Transcript for #2114 - Zack Snyder

Oh, it's cool. Well, first of all, I appreciate that because the You know, 300 was a complete labor of love and insane. Like, you know, 300 was, I was a Frank Miller fan for a long time, right? And I, I thought the, I thought I would do another, I thought I would do Dark Knight Returns. Frankly, that was the movie I wanted. I still want to do it. I always tell everyone like, Dark Knight Returns. If I could do Dark Knight Returns, I'd be done with comic book movies. Really? Well, because like, If you've done watchmen, oh sorry, I'm banging them like this. If you do watchmen and dark night returns like for me, you're your legacy is set. So like that number is a superman literally steals a lot of dark night returns. I'm not going to say it didn't it did, but it's still not dark night return. So I think that's still out there. But I always you know for a long time I had that I had 300 like on my coffee table at my house when I was making TV commercials you know and I'd have my friends over and be like I'm gonna make this one day it's gonna look exactly like this comic book and they be like yeah yeah you're sure it is and yeah I was having a general meeting with Gianni Nenari who was one of the producers and he was asking me about what I like and he had that graphic novel in his office like on his table and I went well okay you know what if I could do anything that book right there I would make that because well what do you mean how would you make it night literally just open it up and I go we make we'd film this we'd film these pictures would look like this and he goes okay that's cool like so you're saying you would just shoot the movie and it would look like this graphic novel I go that's what I'm saying And I think, and that's what, but at the time we couldn't sell it. We tried. We went around town with it. We tried it. I literally, we went to all the studios. You know, they were all kind of, kind of like, yeah, sword and sandals. Yeah. Wasn't it the same time that Troy was being made? It was exactly the same time of Troy. And when we went to Warner Brothers originally with it, They literally were like, we have, we have Troy. So why would we want this? We have Brad Pitt. Like literally Brad Pitt is in our movie. What do you? I go, we're gonna do something crazy. We're not even gonna shoot it outside. And they were like, what? Okay, you're nuts. And I go, yeah, we're not going to go for one shot outside. We ended up going for one shot outside for this when the Persian passengers are coming that super high speed shot with the horses were kind of coming over the hill. We shot that outside because we just couldn't get the horses going fast enough in the it's the shot right before this, I think. Oh, no, it's this one. That's it. It's that shot. So that shot was the horses. That was a high speed shot. We do the photosonic outside. But that was it. That's like the only shot outside.

Because we're going to get the horses pass in the inside. Yeah. And it was too expensive. That was a low-budget movie. You know, we couldn't get 300 was a low-budget movie. Yeah, because we, I mean, we shot it all on stage 60 days. Like that's like why there's no directors cut of of watch of 300 is because we every frame of film, we shot this in the shot of the 60 days 60 days.

Yeah. That's insane. It was we were just we almost killed us, but it was it was fun. But yeah, so when we took it the Warner Brothers, they were like. You know, finally, well, what happened was I did dawn of the dead, and then from dawn of the dead, I was supposed to do, I am legend, right? And I am legend was this movie that was at Warner Brothers that they were like, what do you think? And then for some, there was some kind of crazy mix up and they ended up giving that movie to someone else. And then I think they felt bad or whatever. And they said, well, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I really still want to do 300. And so we shot that test shot. I think it's on the DVD. There's a test shot we did. And they said, OK, if you can make the movie look like that, go do it.

Sorry. Yeah, I don't think it was like, look, green screen photography was like a well-known way to make a movie visual effect on the movie. Yeah, I don't know about a whole movie. You know, that was weird. I always say like, they go like, well, what innovations? Like, what? And I always go like, it's basically the same technology that the weatherman uses, you know, like, you know, when he stands in front of the green screen and says, like, oh, the fronts coming in from the north, you know, it's literally, yeah, it's literally the same, it's literally the same technology, you know, as, as it, because look, that could easily you could put like the weather behind that guy right there and do the same. That's that's Eli. That's my son. He's now making movies. He was the second director on Rubble Moon. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, he's he also plays the young Rorschach in in Watchman and really yeah like the baby Rorschach.

Because like, you put your kid in the movie and I always was like, let's have Eli do that because it's easier, you know? Like, he has to like beat the other kid up. Just Eli's better, because like, I don't have to talk to like some, you know, other, because like actually there's a scene to watch when you know where he bites the kid's face. And he pulls the flesh off the face and I go, you know what? Let's just get easy to do it because then I could just be like, okay, he bite this. Now pull it like ripping off. Right. The only of troubling part of that is that there was a scene that we did in that movie where the, you know, because Worshack's mom was a prostitute, right? So there's that scene where Worshack's mom in the flashbacks, like, I should have had that abortion, right? And she slaps him in the face, right? Because he hears mom as he heard in you, like, because she's having sex with some John in there. And then she opens the door and she's like, you know, He's like, you see, here did you? I sure had that abortion slapped him. And I had wanted the mother to be topless in that scene. And they were like, nah, you can't have, and it's cool because his mother was visiting set that day. And his mom was there. And she was like, oh, you're putting our son in a movie. We weren't together at the time. His mom and I, but we're really close friends. But she was an actress and I said, And they would the only way that the woman can be topless is if it was actually his mom. And I was like, oh, I go to the knees.

I go, come on, it's for the drama. It's not like

And I was like, come on, I would have been awesome.

Yeah, that's cool. At the time, probably. Now I think we could, now I think we could have, yeah, I think we could have. If I, if I'd wanted to do it now, I think that's how you would do it. You do it like with like some sort of chest rig and they would paint them out and then redo the boobs. That'd be, that's a good idea actually.

Zero CGI in the body. Really? We did not have a money on so many people.

So much shit. I swear to God, I'm like, you know, you did bark twice on the show and then Mark will tell you, you know, Mark trained the guys. Mark's like this amazing. He's like, I've known Mark for years and he's an incredible alpine climber. He's like this, he's just like this insane, he can shoot, he can fucking, he can do anything that anyone can do. And like when I asked him to train the guys, he's like, this sounds like Hollywood bullshit, like train actors for a movie, like they're all fakers, they're all liars. And I'm like, look, you, you will make them honest. And so he's like, all right. So he started training everybody. Yeah, there's Mark right there. And the hits Jim was called Jim Jones, right? Like just as an example of like how hard he is. But yeah. And so like, you know, he had trained all these seals. And you know, basically it was basically the same thing that he was doing with the seals. He did with these actors. And so a prerequisite had to be imagined.

Some teeny bit of shape. A couple of guys came to us, they were pure actors, but 90% had some shape. How much time did you have to work with them? I'm trying to remember, normally what I like is at least five weeks. I like five weeks, and I'll take more if you'll give it to me. Sure for a film, but I'm trying to prepare physically. I'm talking about before the film starts at two months or three months, I like before the film starts of the training.

It never is. These guys trained at W's hard and they knew a lot of them were athletes anyway, so they came in with like, and Jerry had had more time. And Jerry trained with his own guy. Jerry didn't train with Mark. But like, yeah, so You know, it depends like, you know, Henry Cavill, Mark trained Henry for Superman. And that was a real, that was longer. I think that was three months or four months. But yeah, it's never enough time because you just can't get it. And like actors, you know, they just ideally, you know, you'd have a you know half a year six months would be perfect really at least that yeah I mean just to get you you know visibly, you know, I would say the one thing is like, I would say the one thing about movies is that, and the thing about Mark that I love was that he went to psychological war with the actors in the best possible way, you know, like he, what he was looking for, he would always say I'm going to put you in your pain cave and you're going to find out a lot about yourself. when you're in there, right? And then when you come out of the workout, you're gonna grow. You know, I'm gonna grow you here. And some people, some people just don't, they don't like that. Especially people who haven't, like, you know, if you just isn't like a lifestyle that they've chosen, you know?

I think it works with actors because he makes it part of the crucible of the performance. And I think if you can connect it to the performance, it makes the training mean something. I've always been like a sort of bodybuilding fan, like in the 80s. I trained with this guy in the 80s who was just like a teacher that lived, you know, this guy J. Martin lived in Grinch, Connecticut, where I grew up. He was a teacher at this school called Grinch Country Day, which was near the boarding school that I went to. And I was like, you know, everyone expected me to be like, I played soccer. I was like an athlete. I was really, but then I sort of got into like weight training. I was like, that's what I want to do. Everyone thought I was insane. But like, you know, I think it was, it was my meeting Jim and Jim being like, because Jim had this, in the basement of Grinch Country Day, there was like this weird old Jim and like, you know, Chris Dickerson and like, you know, my cats, all these like crazy 80s bodybuilders would show up and train with them and it was like this weird, I'd be like this awesome. And like we went to the Olympia, like he took us to the Olympia in New York City. I don't know what year was that like 82 or three, I forget what year. But anyway, it was just really cool. And I was just in the scene. And then, of course, I was like, you know, Schwarzenegger, I read his book, Education of a Body Builder. You know, it's a weird notebook. Did you get involved in the body building yourself? I mean, I trained with Jim because I thought, like, okay, yeah, maybe I'll be a bodybuilder one day. That'd be cool. Like, you know, but of course, I was also painting. And I remember when I was a senior in high school, after I graduated I went to London for a year to art school to paint and I lost like 40 pounds of muscle in that in that year just like literally I was in like the best shape of my life went to England to be a painter and like literally just eight baked beans on toast for a year and like started that but I was like this is amazing you know like I'm an artist you know but it was it was definitely it definitely put a put a yeah but I always had the like but I always had that aesthetic You know, bug in my head. And now I have my trainer now is this guy, Alessandro. He trained everyone for a rebel moon. And he's like this. He's like six in his early sixties, Italian was a bodybuilder. It was a power lifter became a bodybuilder. And he's like, you know, he's just like this. He's so hard, Italian, no bullshit. Like, you know, he was cool because during the training for rebel moon, one of the actors was like, I have an idea for a workout. Do you want to hear it? He's like, I have an idea for a movie.

And they'd say, like, hey, can you come and look at me, you know, I have a contest coming up in the bathroom and they go in there and the guy take a shirt off and he'd be like, how long till the competition? Oh, they go. You'd be like, I got two months till the competition. And I was hard to be like, I think next year for you is going to be better. You know, it's like, oh, you know, he has no problem saying, you know, like, I think I need to lose like 40 pounds more like 80 Jesus. He's like, he's hard, but he's, but he's awesome. He's like, no bullshit. He's like, I, I, I think he's, and like, you know, he trained the guys for a moment and he's like a pure aesthetic. Trainor like pure aesthetic, you know, he's just going for a little scene everything, you know, and he just like okay You know, your abs could be sharper, you know Yeah, that's a weird thing.

Just let's know the thing about Johnny Coleman, you see like guys that are just incredibly swollen where they can't like their muscle balance, they can't. And he could like always just like, he could just like touch his like back his head, let's get him back. I'll sign draw was in a competition with him, night of the champions, I think in San Francisco, and he said like he goes, I come from Italy, I like, I'm in my first competition. I like pull a card and I'm like realize like I'm next to Ronnie Coleman and me. I'm like he's like great this is fucking perfect and he goes like the guy you know like how bodybuilders like the whole thing is about your skin being super thin so everything like shows he goes he goes I saw him backstage and I thought you know what skins like not there it's not gonna happen he goes but then like you know he like So much muscle he's like pulls and it's just like he's like oh my god like we're how is it possible that the skin just can't the muscle so thick just like pushes all stretches all stretch and everything that you do with him just relaxing like backstage you thought ah you know, I'm more ripped in him but then like he's like no way.

The only thing that's the thing that we can all learn from the bodybuilders is like I think that just now in sort of everything that's happening like with longevity and like all this like the bodybuilders will do stuff. to their bodies that nobody else would dare. They'll do dosages that no one will do. And so like, it's cool to say like, okay, if you want to know what quadruple the dose of anything does, just ask those guys. I'll tell you because I think, you'd be like, okay, this is the most you could take and then it's toxic. Oh, cool. I'll take triple that and see what happens, you know, because they're all searching for like the magic bullet.

Well, and also they do die all the time, so it's not.

Like Dorian, how can you be great shape? Yeah, and how can you have been on the edge of it for so long? Yeah.

Yeah, and I think that healing, the science behind healing is, you know, it's changed so much. Leaves and bounds. Leaves and bounds, and I think that really that's where the future is. In my opinion, like how we learn to heal is really how we learn to like really stay, you know, active and like getting stuff done for longer because like the recovery is the whole thing, you know. Oh, 100%.

It's awesome. If I were putting a movie, the cool thing is that you show up, you work out, they hand you food. They like massage you. It's like the greatest. Oh, that's great.

Oh, they're just a pro athlete. And you're like in training camp, you know.

We were just in Greece this summer too. And it was cool because we were like in Athens and we were walking up this part of the lawn. And I noticed like all the gift shops they have like Spartan shit and I'm around. And I go, I said to the guy, I go, I'm sorry about that.

And I got to apologize for all this Spartan stuff in here. And she goes, yeah, it's a fucking movie 300.

And she goes, no. And I go, yeah, and then she was like, That's awesome.

Well, the thing is, like, also I met a lot of like, a lot of seals, a lot of like first responders as you can imagine, really, really You know, I've seen a lot of Spartan tattoos, you know, because of that, you know, and I'm proud that, you know, that they find some sort of like inspiration to, you know, I don't know, every man wants to be. Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, Uh, you knew who to look to to find out whether to burn the whole thing down. Yeah. And, uh, you know, she gave me the okay.

in a way that just like wow yeah that's the thing that people are always like you know with me and they ask me like what about the morality of the movie what do you think of it and I go like Sparta is also another planet like if you like we can't we would not make it right right to say like oh yeah cool like with the Spartans I would they would chuck me off the cliff like day one you know it's not like a It's hard for us to imagine. Like you want to like say, yeah, I'm with the Spartans in this, but like, you know, they, they were, they were brutal people from the Trump tool. They were a tool. Yeah. Like we have democracy maybe because they existed, but they weren't necessarily democratic. They didn't. there was no voting on whether or not we would like go in and die like that was just like what they wanted you know that was in there like you know in their basic genetic makeup or in their philosophical makeup was like okay a beautiful death If I can get one of those, I'm good. Yeah. I won't give it to you. You got to take it. Right. Yeah. That's a, I love that like fast pender when he's like looking down and he says that whole thing about like, you know what's awesome is that with all the world's armies, you know, there's got to be one guy down that fucking place that can kill me. and do it right, you know? And they're like, are you serious? Like, that's what's turning you on. You're excited about the fact that the guy that kills me might be down there.

It's like all these crazy sports teams have Spartans as they're like mascots.

Yeah, the crypto, like they, they, you know, the whole thing, like where they, they would send you like around seven, you'd go on the agoggy, you'd go like into the wilderness. And you're basically living among other kids that were between like seven and 13. And you're just were like wild. And the sort of elite of those groups were called the kryptae. And the kryptae would come down and just kill hellouts whenever they wanted. Like they were encouraged. The hellouts were that slave class that the Spartans sort of maintain Spartan society. And these guys, these kids, imagine like if you lived, you know, in the hills, you knew there was just like this 13-year-old gang of 13-year-olds that were gonna just come down and murder you at any moment. And they were encouraged to do it because they like, and also the hell that's were fine, if the hell that's killed them, that was fine. Because that meant that they weren't good enough. And then they would have this like, they did this ritual with this like table of cheese. We're like all these Spartan warriors would stand around the table and all the 13 year olds who are ready to like transition to becoming true Spartans. You'd have to like try and get and pull a piece of cheese off this stone table and the Spartan warriors who guard at the table could do anything to stop you. And it was just like just beating the crap out of these 13-year-olds. And finally, like, you know, if you got it, then you were given to a Spartan soldier who raised you. And basically, the idea was that he was your lover, he was your teacher, he was everything to you. Because the Spartans believed that, you know, really, they believed that you you would die for your brother if you were also lovers, you know, they thought that like, if you were confused about why we're fighting, fight for that guy who's not only your best buddy, but like, there's like a story, I guess, where they were like, the part when the Persians first came, they sent a scout over and that, and they looked down at the Spartans right, the night before the big battling goes, he went back and he goes, they were all like, I mean, it's actually another was like a weird, like, We're going to be good. One of the Spartans kings was the old Spartan king was now working with the Persians. They're saying goodbye to each other. You know what that means? We're completely screwed. Like, we're gonna get murdered tomorrow, you know, like, and they were like, you're nuts. You don't know what you're talking about. Like, they're a bunch of softies. Like, let's go get them.

Yeah, I have to be gay. Well, there's precedent. So I don't know. There is precedent.

Yeah. Well, by the way, in the end, the Spartans had a real problem because they couldn't we talk there's this really crazy thing like we're on their wedding night. They would have to shave the head of the year bride and dress her like a man and she would fight you because there was no. That was the only way they could get it.

Oh, because they need it. I can let they got like Unless they got like a bloody lip, you know, they were like, not if we're gonna happen. So it's in that crazy. So you can imagine that it was hard to like keep the, you know, generate enough offspring with that. Like you had an awesome army. Right. They were fucking the best, but like you, your, as far as your procreation was going, it wasn't.

well they had to run the whole show because basically the guys were just training so they all the commerce and like the deals they were making to like you know okay we're gonna make a trade deal with this that was all done by the women because like the guys were like no we got to work out

Yeah, you got to love them with it.

Yeah. Do anything. It's different. It's totally different. I did that in Rebel Moon. There's a bit. where I put that there's a part where Sophia's character says like that they basically say they encouraged me to find a lover in the military academy because when the politics of war became too abstract like okay take that beach or like climb that mountain a lot of times you know soldiers like what why like there's no why but like if you're but if you have a lover who's next to you who's your life and if they get killed or they're in danger you're you get you know yeah you're gonna be back on it you're back on it yeah and I think that it's an interesting we don't of course in our modern society we don't play with that aspect of You know, in war, we try not to anyway. We seem not to, you know, like with using the relationship to create a bond. So it's an intro, I mean, like, there's, there's camaraderie, brotherhood. Of course.

And maybe that's, maybe that's good.

Yeah, absolutely. We'll make a movie about it.

Well, as soon as, like, you know, what is that Einstein thing? You know, forward war three is fought with nuclear weapons. We're four. We fought with rocks. Yeah, sticks and rocks. You know, so it's like, yeah.

Oh, yeah, no. That's why, I mean, like, I'm very, I very much encourage any NASA programs that are, you know, with their, they got their telescopes pointed into the stars. And like, oh, here comes one. Let's see if we can go get it.

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, they're like, oh, yeah, we don't.

And also, the thing is, we don't know, say we had one of those 300 years ago, which in cosmic time is not that long ago. It's nothing. And we didn't have the infrastructure to know that it would happen. We were just a bunch of guys hanging out. So we were just like, well, that's a weird, the Aurora Borealis is pretty strong today. Yeah, that's cool. But now we're like, oh, shit, our computers are fried. So it's like a whole different. Yeah.

We didn't. Well, because we, because also the equipment got built, it didn't get, it got built over time. It was like a slow, you know, this made this and this made that. And we relied on this. So now we met this. Yeah, we're like, we don't, we built like our house of cards like pretty pretty pretty quickly too.

I don't think there is a foundation.

I liked that also we were like we thought we were geniuses by putting all that online. Yeah, well, make the grid automated. No, don't do that. It's much better when there was just a guy throwing switches. Yeah, he's not gonna. You can't do anything to him. Just guard that guy.

Yeah. Paper books are still kind of work, but yeah, a lot of the modern like innovations are probably even in paper books.

Well, it's funny because like the movies, for instance, one of the things is I always archive a film print of all my movies because the digital storage of movies, if you ask anybody in even in the business, they don't know. whether in ten years you'll be able to play a movie that you have now like whether you physically or what or how it degrades all those things they don't know and so I'm like I that's why I make film prints because I'm like I know that like we keep it that we keep the film prints in the in the uh... in this, you know, locker, and you can at least pry them out and always have it. But like, I just think it's crazy that we don't know whether the movies will exist. It's a crazy thing to worry about.

It's in the cloud. Why are you worried?

But it makes people feel safe because it makes them feel good because it's like the cloud is so reliable and so like and also a thing you don't need to worry about or understand. It's also beautiful to fluffy into the blue sky and all your infos safe in there. And nothing can hurt it. It's up for everything. It's just a portion.

It's like when you show your kid a vinyl record, right? I show him my kids a vinyl record and they're like, this is incredible. How does it work? I'm like, well, the needle kind of bounces up and down on that on those grooves and makes sound. It sounds like it sounds like a song. And they're like, that's That's insane. No, that's not insane technology. Your iPod or your fucking phone. That's insane technology. That's, that's a thing you can't, that doesn't even, you can't explain this to me. Okay. I can, I just explained that to you.

I just listened to that the other day. Is this going to get us some trouble with YouTube?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got out and now it's over.

Yeah, and he loves that.

What is this guy said to him? The guy at the gym said, are you a percent that body fat? He goes, if I was a percent body fat, I'd kill myself.

But that's his thing, though, like he literally is like, I'm in space. You know, like, we get stuff from the space program. You know, like, they, like, we figure out how a razor works or like, get shaving cream that keeps the hairs from plant. That's what he is to me. Like, he's like, I'm up here on the ragged edge. So I can come, I could give you this information back.

Yeah, and he's in a 60 so it's like, you know, you're like, okay, this guy can have legs like that in 60 so Give me some, give me a little, give me a little, give me a little of the knowledge. And he's funny too because he's like, look, I don't have a family, I don't have kids. This is what I do.

I just get jacked and I like research, I test my body constantly. He's like on the ragged edge with every single like, you know, like he's always making these small adjustments. He goes, I ate a sesame seed and I saw that I was a little less ripped. You know what? because it's like oh he's constantly like you know like it's like he's on a razor's edge which I love you know like that's what I'm saying is that like you can the little that that those little pieces of information they tell you about like oh you know like whatever I'm taking this or like I thought about this and I experimented with that and you're like okay like Thanks. Thanks for being out there.

You know, thanks for being the oxygen mask like up on on the stratus. Yeah, the possessed mad genius. Yeah, it's they by the way, the world's made of that.

Did he have an actual gas force anyway? Like it was like that. Well, he's a very strong guy.

Yeah, it goes like you're saying like, yeah, like you understand, but like at that point, you're in the rhythm, you understand your body, you know, like, okay, I've heard today. I know how to do this, but we're always learning. We're always going to, we're not going to stop learning. We're not going to stop understanding. That's the one thing that's crazy about YouTube, too, is that this idea that there's a resource, you know, like it used to be to find a technique or to learn something, you have to go to the guy's house, fucking sleep on his porch, He's not going to fucking train you. He's going to slap you around like whatever. We're now like these kids today. They get like a lot of their shit, the basic shit. They can, they're like, I'm learning this. I can learn something that I had no access to.

Put it in the workshop and let's see what happens.

Well, that's what I mean. And that's true of a lot. That's true of a lot of things now. I had this recently at this crazy Fortnite addiction right now. I was like, no. I started playing Fortnite with my son who's 10 and he was like, nah, he tapped out immediately. And I was like, well, you should come back because I'm just, this is kind of cool. So I'm playing and then three months later, I'm like, what the fuck is matter with me? My wife is like, you got to stop. I'm done with this. I'm done. I'm done. She's like, I'm so done. You need another fucking hobby. And so she's like, I bought you some clay, right? And so I started doing some pottery, right? And that's where I was like, oh, YouTube is insane. Like, because I just, in like three weeks, I had done like all, so now she's like, every search engine is like hand-build, pottery like glazing, fiery kills.

It's much more productive. By the way, I get something at the end.

I feel so much better.

You feel sick to your stomach. It's literally too like, and you have something good having your like, yeah, like, I'm like, fuck yes. I'm like, what I look over in my wife is like in the doorway going like,

Are you serious? You're a grown-ass man.

You can't see the hours. That's what does it. When you see the hours, when you see like a total number of hours that you've played, you're like, okay, I could have written a novel.

The problem with it is it's too, it's like racing. Yeah. It's like the one thing I did like, I saw this the other day where they had the front, one of the F1 guys went against like some, some kid and he beat him. And I was like, that makes me happy.

And I was like, that made me happy. Well, only just because You know, you want that skill. You want in your mind that skill set to translate like you're like, see?

This is real time. Oh, it's far as like it being able to stick to the track where it's so much faster.

It's just like, oh my God. My daughter Will is addicted to Formula One. She's like, I sent her down two years ago to it and it was like, look at that.

Yeah, like the GTT, they're like, they're not even moving in comparison.

Yeah, and I said it out because at the time for me, the one who was wanting me to, we were going to fail, I was going to do like a commercial for them, you know, and I was in middle of pitching them and they were like, oh, can we send you down to Austin to the race? And I said, you know, I can't because I'm in the middle of this thing, but you would send my daughter. And Will was like, she has like pit access. She was like losing her mind. She's calling me every five minutes. But like, are you insane? Look, if there's, there's like, you know, Hamilton, I can't believe it right there. And I was like, Okay, I'm down. Don't be a groupie. I like I want you to like she has like a tattoo of like formula one like I'm like wow. Yeah, she's really into it.

Yeah, it makes no sense. You feel like we would just be like drinking the coolator that's so hard.

Yeah, NASCAR is so silly. It's crazy. And you think that like we would dig like this kind of all the turns and like seeing technology. It's like feels like it's right on our wheelhouse. And maybe it and I think it can be.

Yeah, you know that's I think that's in the end Americans love They want that they want to hook on to someone and ride them, you know, through the whole thing.

Yeah, it's by the way, it's a great show. And also because like the drama, if you have fighting and drama together, it's kind of, it's kind of like an amazing comedy. You can't, you can't look away. And it's real fighting.

Like you know, it's not like fucking around. And these guys are fighters. You know what I mean? Like that's the thing. It's not like you got a bunch of schmucks and said, okay, you guys getting a ring and sort of see what you can see what happens.

And these guys suddenly are like,

Yeah, and you're like, oh yeah, I saw them when they were when they were just like scrapping around the house, you know, it's cool to see them like rise like that. It's it's it's it's it's an amazing show. It's it's cool.

No chance. No chance. No chance.

Well, also because it's a ludicrous concept golf. That's what I love about it. It's like, and I, you know, I'm an okay golfer. I've done it. a lot of golf commercials, my dad's a scratch golf, and he's an amazing guy. Oh, I got commercials. Yeah, back in the day, you know, because when I got out of college, I did like 10 years of of TV commercials, you know? And every day, like all, and I did all, I've done every, all the brands, every, like I've done a bunch of Super Bowl spots. I did like, like, Clydesdale, 9-11 tribute spot. Like, there's a lot of all these kind of, for me, that were all these kind of tensions, but along the way, I did like, you know, PGA, I did titleist. I did like all these like, you know, I have a tour bag, like in storage that says, like, Zach Daddy Snyder on it, like on my tour bag. Yeah. So, but, but like the guys like you see these like, I mean, they are, like, Phil Mikkelson is like an insane, like, he, he does this trick where you stand with your hands like this, you know? And then he's behind you with his pitching wedge and takes a full swing and cuts it. If he scores it, it's gonna crack you in the back of the skull. But it goes over your head and lands in your hands, right?

It's just a standing right in front of you. I haven't seen the landing in hands with this kind of video.

It's gonna do it. He's gonna do it.

he had like a hundred degree temperature and like what it was was basically we did they say though these guys are good it was was the name of the campaign and was like all these football players and like golf would be it was it was a ludicrous idea but golf would be in these scenarios and this was basketball was like one second left you know up film Nicholson comes in to play this basketball game they're gonna play with a golf ball and they throw in the ball the ref throws the golf ball to him and he's he catches the ball on his on the on the on the on the blade of his pitching wedge traps it on the ground and then hits picks it off the the the the the the gym floor you know in the ball flies up and then Dave Robinson dunks that that was the commercial So he's sick and he's like, Zach, I don't know, man. Oh, also we did a version of it where we had made the floor about a ball so it so he could take a divot. Oh, and then the PGA was like, well, we don't want it. Looks like it's they were kind of mad because they were like, we don't want to look like we're destroying property. I was like, come on, guys. It's like cool. It's cool that he digs the floor up. Right. They can fix.

But yeah, it was cool. They were that sensitive. But like, Phil comes out and he's like, sorry, man, I'm sick. Like, I don't know. Like, I go, well, let's just try, you know, do what you can. And like, it'll only be a couple shots. And so he's like, I'll do the best I can. So like, you know, throw him the ball and he's, he just like cuts it in the air. And you know, like, he like cuts it in the air and they don't trap it with his club and like, holy shit. And he's like, gosh, how's that? I'm like, how's that? Fucking unbelievable. I'm sorry. I'm like, I don't know what you would do different. It's so crazy.

Yeah, John Daley too. Like we did a spot with John Daley too. And he was like, he's like, comes out. You know, and I guess the the tournament before the one we had done before the shoot that we did we we were doing it in in commensky park in Chicago right and he was the idea and that one was like he's you know top of the night two outs down by three bases loaded whatever whatever you know and picture here comes John daily right and so what we did was so the idea was like we had this like minor league pitcher was supposed to throw a pitch and he's you know we did with visual facts he takes the ball there so what we did was we got the super long tea right and we put the ball on it and I was like John do you think you can Can you hit a drive with a two foot T like that sounds crazy. He's like, I fucking, no problem. But like when he came out, he was mad because he had picked up his ball. Like, you know, he got fined by the PGA. If you pick up your ball halfway through the tournament, you can't just leave. They don't like that. And I guess he was having a bad round. And so he just said, fuck it. And he just picked up his ball and walked off. And they were like, so they find him. And he was super mad that he got fined. And so he goes, he goes, I'm gonna fuck up that jumbo tron. And I was like, John, I go, that's me. I have to pay for it. It's not the PGA. And then he was like, he's like, oh man, I'm so sorry. Like, okay, I won't hit it. I didn't know. Like I thought, you know, he's like the sweetest guy. And then he just like, He just cranks this. He's like our babies. Literally, I've done a bunch of spots with him. You know, like on his backswing, the club head is pointing down at the ground because he's so twisted and that he just uncoils and it's just unbelievable the amount of power that the guy and he hits the ball out of the stadium And it goes literally, we had PA's in the parking lot and they're like the ball just goes over their heads and like into the freeway. You know, he's just a fricking.

Like that, that, that, that, that, the happy Gilroy.

That is f**king insane. The fact that he can actually, with that amount of backswing, the fact that he can actually hit the ball cleanly is unbelievable. Is he from, is that Chinese? I don't know about, I don't know. It looks like Japanese to me. Is it Japanese to me? Is it Japanese to me? Is it Japanese to me?

Is it Japanese to me? Is it Japanese to me?

That's where there. That could be there's balls that do that.

There's left so much whip on the it's amazing. That's crazy, but yeah, that's fun. Yeah, it was fun actually that time in my life traveling around and doing all those TV commercials all over the world like I had a crew of guys it was like me and my boys and we would just like literally Go one job pop in New Guinea one job Germany one job Mexico one job Iceland like over and we were just on the road Completely out of our minds and it was just you know and like whatever product we'd be like okay I'd be pitching the guys be like what are we doing next? I'm like I gotta get on a call like I have an agency and I get on the call in the hotel room and I pitch them and I pick the out of my mind I don't know what I'm saying and I'd come out and be like how to go and I think I got it And they were like, how did you nail it? I was like, yeah, I told him it's gonna be like low angles and slow motion and it's fucking cool and they were like, okay, cool, let's go. And it was just this, we were just in this machine. And frankly, I learned everything like I spent 10 years, you know, like that 10,000 hours thing. It literally, I spent 10 years with every production problem because I was a director of photography, I was a DP and the director and you know we were a pretty small show you know but we had giant clients anything you can think of so then when I went to make a movie it wasn't like there was no There was no thing I hadn't seen. Wasn't like I stepped on a set. Like, oh, I'm a first time director. Everyone's like, oh, this guy's a first time director. What's he going to say? And I'd be like, there was like the tools were my tools. I mean, I was very comfortable with the tools set that I hadn't front of me. More so than I probably should have been. You know, I remember Matt Leonetti, who was the DP of Dawn of the Dead, that was my first movie, was halfway through the thing he's like, you know, you know what you're doing? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know what you're doing? Like, he goes, they can't fire you now. Because like, we were halfway through, because like, I was so diligent. Like, on my first movie, it was so scared. You know, Scott Stuber, who was the executive in Netflix, who was my executive on Army of the Dead. He was the one that hired me to do Dawn. And I was so, I wanted to do such a, like, I wanted to be so conscientious. And I was so scared of like going over budget and not nailing it and making sure it was cool and all that. Um, that like, Madly and Eddie at one point was like, look, man, like, you got to just fuck it. You know, you're, it's your, make it cool now. Don't give a fuck. Just make it, do what you think. And it was such great advice because I think the movie's edge and all the coolness in the movie and the man comes around and all that like weirdness, the whole like montage with the Richard cheese song in the middle. That was all just me going, all right, good. Thanks, Matt. I'm gonna just go and he goes good because he goes otherwise he goes you're just gonna make a movie that this zombie movie is gonna disappear you know unless you fucking add your songs yeah go you gotta add your songs because he goes otherwise it's like look another zombie movie like who cares like he goes you he goes I know you know what's cool what you made it fun I think that that was the whole thing for me was like how do you make a B movie that's self-aware, that it's a B movie. And in that self-awareness, it lets you off the hook to enjoy it, because you can still be smart, like you deconstructed genre. I've always been fascinated with genre and the deconstruction of genre Like I'm a genre filmmaker. I always say to everybody like people like what kind of I'm a genre filmmaker like and that is to say that like in genre though you can explore like philosophy you can explore mythology especially which is like myth is like my main like we make myth modern myth movies are modern myth superhero movies are modern myth like is it not the same when you say like we have Superman right and Batman whatever are they not the mythic answer to the modern, a lot of modern questions about how we should live. You say Superman is he not an invention, a 20th century invention that says to us all the fucking shit that we run up against whether it be war or class struggle or whether it be interrelationships between different countries does Superman not appear in answer to us primitive brains trying to figure out what the where we are. Like you make a guy like Superman. So he can answer some of those questions. He can represent a point of view that is not helpless in the face of the insanity that is like, you know, the problems of the 20th century. And I think in Batman in the same way, he's an answer to like, urban, what is urban? The urban jungle needs a myth, you know, just like the ancient jungle needed a myth or the ancient, you know, those all, like in those days we'd say like, why is the volcano erupting, right? But now we say, because we didn't know, you know, we're just like, I guess it's the gods are mad, you know? And now the problem is like, why am I? Why do I feel helpless in the face of technology or whatever? You know, so we need an answer, we need an additional answer, and I think that's what, and that's what I've always, and I feel like genre has allowed me to make those comments, you know? And I think, you know, look, The funny thing about, you know, what I always find interesting, you know, the thing that I always find fascinating about sort of the movies I've made and how they've landed on pop culture, is that like, I remember like in the last article, it was like, the, it said Zack Snyder love him or hate him, right? Like, and I'm like, hate him, like, what, I don't understand, like, what, it's just, it's a movie, you know, like, it's not, I mean, you look at Rubble Moon, you're like, okay, well, there's not a lot, it's not, it's not, It's not weird enough. It's not offensive enough to hate him for, right?

I have no issue with you not liking the movie. That's not, that's not the question that who cares. The thing is like, You, you would personalize, you'd make me because of, like, I don't understand that.

Yeah, what did you think was gonna happen in it? Also and I by the way, I love the movie and I'm actually Lampooned in that film. There's a line in the movie that says, I feel like I'm like, I feel like I was in a dream where all I cared about was the Zack Snyder cut of Justice League. That is a line in that movie. That's hilarious. Literally, and I'm like, that's awesome. I think that I was like, okay, my wife was like, she goes, that's cool, right? That's cool. They came after you.

genres you cover these subjects that are iconic Superman Batman I mean just those alone no no and by the way that's a lifestyle choice for a lot of people it's not a movie right it's not a movie it's like it's not like if I made a romantic comedy you'd be like okay that was fun like I the people who love and by the way I love that they feel this passionately I'm not in no way would I criticize that because I feel I live the same life right because like it's for me it's morning and night but so for those guys it's not just a movie and so you have to on some on some level you have to acknowledge that they, this is their religion, you know, and they feel strongly about it. And by the way, the truth is it's my religion too, you know, so it's a, it's a, I tend to get in trouble because of my, I do take a deconstructivist point of view because of Dark Knight Returns because of Watchman, those, if you've read those two comics, it's hard to go back, you know, to like, you, you wanna, and it's because I care that I wanna take them apart, like I want Batman, Like people who are like, well Batman, Batman can't kill, right? So Batman can't kill is canon. And I'm like, okay, with the first thing I want to do when you say that. Because I want to see what happens. And they go like, well, don't put him in a situation where he has to kill someone. I'm like, well, that's just like you're protecting your God in a weird way, right? You're making your God irrelevant if he can't be in that situation. He has to now deal with that. You know, if he does do that, what does that mean? What does it? What does it tell you, but does he stand up to it? Can he survive that?

It's good. Well, I mean, and you know, there's this huge like there's so in dark night returns, there's a scene where and I copied it kind of in Batman for Superman where he grabs the M60. He busted of the wall and he grabs the M60 and he's like the guys like In the comic book, he's like, got this kid. The mutant has this kid with a gun to his head and he's like, I'll kill him. I swear I'll do it. And Batman says, I believe you. And he shoots him straight in the head. Because it's like a no win scenario. It's like the Kobyashi Maru of, you know, the Kobyashi Maru is that in Star Trek it's that test they put Kirk through where there's a no win, right? Because I want to see how you react. right so they say okay we're gonna make a scenario a test scenario where you don't win with there's no way to win and in that situation we find out what you would do in a no-win situation because if you're gonna be the commander of this spaceship you have to you're gonna be in situations where you know it's life or death and especially when there's no tricking it right there's no tricking death in this case. And the famous thing with Captain Kirk is he went and hacked the machine and made it so there was a solution. And so that was his response to the no win situation was created scenario where he wins, which is a cool character, you know, that's a cool character move. But that's kind of how I felt. That's what They would say, don't do that to Batman. Don't put him in a no-in situation because we don't want to see him lose. Like we can't see him lose. He has to maintain this God-like status. And that's what the cool thing about Frank Miller, Frank Miller said, fuck it. I'm going to like, I want to see who this guy, like if a guy, so you're saying to me that I've got a gun to this kid's head, your Batman. I'm going to, there's no move. There's no trick. There's no throwing the battering. There's no a dust ball to distract me. Like I, I've just got to pull the trigger and I killed his kit. So you're saying in that scenario, Batman, what Batman's supposed to do? Right? Right. Yeah. He's going to lay down his gun. What is he going to do? Like, it's the guy says to him, I'll do it. I swear it. I believe you is perfect.

I believe you. And I believe you. And you know, so I'm just like, that's where like Frank decends takes Batman and just tears him in half. Yeah. And you've got to now come out the other side of that. And Batman is still the hero. Batman still does the right thing. He maintains his code. He doesn't change, but our perception of him changes. And I think that's like, and I have run a foul of, but a lot of the fandom who have, I feel like who have gotten to the same place I have with the characters where they need to test them. And I feel like the characters, it's been my experience that the characters have not let us down. like these myths have not let us down. They have, they've made, they, they, you've put them to the ragged edge into that scenario and they come out the other side and you're like, fuck yeah, there's a reason why Superman is Superman in order to mean.

There's a, like, he can handle it. He can fucking take it because he's so iconic. Like, you see, like, red, as you go anywhere in the world, with that Superman t-shirt on anywhere. And you say to any kid like what's this. So all of that Superman. Yeah, exactly. Like you know, that means something. That's like fucking cool. Well, not only that.

That's why the Trinity Superman Batman Wonder Woman are so powerful because they're literally obviously the origin concept, right?

Like what is that just kind of a lot of money? Yeah, he's got a lot of money. Yeah, that's like my favorite thing we did in in in Justice League where Bruce says that line about like when when flash says like what's your power and he's like I'm rich? That was cool

mutation and something that they do to them that turns them into something but I think that and that is the thing I mean not to that extent but that's the thing that Frank does and that's the reason why I wanted Affleck because like to me Batman's a big dude right that's like six four you know he's like a legit big dude and you know like in the shoes the shoes the boots are like two inches so like he's literally almost like you know six six in the in the costume like when he comes out in the costume with that little bit of I mean we put some muscle on him and then there's a muscle suit under the suit and he's like it's a he's like legitimately a scary looking thing you know he's just like standing there and you're like holy shit like dude the chin is so insane in that cowl you know he yeah I mean look at him he's like you know he's I took that picture by the way you know he's like legitimately like that's Batman to me I mean I don't I don't know like what

He's a great Batman, but he's still like, you know, you know, five ten. You know, it's it's cool. I mean, not to be. I mean, I'm not being rude.

I'm not being giant in the comics. In some of the like in dark night returns and in in Frank's comics. And like, you know, in the classics, he's pretty big dude. You know, he's always been pretty thick and dark night returns if you look at dark night returns you know like he's did there's a line like we're trying to hold someone's gun and his finger can't get in the trigger guard because he's so big you know like where he's like you know I like things like that like where you just like he's like he has this this genetic like gift of just being this big fucking dude and other than that you know his parents were murdered in front of him and he's also like a billionaire so like that that weird like you you wanted to not be just one of those things right you it needs to be all of them in order for him to really to do what he can do.

Yeah, so it's like, well, I think that that That's the real.

Well, it's funny because like I did that scene like there's that scene. I think it's it. I don't think it's in the it might be in the theatrical but it's definitely in the director's cut. We're like he's wakes up and there's some chicken the bed with him that from the night before because like I always say like you know Batman fucks to forget for sure. You know Batman's a drunk for sure. You know because like he has huge trauma. Right, and I think that like you know you wonder why it's a playboy it's because like you know like anybody like that's a common you know fucking forget is a common that's a real thing that's a way to deal with trauma You know and I think that like I have that there's that bit he wakes up and there's like just painkillers on his bedside table and he's like pop some drink some wine. I'm just like you know to me that's that's like that's that's Batman He's got a maple thorp above the bed. He's got his glass house and he's just like, he has a aesthetic that's clean, but that's all he does. That's like his life.

Well, because, you know, frankly, the comic book doesn't exist. For me, that's why there wasn't. I just was like, the thing that's awesome about also that, it's one of those things like when you start to really, you know, look at like night owl, not being able to get it up. because he's not, he's not in his costume. Like, that's just a cool, to me, that's just like a pure, that's like, that's boiling down superhero to its fucking purest thing. I don't get turned on unless I like, I gotta go out, fucking save some people, do some crime fighting, and now I'm fucking ready to go. You know, like that, that to me was like, that's, that was like, That that as a superhero movie as a concept took a long time to like like land with the boys or like these other kind of superheroes work now it's cool to deconstruct superheroes. It's kind of fun everyone's having a good time with it and I was doing it whatever almost you know 15 years ago and you know it just I just don't think superheroes were as deep in the culture as they are now where like all those things with land you know like all that deconstruct them kind of work that we were doing at the time was really in reference to comic books, not comic book movies, because watchman was written in response to the comic book industry, not necessarily comic book movies didn't exist when the book was written. Right. And also it's a very much, you know, Alan Moore was very much obsessed with the morality of comic book heroes within comic books. And so, and he just took an adult look at it, you know, he's a smart gene, he's a fucking pure genius.

was obsessed with growing up this comic book called Heavy Metal. Yes, and heavy metal is like my thing. Basically what happened was my mom I had bought I was like 13 or whatever and I maybe 12 even. I bought a copy of heavy metal whoever sold it to me because you know it says adult illustrative fantasy magazine right underneath Like in kind of snow letters, but it's there. I would cover it with my thumb when my mom was around. But she, one Christmas, got me a subscription to have you metal. Did she know? She didn't know. She just thought it was a cool comic book, right? And I didn't say anything of course. And that really that comic book and when you see the already version of Rubble Moon when it comes out because basically the deal I made with Netflix was they said I wrote this script and I said this is a script I want to make and they said that is insane and I said yeah but it's like it's a heavy metal but like a but like in live action yeah and they were like yeah Is there any way it could be PG13? And I was like, wow, if it's PG13, it kind of misses the whole point a little bit. But I can imagine that, you know, for a mass audience and for like, you know, viewership, that seems like the smart way to go. I go, what about this? What if we make If I make take this script, I make you a PG-13 version that you can just blast into the world and hopefully many people see it as possible. And then you let me, as in bonus, you just let me make this version exactly as I think. And they were like, okay, that sounds cool. So coming at the end of the summer, you'll see my two three hour versions of Rubble Moon that are like hard, are rated the hardest stuff, which you wanted to do. Which I exactly wanted to do it. So they said, yeah, go do that. And so they were able, because normally when I do this, directors cuts. which is a thing now I'm weirdly famous for. The directors cuts were always an answer to a thing that the studio made me do, right? Like, here's my movie. They're like, yeah, we really want you to cut these parts out because they're not cool. They're like, the movies too long or the movies too violent or whatever. And I would be like, wow, really? Because I really think that's kind of the why of the movie. And they be like, now it's really important to focus groups, told us that they don't like that. So take it out. So I take it out. But then I'd go like, you know, I'd go over to home video, right across the street and I'd be like, hey guys, you want another movie to release? Because I got the shit and they'd be like, absolutely, whatever you say. Because, you know, at that time, there was a huge market for directors. It gave him a second kick at the can in home video, right? So they would be like, that's so cool. We get a whole other movie to market that's like never before seen footage. You know, it just feels like a cool thing. And so that was how I've always done my directors because always as a response to what the studio was telling me couldn't be in the movie. Because I never planned, I would always go into it like bright eye, like, oh, everyone's gonna love this, including the studio. When you see my cut, you're gonna think it's amazing. And they would like look at it and go like, bro, like that's no, like this too much. And so that's where my directors cut, as a practice were born. It was born out of that me needing to show the world what I intended. By the time now that I've got to Netflix with this Rebel Moon movie, And my sort of the mythology around my director's cuts was kind of a thing, especially with Justice League, as you can imagine, they were like, you know what? Why don't we do a director's cut as part of the process rather than as a response to it? And I was like, that's really smart. That's really cool because in a lot of ways, I totally get the economics of making a PG-13 version of this insane genre movie because what I'm asking you know from a budgetary standpoint is high for like a boutiquey space movie that's like you know a heavy metal comic you know that's like a people who love that will love it more than anything else right if I if I can land that they'll think it's the coolest thing ever but like for a mass audience it might not be exactly what you would imagine so I'm like I can do both And that's kind of what, and that's kind of where I, and that's why when you see the already version of Rebel Moon, you're like, fuck, this is, this is heavy metal, like, come to life is really what it is. And that's kind of what I really wanted to do. That's, that was the thesis of my whole, like, me getting turned on by the sci-fi because, like, the thing you can do I feel like the thing that you can do with that format was you could really deconstruct sci-fi. We always talk about, like, I said this at the director's, when Luke Skywalker walks into the Cantina and is confronted by Wallace, man, is that sexual? is he like he's fucking with Luke looks like some farm boy in this bar in this rough bar like what's gonna happen Luke like that's a conversation you cannot have right in star in the context of Star Wars right there's no chance right that's not gonna but like in in heavy metal That's real. That threat is real. Yeah. And it's not anything other than like a naive farm boy walking into like a gritty city bar that he doesn't know what the fuck he has no he's out of his element. other than that he's our hero and he's got to go through a crucible and he's got to learn you know he's got to like these are that like Joseph Campbellian parts of his journey so anyway but that and that's kind of what it's cool because you know I've always been like the huge of fan of heavy metal I think it's like the fucking cool it was the coolest thing heavy metals are made it's like it always like made me it's kind of broke me for comics a little bit because you know it's always like super sexy and super violent and so you get a normal comic can be like uh... When are they going to start fucking? Yeah.

it was amazing but it was also like indicative of that genre that those days like this is the seventies right seventies when they first started publishing that on all that was on the ragged edge which was so and was so underground and so cold and so here that's what I love about it and that's what I wanted to do with the movies like say what is the cult underground raw sci-fi movie look like you know

It was super complicated. Although the only thing I will say is that I was liberated by the fact that I knew the R-rated version exists. So there was, in the other versions of this work, in the other directors cuts, there was a version where that director's cut never was seen. There's a very good chance that that movie never got It's all the light of day because where would you show it? In the old world, in the movie days, all you had was DVD as your option. And if DVD said, yeah, we're good with just the normal version, then that would have been it. And it would just die death. And you would whatever you intended for the movie would just never be seen. And that's just how it was. And so this In this scenario, I was super grateful to Netflix because I was like, you guys have done a thing that I've never been able to do my entire career. And that is like, no, that this version of the movie exists. And it's going to be seen. So I'm happy to do whatever you guys think is right for the PG-13. I'm a good soldier, and I'm proud of it, and I love it. But yes, it is different from what I was

It's I won't say it's act rating. We're waiting to see real still like up against it, but we're trying to get it. It's TPMA right now. What does that mean? I don't know. No one does your audiences. Yeah, you know, like any TV show that's not because like in TV the cool thing about TV is they have TV 14 and then it goes to TV M a TV M a literally has no top on and you know like you're gonna I think it's like almost like porn is TV I don't know what I I look no one understands the ratings no one does it's an alchemy that is impossible to know it's all subjective and bizarre and so you know and they also it's genre related right so like say for instance the ratings board might say something like um well this is a sci-fi movie so it's it's it's too much but if it was a horror movie it'd be fine but it's a sci-fi movie so it's not fine or it's a superhero movie that was the whole thing with Batman vs Superman I remember the ratings board said we just don't like the idea of Batman fighting Superman I was like, what is that? But how is that European? Like, how is that, that has nothing to do with the rating?

Yeah, they kept saying, like, we want it, they kept making it an R. They kept coming back with an R for us. And we were like, we really, what do you want us to cut out? And they were like, well, we just don't like the idea of Batman's fighting zoom out. And I'm like, I can't take that out. That's the movie.

So it was crazy. So we really had to trim it super. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it I mean, if you see the director's cut of Batman vs. Superman, it's much better. It's a much better movie. In my opinion, it's much better movie.

Yeah. And I think that that's true of all the director's cuts that I've done is that it's just a glimpse into the why that you get to see better the why of the movie, the why of its origin, what it, how it Because like obviously something kept me awake for two years writing something kept me jazzed about like fuck yeah, I can't wait to do this. I'm drawing I draw for Rebel Moon like I drew 3000 storyboards for that movie like that is like a lot of work, you know, to like you know to you got a care that's five months of drawing after I've written the script Wow, so I've written the script for a year and a half and then I draw the movie for like another five months Wow It's fucking insane.

It's a good thing I didn't have Fortnite because I would have been like a problem with writing and with for me drawing is if I have one procrastination I can do one. Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, cuz like if I look at that blank pad And I look at the video controller video game controller. I'm like, oh, yeah, this is way more satisfying that that thing was wants to fuck me up that pad is trying to fuck me up

100%. I couldn't agree. By the way, in the end, I did it. I did that work. When we went to film the movie, and I've always shown the storyboards for my movies. It's a problem, but it's a thing that I do. It's my only process. It's funny because when I made soccer punch I remember We were talking about it and I think it was my script supervisor She said one day you're gonna like not need to draw these drawings and you're just gonna You know you're not gonna spend that time and it's just funny that like in retrospect It's like obviously I have to draw the drawings like it's like let me like that's my process now I realize there's no way around it there's no you want to cheat you know like I wish I had a cheat where I didn't have to draw the drawings where I'd be like oh no it's gonna be fine I think I can make it up on the day and it'll be good and I do make it up on the day but the truth is That process of drawing is the process that I vet a lot of the ideas in that drawing. It's not just drawing, it's writing as well. I'll change the script, I'll do whatever I'll be like, no, no, because that doesn't make sense. But when I see it physically, I'm like, no, you can't, that doesn't work so that we sort of construct it in the drawing. It's a little bit sometimes. When did you start doing that? I started doing it. I did it throughout. I did it 300. Did you learn it from someone? I'd always drawn. Like I draw and like you know I'd gone to school as for fine arts. I was always drawing shots and so it's also a thing like in film school or when you're trying to think of something movies take so much resource right and you need like To make a movie, you're like basically an architect and you have to convince someone to build a building, right? And it's so much work to convince people to invest, to dig, to get all the cranes and the steel, it's like impossible. So drawing is like, a little taste of it, right? So like, I can make these are the shots I want to make, right? So in a weird way, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's drawing that beautiful sketch of the building. In a lot of ways, that's what it's going to be, you know, so you can get a feeling for it. And I think that's what it does for me. It's, it satisfies the, the impossible group activity that's going to require me to like, convinced people, maybe that's why La Fountainhead. It's like that, it's that process of like getting people to like believe in this thing that it's gonna take resources and like so much crew and building and designing and all that other work that's down the road. It's the drawing that I think is a little bit of a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's that desire a little bit for me.

There's like there's so it's a huge leap. Beneficial in the production process. Once they have that, everyone knows exactly what to do. You know, it's incredible, tool. Once I have it. Did you do it for Watchmen? 100% my Watchmen books are insane. Did you draw Dr. Manhattan's dick?

I don't know what they allow. I mean, that's interesting. Someone once gave me a statistic of how much time Dr. Manhattan's cock is in the movie, like just full frontly in the film. And I think it's a fair amount. Like if I think it's the only studio film, it holds the record for most frontal nudity, male frontal nudity of any You know, and it's kind of important. It's super important because he doesn't give a fuck.

Like he walks around like that. He's a god. He's a god. Like what the fuck? You can't deal with it. Get the fuck out fucking vaporize you. Or I don't even care what you think. You're a, you're a, you're a cockroach. It's like what does he say? Because he goes, The world's smartest man is no more dangerous to me than it's smartest termite.

He doesn't, you really realize in the face of a god like he says, I've walked across a surface of the sun. He's like, I don't know, he was the coolest.

By the way, that one of my, we were just talking about the other day. Like one of my favorite sequences in any movie I've made is his, the birth sequence of Dr. Manhattan, the whole thing with the film, because we, it's Philip Glass did the music, right? We borrowed the music, because I had heard that music and I was like, it's gotta be this music. And we tried to like, Tyler Bates who's an amazing composer. He tried, we tried, I go write me something that's better than this. And we just couldn't do it. So we just had to license it. And I had to send Philip glasses sequence. And he watched and he said, OK, it's cool. You're going to have to music. That's so cool. Yeah, because it's like, you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no That's good. Yeah, that's that filth glass.

I remember shooting at exactly like as if it was yesterday. Yeah, we had this air cannon. We had a fire at that guy with the mop. Mm-hmm. Because when you like, it gets hit with it. He was like, over acting. I think we did like three takes. I was like, guys, just the first time he like flew on the ground, I was like, okay, it's too much. It's a good fun. Yeah, that's really cool. It's interesting because like, you know, I think one of the things that we, after Justice League, I think one of the things that we really, as a group, as a family anyway, you know, because I lost my daughter over that, you know, cheat. Once my, you know, on the post side of Justice League, my daughter's suicide, And, you know, I left the movie famously and the movie went on and then later we were able to like, you know, finish the movie sort of in the way that we had always hoped. And I think the thing is that like the thing that I kind of sort of come back to when I look at that and when I look at the movies is like, you know, they're these markers, you know, the movies are really these markers of time that we even though they sort of transcend time weirdly, you know, they exist beyond the time they were recorded, you know, these weird, like they're in the computer as sort of these singular, like little, you press it, but then it runs and it's real and it's time and it takes time to enjoy it and time to like, you can't just say it, you have to watch it and feel it again, you know, it's like the cool, so weird thing in that way. And I, and I think that like it just The thing that you hope is that in the end, you know, the markers meant something to people, you know, and I think that that's, we've really fought around, because a lot of these mental health has been a big thing for my wife and I, you know, since losing my daughter and we've always tried, we've tried the best we can to, like, But the fans have done incredible. There are fans of rates like millions, over million dollars, just to support AFSP, which is the suicide in America foundation. And we've been like, it's been cool that the movies, these moments, have now in retrospect, have like a purpose, you know, and that they have like, that the fans have gotten this opportunity to kind of like, you know, join with us and kind of like be with us to like, you know, You know, because it's a huge stigma, you know, like people nobody wants to talk about like that they're having trouble, you know, that they're, you know, that they're not okay. And I think that what we've been trying to do lately, as much as we can, is like, say, like, no, it's good, like, you know, it's okay, you know, like it's not a sign of weakness, it's nothing, it's just, it's real, you know, it's part of being human. It's kind of 100% part of being human. And I think that it was a, you know, we've all, it's an easy thing to kind of say that, you know, I just stress or I just like, I'm good, you know, I'm good, I'm not depressed, I'm fine, you know, and it's an easy thing to just try muscle through. We're like, you know, I think that, you know, it's my hope anyway that, like, as a family, you know, the movies and our connection to the fans and our connection to like that cause has been really, really deep and I'm just watching this, actually, it just started me thinking about like what the movie's mean, you know, like how they're, what does their legacy, you know, what do they, and if they can do On one hand, they are the moments you see. For me, Dr. Manhattan, Leonidas, whatever it is. But then, on the other hand, they can be, there's this other narrative outside of the stories. What I was experiencing and what maybe they could have is just like what I was going through at that On that day, when we filmed it, like what I was struggling with, what I was trying to deal with is real. That's hard stuff. That was just life being lumpy for us, just trying to make a movie, living in Canada, being away from the kids, just all that struggle. And then it's cool when, you know, it's been cool for me that when the fandom and the movie, like, in the case of Justice League, they lined up, you know, where these, these people were like, no, we're not gonna, we want, there's a movie out there that we want to see. And it's around a struggle that we had as a family. And all of it sort of came together. I always say like, you know, people are like, you know, the fandom was toxic or whatever. They were like, they were so angry to get the cut that they were like, I go also. Also, they literally, people's lives were saved by the money that those kids raised. Like, literal, like, lives. real tangible lives were saved by that money, that those kids that you called, that he was there, these toxic fans, they're also responsible for the saving of lives. And that's just really have to acknowledge it because if you don't, like, you, you, in some ways, the legacy that they're able to create is like, dismissed. And I just, I won't, I can't.

Yeah, it's cool. And even just like watching it and like, you know, the comment, like I never said that the Superman was real and he's American. I said that God was real and he's American. And if that doesn't give you like religious like fear, then like you're not, then you're just not human. Like you gotta like it's okay. It's okay to be scared. Right. Because it's fucking scary. Yeah, it's real. Yeah, it's a scary thing.

It is, it's a cool, like, I guess for me, you know, like that, the process of like putting it together and then like when you, when it literally lands and you and it's what you drew and it's what you thought and the music and everything like lands. It really, it is, there is like, I mean, I'm sure it's like anything. It's probably like the same thing like doing stand-up or whatever, like when you When you're in the groove with it, and it's just happening, you're surfing it, and you're like, this is the feeling right here, right? You can't acknowledge it in the moment, but you can feel it, it can push you. It's like a wave, and you can feel it. That's how it is. For me, it's such a long process. It's not instant gratification. It's a very, you really have to have head down mentality to get it to that position, You know, but I do, when I watch it that first time and it comes back and I'm like, yeah, that's, that's like fucking, that's what we, that's the why of it right there, you know, and I think that that keeps me going. Frankly, you know, that little high is really, it's really fun.

One hundred percent. One hundred percent. I feel like that. If you can do that, then your movie's like, yeah, it's a huge success. If one guy comes up to me, like the thing about Manestyle that I've always felt like is that Manestyle is the movie them. the people will come up to me and say like that movie changed my life like that movie like you know like I thought it was about me you know like I'm an immigrant like I just saw myself in in Superman it's like really like you know I was struggling at the time and when I saw it I like I'm not just be like man that's so cool like I'm I'm so grateful that like you know you felt that way about the movie because like I don't you know like for me it's like I send it off in the world you think about like Netflix for instance where like you push a button and like you know rebel moon right the zeitgeist is crazy because like rebel moon so say right now there's like it's like almost 90 million views right 80 90 million people 90 million starts so or 90 million accounts said turned it on okay give or take They assume two viewers per screening, right? That's the kind of math. So you think if that movie was in the theater as a distribution model, so that's 160 million account or people supposedly watching based on that math. So, $160 million people at $10 dollars a ticket would be what what is that math? I don't know. $160 million times 10. That's 1.6 billion. You know, so like you look at the view numbers, you sort of you can use that rough. You know, so more people probably saw Rebel Moon then saw Barbie in the theater, right? That's how crazy Netflix. That's how that's how that's the distribution model that they've set up, you know? I was like, I was at this thing the other day and we were talking about Rebel Moon 2. And I said, and they were like, well, talk about Rebel Moon 1, I'm like, no. Like, go fucking watch it. I know you have it at your house. Like, it's not like a theater situation. You could turn it on your phone right now and watch it right here if you wanted it. Like, that's how crazy it is. I'm like, you know, like that, it's so this model, this machine they built is really something else. It's really crazy if you think about, just like we were saying about the formula one, they're able to like insert something into popular culture that's so Like a deep cut, like a documentary about Formula One. How else do you get that to the people? Right. No way. No way. You released that in a theater five people ago. Yeah. You know, literally five people ago.

But like put it on TV. And like a hundred million people see it. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

It's a different model. It's a different model and it's weird how they think about it. When you think about it in those terms that you give the audience an alternative, like you give them a chance to like go on this, you know, like Rubble Moons, like, okay, that's new IP, right? No one knows what the fuck that is. What's Rubble Moons? Some space thing. I guess, like, okay. Well, let's watch it. You know, it's that the barrier for entries so low that it allows, I think, what's cool is it allows a lot more original and weirdo stuff to exist because, you know, especially like you think about the director's kind of rubble moon, which will be if it was in theaters, a very boutique concept, right? Very singular. It's like the animated version of heavy metal. Like, you know, the movie. I'm like, you know, I'm a huge fan, but like not a lot of people seeing it where I feel like this is a chance where like when this movie is released, the amount of people that can lay eyes on it is Crazy compared to what it would be you know in another if I was releasing it say theatrically or whatever you know it's a three-hour movie both of them are three hours so it's much different like both the PG 13s are two hours right that was one of the things that we talked about also like I want the movie short PG right that's the that's kind of the prerequisite where I'm like on the on the already versions like what there's no rules like it's it's like no no there's no there's no expectations no rules no nothing like you get that's that experiences a completely different and when does that one come out that comes at the end of summer the end of summer I wanted to work I want enough time yeah probably right in there I want we don't have it exact date but like some somewhere I wanted enough time so that I don't want them to be, I don't want them to be too attached to the PG version because I love them. By the way, like I said, I'm proud of the PG version. I think it's fun. I think when you see Rebel Moon 2 on April 19th, you will see a very, a war movie. It's a fucking war movie is what it is. Like the first thing is like gather the team, second movie is a war movie. The R-rated version is just a different journey like you just get there in a different way and it's just more like I said, it's just more weird. It's more boutiquey and more bizarre and more like the original. more like heavy metal yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah more like a genre you could you can't really pitch a studio alive action heavy metal movie right now it's just not a I don't know how to do that I don't know how you'd make that you know unless you are willing to do some sort of song and dance you know which is which I'm I I think that as a product like I said I'm proud of it and I think it works for what they've generated because like basically for the same price as two movies right they get four movies which is pretty that's pretty crazy you know because the director's cuts for what for the hour additional hour and extra stuff that we did inside of each of those movies each of the movies is an hour longer what we did inside those movies with tone and with gourd and sex and all that stuff within the same framework you're getting too entirely different movies is not like extended version you know like that I that I'd be like okay whatever you know like oh you did an extra like weird little here's the thing you cut out that you thought was too long it's not like that at all like you know it's just a lot more I don't it's just a true division yeah it's got balls it's got a lot of ball and is that

I don't think, you know, it's a weird thing because I don't think, I mean, look, it's a, it's a, it's a, It's up to the viewers, you know, in a lot of ways. I don't want to, like, buy no means am I saying that you can't watch both for sure you can. It's really, it's really how you do it. I feel like if you've seen PG-13, Rebel Moon, Part One, you should see PG-13, Part Two, because they're really closely related. I mean, they're like, it's a direct, you know, like you, It could be one movie. You could cut them together, literally, and just keep going. Where it's chapter two, it's part two. It's like where I feel like that in the R-rated experience, it's just like a different. They're both going to release on the same day. So you can just begin binge at, yeah.

It's the same muscle that made me play Fortnite for, like, six months, yeah, it's like.

I think we can do another. That's what I always say to my wife. I'm like, how do you feel? And she's like, I feel good. How you sleeping? Now, let's go.

Yeah, yeah. We've talked about it a lot. I mean, nobody wants fountainhead, but that's what I wanted to do. You know, I pitched him fountainhead, because I'm a, you know, I'm a, I've written this super adaptation of that book. And I just think it's, I think it would be amazing, but no one wants to make it because I think it's taboo. Well, why is she taboo? I don't know. She's taboo among the intelligentsia because they think she's fascist and they think the books are fascist propaganda. That's not why I like the book. I happen to just like it because it's it to me it's a direct comment on making a movie, right? It's a movie about an architect who won't make the buildings that everyone wants them to make and like what the struggle he goes through to get the buildings made the way he wants to make them. Of course I like that you know like no movie director. I'm sure there's plenty of movie directors that don't like fountainhead but I just think that it just has it says so much iron ran wrote fountainhead in direct response to being noted on a script that she had written and she had been studying this movie about skyscrapers and they told her she kept submitting versions of the script and they kept noting her noting her until it was unrecognizable and then she was like, this is what happens to a peat, to like, you know, to work. You know, it gets noted to, into like, till it's disintegrates into the spheres. And so yeah, so that was, that's one thing that I've always wanted to do, but I don't know that I'm ever, I don't know that the world will allow that.

Yeah.

Right. But it's funny because look, and I get by the way, Alice shrug. fair you know you can play with that that's a game that I mean I'm pretty exclusively a fountain head fanatic and for that also because it's it's melodrama too like it's the most melodramatic thing ever I mean as far as just like why won't Netflix let you do that I feel like this show I just I feel like that I think it would have a huge well again I think I know would work I know would work to know yeah why don't fuck come on Netflix let's go

But that's the thing that no one knows, like that's the awesome thing about movies is like, and why, you know, I'm not that worried about the AI influence over motion picture because there's obviously no formula. No one can predict what's gonna be successful or they would have gotten rid of the directors and writers a long time ago. You know, like, it's still, there's alchemy, there's still magic. They're still like an impossible, like, you know, all these elements come together and you feel something. And you're like, what that was cool? Fuck, you know, and it's the thing, like, who knows, you know? It's like, you know, anything, you know, that you see that maybe if someone described it to you, in an abstract, you feel like that sounds dumb, like I know. And then you sit and you watch it and you experience it moment by moment. And you feel it, yeah.

And I do feel like that the fingerprints, the squishy fingerprints on the thing are the thing that make it like unbelievably crystal marks. Yeah, I want the chisel mark. I love them. I live for them. Like to me, that's the best movies, my favorite movies, the best movies, or where you can feel the hand of the mid-film make. Like I want that. I do not want the movie made by committee. You vote when you go to a movie that feels like it was made in the board room. I feel dirty when I watch that. I don't like it. I don't want the cold hand of marketing on me like that. You know, I want to like, that's why I love the, you know, like the weirdness, you know, like I feel like in the end, all my movies is just a little bit weird in a good way, like, you know, 300 for whatever. It's like all the like, you know, kind of like coolness of it as far as like, yeah, let's go fight. It's still a weirdo movie.

You know, it's Frank's book, you know, I made what Frank wrote. Now, in retrospect, and we've been talking about doing a series where I really wanted to like introduce those concepts a lot more, because I just feel like it's important if we go forward and do more in the 300 universe, I would want to bring that part in and let people which I think just shakes it up again, like you're like, what, like, right? You thought you knew, right? When you thought you knew, like how to feel, like I'm gonna make you feel like another way. People have always said like, you know, 300, you know, people have accused me of being like homophobic or whatever. And I'm like, I don't know, they just somehow they feel like that.

Yeah, or because they, you know, there's that one line where he says, you know, philosophers and boy lovers. I think that that he's clearly being cheeky, Leonidas, because I, of course, him was hyperware at the time that the reality of Spartan culture was, he's obviously, he means philosophies and boy lovers not. He's using that maybe as a directory comment, but when in reality, he's a lover of men, probably.

Absolutely. And so I just think that, like, as we talked about, as we go forward, I would love to just kind of stress. And just, like I said, like, look, 300, you know, in some ways is like one of the gayest movies ever made, you know? Like it is incredibly male-centric, male-obsessed. You know, like you really feel like very strong male energy from the movie, even though there's a strong lead, you know, Gore goes incredibly strong female character and we wrote her and made her, like, he doesn't decide to kick the person messenger into the well without getting approval from Gorego, because, you know, he's like, I'm going to burn it down. Is that cool? And she's like, go do it, you know, and he's like, all right, here we go. And you know, he, he, this is Sparta's like, I, and that's like, that was, that, and I just think, but I just think that like, you know, And maybe that was just me understanding doing the research and understanding the reality of the Spartan culture that I really, that energy was in there because I just felt like it was important to make sure that there was this kind of visceral sexuality to the way the men actually interacted. That was there. I mean, regardless of whether you acknowledge it, it's there.

No, no. But I just mean from sort of an iconic standpoint as far as like the, the, the, the just sort of indulgence in the male form, you know, is very, it's not, it's not casual.

Yeah, be interesting. I think that hopefully we'll find out one day. That would be fun.

Yeah, it's just, I mean, like, look, in the end, it's a, it's a weirdo, it's a weirdo show, you know, like it's just, it's fun to enjoy it. It's fun to fuck with. And, you know, like, that's what we do. Like that's, you've got to tear it apart a little bit to like take a look at it. You've got to know.

How do you choose what you... I don't develop. I kind of have a bunch of stuff. I've always had a bunch of stuff that I work on and I just go, I want to do this and then whoever wants to do it, then they we do it and I mean... That's a nice position. It is an awesome position and I appreciate it and I don't take it for granted. You know, there's a few things like I've always been obsessed with Richard Bach. I don't know if you know like there's a he has this book called Allusions that I've owned for a long time and I've always wanted to do. You know, I grew up as a Christian scientist and I, you know, I, is that a book about like channeling? Well, illusions is about this, it's a book about this guy flying, and it's by plane around in the 1970s, and he lands in a pasture, because like in the 70s, he was part of this sort of, he would fly his by plane around land in a pasture, and then sell rides for $3, like for 10 minutes. And that's how he lived, right? He's just a gypsy pilot flying around the Midwest. And he happens to come across this guy who also is flying a biplane, who happens to be like a Messiah, who happens to be like this super spiritually advanced dude, who's on the run from, he doesn't want to be the Messiah. He's like, he's like, it's like, it's called illusions, the adventures of a reluctant Messiah. And it's about the two of them spending a summer together, just the one guy teaching him about like, It's a shit job being the Messiah. Don't do it. Because you know what happens to the Messiah's in the end. Right. Yeah. He goes to you always have to die of violent death. And he goes, yeah, not always. And he's like, really? He goes, yeah, you know what? It's cool for like, he goes, what about just a quiet little ascension, you know, just on the side? And he's like, yeah, I don't think that I don't think the universal let that happen. So it's a cool. So it's just really cool. again it's like this sort of it's again like a spiritual deconstructivist like Messiah story and I just like I've always it was like this book when I was growing up I just in a lot of ways it's it's religious philosophies this similar to Christian science So I superimposed my religious beliefs onto this book and I felt like it kind of spoke to my doubts and my questions about my religious upbringing and like what I thought for real like my brother so my brother passed away when I was 13 he got in a car accident and he was like this incredibly spiritual dude everyone like anyone who knew my brother was like that guy was the guy he was the man like You know, Sam Snyder was like, among his peer group was like, he was like, you know, in retrospect, like he was in a Tai Chi and like, just like super cool 70s do, right? Like, just like, kind of look like Billy Krude up, right? Like Billy Krude up from like, you know, almost famous, right? Imagine that guy, but just like, the coolest guys, you know, smoking dope, just being cool as hell. So when he passed away, I always thought like, okay, my brother just like tired of this world and went looking for another one, you know, like he was just like on a spiritual journey. But then like when you see when you're 13 and you see like what it that event though does to your family your mother and father you know your sister all of their friends like the devastation that they feel and these are people that I believed believed in the religion that I believed in and the pain like it made me really go like what the fuck like What's real like what like what are we supposed to believe you know it really tested me and I think that allusions that book in retrospect And I won't spoil it or I won't tell you what happens on the last page of the book. But it kind of speaks to where I was. And I think so it's always resonated with me. And I'm friends with Richard Bach. I became friends with him and his wife is constantly texting me. Like, why don't we make an allusions? And I was like soon, soon. She said, I found the planes. You know, so it's cool. Like we have the planes. We can make it anytime. so yeah standing so those are kind of that's how we develop like it's all these things that I have you know that are kind of close to me that I am always constantly saying what about that we shouldn't maybe it's time that's awesome dude well listen it's been great to talk to you I really appreciate what you've done a love how excited you are about filmmaking and not

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I love it. Look, man. I'm a fan of the show. And, you know, it's an honor to come on and talk to you. Thank you. It's honor to have you.