Yeah, but if they come up with if they say this thing crashed, you know, you've got ordinary people in Brazil in that little town. You've got the police. You've got the, you know, telling you that this thing fell and hearings were stuff. You take the stuff to the left.

But he said an awful matrix of awful silicate that he couldn't probe within his lab. And obviously, but there would have been a logical place to look at that because they had all the people who signed that memo were metallurgists. So that makes you think of something.

Well, again, this is human testimony. Yes. You know, this scientist from that company with that matrix of orthosilicate, the Air Force Colonel who told me about the thing he could lift with one finger, you know, a whole wing. You know, Colonel Kroso with the stuff that he recovered, that he was given by the army. I mean, initially the Army had had the project to analyze this and write that to the war and that he gave to the different labs. What we need to do is go through the normal scientific publication process. Why hasn't this happened? Every time somebody tried, Dr. Heinek tried, they wouldn't publish it.

I don't know of any biological evidence. That's what would like a body you mean. Well, we don't even need a body. I mean, you need a saliva from a mouth. I mean, we can do the DNA.

At the Agore hearings, about emergency management, the question of the satellites came up. And somebody said one of the Congress people. We pay you guys to deploy these satellites and you look at the Earth all the time with 10 centimeters resolution. So if you see something you should be able to, that could be a crisis, you should be able to tell us if it's going to threaten the population of the United States. There was one guy there who didn't laugh because he was respectful of the committee, but he said, we will do respect. I cannot enter this audience. I cannot tell you where I work, but there are three letters to my employer. What I can tell you is that I measure Every morning, the amount of snow that has fallen on the nose of the statue of Georgian ski in downtown Moscow in front of their headquarters of the KGB. I can measure, I can tell you how much snow fell that night because I measured. So that tells you the kind of instrument that we have. I'm by regulation, by law, I must turn off my satellite when it flies over the United States. I'm not spying on your house. If you authorize me to run the satellite, to run the, you know, acquisition, I could tell you when there is going to be a flood in Arizona. because I measured the amount of the snow that fell on the rockies last night. And we've got these climate prediction schedules. We can approximately tell you where it might melt and where it's going to go when it melts and how big the reservoirs are going to be. And when the reservoirs are going to overflow, that I'm not authorized by law to And if I looked at it, I wouldn't be authorized to disclose it to you because you're not cleared for the characteristics of my resolution of my device. you know in March I'm going to be sitting with my wife and my kids looking at the TV and I'm going to see this woman in Arizona with her two babies in her arm up to here in a kitchen up to here in water because they dance and it's flooded because it happens every winter because snow melts so it comes down But I'm not authorized to tell her. And even if I told her, I would have to tell the governor. The governor would have to tell the sheriff. And the sheriff would have to disclose, you know, send somebody in the house. But did he say? Now four levels of management.

No, no, no. Well, we were not talking about you.

We were not talking about.

Well, No, I'm saying why if they're picking up your phone, why they're not telling us? They can't even tell us when they're going to be a flood in Arizona.

That's not how long that was saying about

Yeah, I think we can preorder you know the best kept secret and when will that be another one it will be probably Q one or early Q two of twenty two beautiful.