Transcript for #359 - Alex Grey

Jesus, Louise, what are we doing there? We send an e-mails. The person I'll explain to the person on the podcast is today. One of my favorite artists in the history of the universe, how about that? about a small handful of people that I would have liked to meet more than you. And so having you on the podcast the first time was a true honor and a treat. And it's just cool to be in contact with you. I think you represent a very positive and a very unusual force in the world of art and then the world of consciousness as well. Your artwork is so moving and so representative of the psychedelic state that It actually has like an effect on people, you know, I think your artwork is probably like some of the the most accurate psychedelic artwork I've ever seen and I can't tell you how many people I've been with that have seen your artwork are seeing one of your pieces for the first time and just went fuck you know like that's like the the usual reaction when they see one of your crazier pieces like the one that's like the one that I always think of when I think of you is these three faces they look like Egyptian sort of Farrow type faces and they're all three. One is facing forward and two on the sides and it just seems like a DM teacher it seems like you're tripping when you're watching it. Right.

Yeah, yeah, he just passed. It's, it really is a weird thing though to see it so clearly captured in artwork. And it's one of the weirdest things that people point to when they point to either ancient religious art or You know, just various things that were it's hard to find evidence of psychedelic use and there are like they didn't It's hard to find moments where they call it. This is one. There was nothing like this that came out of the old world. And it's fascinating to me because if, you know, McKinna was right with this idea of the stone ape theory and, you know, the mushrooms probably shaped human culture, it's like clearly there were long periods of time probably where people weren't getting that.

It's the cave art is one of the weird things about ancient man. Have you seen the Werner Herzog documentary about the ancient cave art? I believe it was in France, is that where it was? Yeah. What is it called Cave of Dreams? Yes.

Oh, it's one of those things. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, I only got a chance. I was running out the door when it was on. So I only got a chance to see it for about an hour, but it was fascinating. Just the idea that they were painting these incredible things. Just close 30,000 years ago, 40,000 years ago, I don't crazy like that. And this is some of the oldest stuff. Just does the idea that you're looking at something that someone 40,000 years ago drew? It seems so insane, but it also seems like a blip. When you really stop and think about 40,000 years to go from that to us, from drawing on rocks as being your main form of expression, like drawing buffalo, to 40,000 years later, taking pictures of yourself and sending them to people on the outside of the planet. So it's not that far.

What do you think that is that feeling that you get when you see a piece of art when you see something beautiful? When you see something, even if it's the same feeling for me, it's almost exactly the same thing. When I see nature, a beautiful scene in nature, as I say, a beautiful human creation. So it seems to have no differentiation in my imagination. When I see a beautiful sunset or a beautiful forest, you know,

Yeah. It's just such a strange thing to be able to do. You know, if you looked at it, if you were outside of human culture, and you said, what are they doing there? They're creating beautiful things, and they'll look at it and get a positive feeling from it. Ha! Oh, strange. Like, that image serves no other function other than express themselves? No, they can't eat it. They can't, they don't know how's this out of it. They're just making it and they look at it and stare at it. They think it's awesome.

Yeah, it's almost like a familiar image, like even though it's so bizarrely outrageous and... You're still like, wow, wow, if I've seen this goddamn thing before, what is it about? Especially that one with the three heads. But that one really knocked my socks off. Yeah. You're going to make a whole building like that, man.

It's going to be the coolest place on the planet Earth. That is without a doubt going to be the coolest building on the planet Earth. There's nothing cooler than that. You made an Alex Gray building. And an Allison Gray building.

That looks straight out of a piece of the wreckage from Roswell. That's what I expect that writing to come from. That looks awesome. If human language like that's looks like something someone would get tattooed on them. They wouldn't even know what it meant. It just looks so cool.

Oh, someone will do that now that you're just suggested. Someone will definitely do that. Or you could make a t-shirt. Make sure. Yeah. That's maybe that's a good move. Yeah. Why are you going to sell t-shirts for me? That's like people would love to have this t-shirt. I guarantee you.

We should explain to people what enthion is if they didn't listen to the first podcast. You are built. You have essentially you've created your own religion. You're like everybody has always said that wouldn't it be amazing if somebody created a religion that actually wasn't based on anything ancient or based on trying to get your money, but based on the true principles of love and the word that you like to use all the time, God, you know, you want to take that word back, you know, trying to take that word back from the Bible bankers, but it's a it's a kind of an amazing thing to do, you know, because I know you and I know like what you're about. You're not doing this for any nefarious reasons. You're doing it for the perfect reasons. And that's really rare where someone has a voice and they choose to just go all in like that. You've created religion, man.

Yeah, that's happened before people even realized it.

So, how do they get to this? If people want to contribute to this Kickstarter?

Right. Oh, that. Okay. Just google that. Google Alkscreate Kickstarter. So, um, and you, what you're doing is essentially you're building a temple. Yeah. You're building a work of art that it really It's kind of fascinating because if a lot of people who believe that psychedelic drugs are at the heart of almost all religions and the psychedelic experience and psychedelic imagery and ancient religious artwork, there's things that represent mushrooms and shapes that are mushrooms. these incredible buildings that have been built for religion. I mean, if you really stop and think about some of the greatest architectural achievements, it's been like the most beautiful ones have been the ones that were created for religions. It's like they, you know, in whatever part of what there are that is good, wanted to achieve some higher level, they've done it with their art, with their architecture, with You look at some of the ancient Roman architecture that's dedicated to the Catholic Church. It's staggering stuff. Outside of the creepiness of the Catholic Church, which is undeniable, and I came from it, that the art work, the architectural art work, is just masterful. It's stunning. It's like nothing else, you know.

Do you think that any of those guys tripped?

We're looking at the image and properties. That is insane. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. So keep going.

Did you get changed people's lives just with these pictures? They're so trippy. They make you like that one right there. That makes you go, okay, what is real and what's not real? That thing's too freaky. What is reality? Why is that image so familiar?

Was that? Yeah, I think it's a possibility. I have hope for people. I really do. And I think the internet is what gives me the most hope. Because I think that the first time people have ever had a straight pipe to the world. Everybody has a straight pipe to everybody else and information is settling and people are starting to understand they are greater understanding of what constitutes a happy life and how to achieve happiness and how to surround yourself with positive people and how to express yourself in a healthy way. And that's all the internet. The internet has given people, I think, a way better understanding of life itself than any generation has ever had before. And so to have this and to create it with the internet. It's kind of a kind of perfect. It's kind of beautiful.

Well, because of people like you though, they're doing things like that. That's one of the reasons why I have faith. It's one of the reasons why I think that I know a lot of people gravitate towards your stuff. A lot of people gravitate towards your words. and the gravitate towards your artwork. And I think that gives me hope that I think that there's people that are trying to put themselves on a good frequency. And those people that are not, those people that are just undeniable and negative, they'll never let it go.

It's all I think a disuspectrum for sure. There's a spectrum of fortune luck You know the luck of the draw of where you were born who you're associated with oh my god your family. There's a that's an undeniable luck of the draw, you know, I think every day I grew up with the people I grew up with, you know, I got really lucky with my parents. They were really nice, you know, that's not the case with everybody, and that's luck. So, you know, you can't make, you know, some people are just, they're born into such a massive deficit.

Where do you see this going? Do you see this becoming, uh, and the on, like once, once, once, and the, and the on this built would have a bunch of people want to like move into the property. Would you would you consider?

How far in is the construction process?

And for folks who are just listening on iTunes, what Alex is, you could see it if you go to alkscre.com. So if you go to alkscre.gery.com and go look at some of the images of, and it's really, it's the weirdest, craziest, coolest look in building I've ever seen in my life. And if you do completely build it this way, it's really going to be one of the coolest things on Earth. I mean, it's a building that's a work of art, and it's a stunning work of art.

Do you think that that was the heart of you feel like that was the heart of all or guys religion that originally it was a sort of a psychedelic experience? Well, a mirror to go over a mirror. So could it been like yoga or Kundalini or something like that?

People would say, hey, yeah, you're about to die. You're hallucinating.

But yeah, people, one of the weird things about psychedelics is people always, even if it was one of the most profound experiences ever, and one of the most amazing experiences ever, people will tell you, yeah, but it was just your mind playing tricks on you, like it doesn't matter. And you can go, okay, but it's Whether it was, whether I really did travel to another dimension and communicate with infinite beings that were made out of love and understanding who told me the secret to life is positive energy and positive. Even if it was just my imagination, I still experienced it. I experienced it as if it was real. So whether it was real or whether it wasn't real, I could have the exact same result. Something happened that was unbelievably incredible. It took me to someplace that was infinitely beautiful and then something happened to me. Like you that happened or it didn't happen. Well, definitely happened. It doesn't matter if it was imaginary. It doesn't matter if it was only inside my head. The whole world comes out of the inside of your head. When we're kids, I remember when I was a kid, they would say like, oh, he's such an imagination, that's one. It was talking about kids who were liars. You know, that's how people treated the imagination. The kids were just fibbers. You know, because that's imagination to some people. You know, some people, they didn't think it was something to be encouraged. But it's really where everything comes from. And that's the weirdest thing about it. The imagination conjures up an idea, which becomes a laptop. it conjures up an idea which becomes an airplane it all comes from the imagination whether it's artistic whether it's a song whether it's a joke that's it's the weirdest thing ever it's and everybody wants to pretend that it's so normal it's so normally just thinking shit up at a the middle of fucking nowhere and creating nuclear power you know what did you do you sat down and will you wrote some stuff on some a pad and you figured it out Where's this all coming from? Where's the idea to even do that coming from? Where's the idea that some guy wants to be like a fucking bird and put wings on and figure out how to fly and eventually figure it out? No, we just travel all over the world. We don't think anything of it. I mean, the imagination is crazy. The imagination has done some amazing things for human beings in this world. And yet, we still don't give it the credit of deserves. It's kind of shocking. You know, imagination is like the most underrated thing of all time.

Do you think, no, and this has always been a very strange one amongst the mushroom connoisseurs of the world, some believe that in consuming that life form, which is really closer to animal than it is to plant, right? Yes. and consuming that mushroom, what you're doing is that's how it communicates with you. That's right. And then these visions that you're getting, this information that you're getting, just almost downloaded to you in a way that you can't understand or even comprehend most of it. I was described trying to remember what you're learning on mushrooms, like trying to grab fish in a river. I can't fucking grab anything. I can't hold on to it. It's just too crazy. I'm seeing too much. I'm trying to calm down, but I'm seeing too much. And then you've sort of go, oh, okay, this is where everything comes from. Comes from this crazy place.

Was that how you were approaching life? Yeah. Yeah. What do you think the cause of that is? Is that the environmental? Is it behaviorals and pattern that you get into?

Formonal change possibly.

The professor has acid?

You know, get those kind of professors anymore.

Boston. In Boston? Yeah.

I went back recently. It was really interesting. We were driving around. I forgot how historic certain parts of Boston. When you look at graveyards from the 1600s and really old buildings, like, wow, I forgot. This is the historic town.

Did you hang around with any Irish drugs? Because that would change your phone. With a quickness. Irish drugs on Coke. Yes. I knew a lot of those. Well, Italian words as well. I don't want to discriminate.

It's amazing sitting as far as like education goes. I think it has more colleges per capita than anywhere else in the world or in the country rather and I also think about like Harvard and MIT both in the same city that what does I mean it's Cambridge but what are the odds of that Cambridge is basically Boston? That's the same thing. It's like wow. What a crazy town for smart people. Oh my god. It's so smart. Why would they be there?

Yeah. That makes your hard worker. That's for damn sure. Yeah. Grow up with a work ethic. You know, I grew up. I learned how to work hard because everyone around me worked hard. Look at you. They're going lucky. now you're well for sure trust me it's a lot of luck involved but you know growing up with people in Boston like it really definitely when that fucking winter comes man you gotta be prepared See, I'd love California, but there's something about it. Like, I even look at my kids and I'm like, you know what, it do you good to freeze your ass off the ground then? You do you good to realize that you got to get in the house because it's cold outside, you know, to know that that shit's out there. I think there's a humility that comes with having to deal with weather. And unfortunately, as we're saying this podcast, a bunch of people died in Oklahoma. with a horrible tornado, so you know, we had to twist it, acknowledge how sound that is and how a fucking crazy it is that there's a part of the world where the sky becomes an angry machine monster, you know, spinning wind that picks up semi-trailers and sends them flying through the air. That is horrific. We've had hours. We've had hours.

Well, I don't know. I don't know. A lot of them can't, man. A lot of us say the problem. A lot of people are poor, you know, and they've been there for years and the family's there. It's not that easy to just kind of pack up your shit.

It's definitely cheaper now. Let's more bullets, though. Maybe around Detroit apparently right Detroit is like the worst place in the world to be a book They say that Detroit is a 47% illiteracy rate in Detroit

I just made it up. That's hilarious. It's crazy if you really stop and think about it. 47% of literacy rate was going on. No one's paying attention to anybody. The government should absolutely focus on situations like that. The idea that we shouldn't intervene in places where it's gotten so out of hand that half the people can't read Like, that should be thought of as an epidemic, because all of those people that can't read are going to give birth to children that probably can't read either. And you have thousands, if not millions of people who can't read. And then they're going to enter into the world unprepared, unprepared to communicate, to exchange information, to be able to find things out for themselves. I have to take a bunch of people's words for things that you can't read. I mean, there's so much involved in being illiterate. The fact that there's like millions of potential crazy people that are going to go through life completely illiterate in 2013 and no one's up in arms about that. It's really kind of shocking.

Yeah, it's hard to make a person. It's hard to raise a human being. It's not an easy thing. And when we're looking at human beings that are being raised in like really terrible conditions, and I mean, it's like one of the first things, like the whole world concentrates on. Before you concentrate on, I mean, it sounds so hippy, but it seems like if you really want to have a happy life, you've got to be doing more good than you are harm. And there's got to be a way to do that first. There's got to be a way to say, look, there's X amount of people in the world that are starving. Let's all globally chip in to try to stop that from happening so that these starving people don't have starving children who never get a chance to get some momentum in life and be comfortable and happy. It never comes. It never comes. To give them a chance, wouldn't that be like the most important thing you can ever do? It was like ever as a race. It was stopped the worst conditions to stop the worst conditions. Sam Kenshin had the best bit about that. Oh, it was so cruel, but it was so amazing. What is it? We were talking about Ethiopian children. They have those commercials. He's always like, you just fix yourself some dinner. You sit in there. And his commercial, and he's like, what you help him? Why don't you say it? He's like, why don't you help him? You're only five feet away! He's got, he got by the camera, he got a Snickers bar going, not now, not now. Shut the camera. It was one of the best bits ever.

Yeah, like he said that we, you know, I forget how it goes. It's something about it. We, uh, yeah, we sent, we came over here with food and occurred to us that we, you would need food if you people would move where the food is. But you live in a fucking desert. And he grabs them when he puts his face in the sand. Who's that is? That's sand. You know what's going to be a thousand years from now? Fucking sand! terrible mean bit so missy all and even though Kensens dead long dead still it's oh it's such a mean bit yeah but it was hilarious it was they'd cross that line of being yeah fucking mean but so funny like oh you mother fucker oh god he was he was a wild mother fucker Sam Kenson we were talking about hex before the show started You know, that we both thought that like Hicks was like the first truly like psychedelic comedian who had psychedelic ideas that he was putting forth. You know, some of them weren't even that funny. They were just incredibly profound that it was in the middle of some other shit that was funny was what was so weird about it.

And a lot of his stuff still holds up. You know, especially if you haven't heard it before. It still holds up because what he was saying about the Bush administration, the first Bush administration, by the way, that's, you know, that was when he was, you know, railing against the machine. It's just like you can just take it and substitute the words and it works today. It worked with George W. It works with Obama. I mean, it just, it just, the material works. It just substituted this guy for that guy and he was, it's still relevant. And he gave birth to like a whole completely different style of comedian. Like that, the style of comedian that came after him was like they wanted to like educate you. Which is really weird, some of them were idiots. So there's a on the wall of the back, the green room at the Dallas, no, the Atlanta punch line. There's a big sign it says, don't stop trying to be Hicks. No, quit trying to be Hicks. Yeah, because there were so many guys that were doing that. There's so many guys staying. Wow. Yeah, it was just so, it was so amazing to watch that he like, I mean, Dr. I'd make a swammy, he's a physicist, one of those particle guys, had a funny thing to say about people that were sort of fake in it. He was like, he goes let them, he goes let them use their word quantum if they don't understand it, because maybe they'll have the stick to understand it now. And I'm over here and I'm like, wow, that's so profound. That's interesting. I would have never thought that far ahead. He's like letting people fake it, not calling him on it. Just so they just keep looking into it.

Exactly. Why should he be like, listen, bitch. You know you don't know what you're talking about. A Hicks made a lot of people aware of psychedelics, too. There was a lot of people that did not know anything about heroic doses or any of that shit. Like Hicks was like the first thing of comedian to ever talk about things that way.

It was never like, it wasn't like what Hicks was describing. It was like, what is this guy saying? Because Hockham is different than everybody else takes mushrooms. And I think it was so interesting and fascinating when he would talk about it that it just led a lot of people to explore that.

Yeah, I mean, digitally still is. Yeah, he's still here as words.

Yeah, he really was. And he, you know, he had a lot of references that he would use in his material that would make you seek out of the shit. Like what Terrence McKenna would call a heroic dose, you know? And I was like, who the fuck is Terrence McKenna? And I started reading about Terrence McKenna. Whoa, this guy, holy shit. I started reading food to the gods. And I was like, oh my god, I'm like, where's this guy been? You know, I mean, Hicks exposes people or did expose people. And then once you got into the McKenna door, then you were off to the races. Yeah, once you start listening those McKenna MP3s that are available online you want to talk about something that will just crack your consciousness Those McKenna MP3s of some of those lectures that he gave he just what he thought I had a very strange way of thinking Yes, I used to think of him as the the spokes monkey for the mushroom You know that he was kind of plugged in

The uh, what is it? Was it story they told of uh, La Chujera? Yeah, they took too much and Dennis kind of went. He went radio silent for a couple of weeks. Yeah. I'm completely crazy for a while. Yes, that they're, you know, dealing with like dinner plate size mushrooms and they're eating them all day.

Oh, you've had him. Yeah, he did.

Yeah, yeah, we talked about it. We just talked about psychodox And we talked very specifically about the actual science behind the possibility of psychedelics creating language, especially particularly psilocybin. And he was explaining how it would make sense that language was created through the use of psilocybin by virtue of the effect that psilocybin has in a very scientific way that I can't recreate and trust. And I was like, oh, I never even heard anybody say it that way before, but they're completely make sense. Yeah, obviously one theory and I don't understand really what he's saying. It just sounds awesome. You know, I don't know whether or not there's some science to it.

Yeah, I was going to ask you though. Why do you think that is that people would dismiss that? Why do you think it is that people would ridicule that? Like someone saying that you actually learned something from a psychedelic experience, you say that to the average person and they'll look at you with ridicule. Like, how did that happen? Do you think?

Yeah, actually. That's a great, great one. Um, yeah, well, I think that for a lot of folks, they first of all, the equate drugs with bad, you know, they think of you drugs, the problem is meth is drug too. and rest lives. That's why there are two cocaine-fucked people up, but then there's pot, which doesn't, and then there's mushrooms, which does, these are, you know, they're all drugs, though.

What is the term in the origin? What is the actual translation of that?

A bunch of dudes that are really do, she'd just decided the name, their son Theo, after hearing that.

So that's what And Theo Jennings. Yeah.

I don't hear it within. I don't blame people that are discriminated against psychedelics. If they haven't had psychedelics, I think it's just an ignorance thing. I think people have a lot of bad ideas. And I don't necessarily think it's their responsibility to be right about something that they haven't experienced themselves. And that is, you know, in society, it's sort of, it's looked down upon. It's looked down upon to alter your consciousness like that. And if you do it, you're probably looking to escape reality. That's like the standard take on it.

Yeah, but Alex that was thousands of years ago. We don't want it anymore. All right. If Jesus came around today, no one would believe them. There was some dude that was claiming that he was a son of God. He was giving wisdom to everybody. They'd probably put him in Guantan on my back. There's no way they would let that guy just run around running shit.

They're just like spores, you know, absolutely, but there's, but the idea of the one, a Messiah coming back, a magical Messiah with power to breathe from the dead.

I love the hair.

What do we do here?

It is, but isn't it always been like this? Isn't this the end of the young that makes people human? Perhaps the push in the pool. Sometimes we need to rally against them and pending doom or the hot eye now. It's a part of being a person. We're goofy. We want a cramp for tests.

And we've also been born in a super lucky spot. As far as the history of humanity, we didn't have to go through the people trying to make it across the west with wagon trains and we didn't have to go through any of that. We're lucky. We have internet.

Do you feel you have a responsibility from You're the fact that you have this voice and you're looked at as this sort of psychedelic visionary guy. Do you feel like you have a responsibility to try to get information out, things that you've learned, things that you think possibly could help people? Because you obviously have a vision of things and you obviously have a very well thought out view of humanity and of consciousness. Do you feel that you have an obligation to express these thoughts?

If there's a bunch of babies just took their pants off right now. I can't take it. That's too low of it.

You know, it's also a fear of the unknown, too. Totally. People that haven't had it, I think that that's why I don't fault them. The ones who are anti You know, a lot of people associate your drugs with your ruining your life, not with saving your life. The people who are both.

you know well switch literally was turned on and you became a different person like shedding a cocoon you know caterpillar becomes a butterfly whatever the fuck happens whenever you have a really profound experience but some people don't do that some people do they this is what I say is that a really profound psychedelic experience is like control all delete for your consciousness where your brain reboots with a fresh operating system and there's only one folder on the desktop. The desktop folder says my old bullshit and you can either open it up and go right back into these predetermined patterns of behavior once the psychedelic experience has faded because it would be more comfortable that way than sort of reassessing the way you've been living your life. or, you know, you can hit the leap and try to keep going and do DMT again. Check it right back there. Right when it stops being fresh, just reintroduce that my, oh there it is. Okay, I got it. Okay, thanks.

You know, wow. Yeah, you know what's been really tripping me out is how many people that I know that are starting to have semi at least psychedelic experiences from doing yoga. You know, I've had maybe one time in my life where I did yoga and I felt like I was high. I felt like I was high in marijuana. That sort of felt like at the end of it. It was like, wow, just like whatever it is that you have that switch that you can hit when you do the right poses for the right amount of time with the right amount of energy. There's a weird switch that you hit at the end where I was literally high. But that's as far as I've ever taken it. I've never had a hallucination I've never actually projected, I've never. But I have heard some of the fucking craziest things from people that practice Kundalini yoga, that if I didn't know them really well and the way they were telling it to me, it's like so matter of factally. I would say this guy's crazy, just making up a bunch of shit except for the one time that I got myself high. Because that was really high. I mean, I was high. I felt great. I had love in my heart. I wanted to hug people. I felt like colors were brighter. Sounds were cleaner. I really felt really high. And it was just from doing yoga. And I was like, if that's possible. I've never really continually practiced Kundalini, but the people who really get into Pranayamas and all that, they say that there's a wave length that you can hit, where you tap into that, whatever it is, the pineal gland, whatever it is, the DMT factory, and you just shou-boom open up the doorway and punch right through, and that you can do it through yoga. Yes, absolutely. Are you done through yoga?

It's perfect. So God's on it. Okay.

Yeah, come on. Here it is. There it goes. Thank you.

Let's be honest. Exactly. You're, you're, you're, you're so psychedelic anyway from point A. You're, you're, you naturally psychedelic. And then on top of that, all the things you've done, how could you ever pretend that you're ever on the Natch? You're, you're experienced too much to be on the Natch.

That's a good question. Well, what I've found is that by doing something like a podcast, having conversations with people like you and my friends that come on, you're sitting, you're putting out the kind of conversations that we're having right now. You're putting these out to people that live in places where they don't know anybody like you they can't get a guy like you to sit down for three hours I couldn't get you to sit down for three hours and just talk like this unless we're gonna do a podcast me probably could but this is the way to do it you know so everybody can be in on it as well but that's one of the best things for me about this podcast is that I'm getting to talk to like These people like Chris Ryan, or Danielle Ligbolelli, are all these interesting people that I get to talk to on a regular basis. To me, that's a beautiful little situation that I've stumbled into. And for me, I feel very fortunate just to be able to have all these conversations with people. Now there's a sense of obligation because I know that people enjoy these conversations and I don't want to ever have them think that I'm not going to do it anymore. We're going to keep just going like it's fun. I know you enjoy it. I enjoy it too. It's totally mutual. Thanks a lot. I'm glad you like it. And I think with that attitude, we've created this group of people that listen to the podcast and Maybe they've never had like really introspective conversations with people. Maybe they've never really thought about living in another part of the world, or maybe they never thought about expanding the life that they live outside of this one realm of consciousness that they've inhabited their whole life. One way of looking at the world, whether it's racist or gluttoness or whether they've just been abusing their body or whether they've just been lazy about getting things done. And when you hear a podcast, where you get a chance to see all these different people's takes on things. You know, from ever last, the singer to my friend Joey Diaz and all these different people's takes on things are all different and dynamic. And having access to that is like having a bunch of really smart friends around you all the time. So if you can listen to these podcasts, not everybody's really smart. You know, I'm not saying we're all really smart. I'm saying some of them are really smart. But you get a chance to have these interesting conversations and they enrich people's consciousness because you might be stuck in a bad spot. I've been in the bad spot my life where I didn't have a lot of cool people to talk to. It couldn't just tune into a podcast, you know, and so my sense of community is sort of It's one kind of a thing of obligation, and a happy obligation. But I definitely think we're obligated to continue to provide content. And I remember being addicted to radio shows or different bands when I was a kid. And you want more stuff. You want constantly more stuff. So that's a big part of community with me. But it's also One of the most, the happiest things that I've gotten from this podcast is people coming up to me telling me that it changed the way they think about things, telling me that now they're happy, telling me that now they eat healthy, telling me that now they just stop being an asshole or something to people, they realize they were really just frustrated and they need to get their shit together in it. It's over and over and over again, you know, and that sense of community. I mean, it was completely accidental. We didn't like set out to try to create some sort of a group that sort of tunes into. We just hope people enjoyed the podcast. We didn't think it was going to be.

Well, I think we'd like to have a full community, but we don't trust people who'd not get fucking cookie. Not everybody has their shit together. No, you can't just walk into my house. You might be nuts and high. That's true. By the way, I'm tired. I just got on from work. I really like to just watch TV. I don't want you coming over my house. So there's a certain boundary that we all have to set up.

And it's going to happen on its own. It's a people are going to gravitate. I told you, all the all the fringe people all over the planet are coming to you, my friend. Shroom, they're going to zoom in on it along with some cops probably. You're going to get some undercover cops that are going to try to pretend to be your friends and try to get deep into the organization and find out your real. And then eventually they'll admit it to you. You'll give them some acid. They'll tell you they're a cop. They'll apologize. You'll say it's okay. And you'll give them. Well, I don't. We don't give anything to anyone.

discovered this it's part of it's part of contemporary culture even it's just a weird thing that we have once we write things down on paper we say this is a law even when it gets to the overwhelming breaking point and it's probably not there with psychedelics i think it is with pot But to when it gets to the undeniable breaking point where people just they they're like no like 70% can say they favor legalization like sorry It's just it's not up for grabs the federal government's not really interested and what you're really all 70% that's great call us when it's a million percent and we'll still tell you to fuck yourself. It's like they just it's that the laws don't make any sense. And at only points at this point at this time, to suppression. It's the only thing that makes sense. They're non-lethal, okay? They're non-lethal life-changing, and there's a lot of people that give it five stars on Yelp, okay? You know what I mean? Some people have that's a bad times on mushrooms, that's a fact, but if mushrooms had a Yelp page, it would be a motherfucker, and shit would be filled with stars, and they would be like, but every one of those reviews would say more at the bottom. You have to collect to get an extra power management to infinite stars are there. Yeah. Yeah. They would be, yeah. If you had less than five stars from mushrooms, you're an asshole. Give it five stars, stupid. It was the best thing that ever happened to you. I mean, the Johns Hopkins University is now starting to public studies, saying that just one mushroom trip 20 years ago is a profound effect on personality and improve people's outlook and their level of happiness. Like makes it can make people happy. That sounds so stupid that it's illegal. But literally, how many people are like you? How many people are like, well, I just needed that reset and with a loving person that I meet, I have a great time and then all of a sudden boom, I'm off to the races on a totally different track. How many people have to say that before We as a culture goat, well, isn't this this Alex Gray, he's like way cooler. He's like a bit way better version. Look, he makes amazing art. He's a nice guy. He's happy. He seems to have filled. He's trying to create a center of beautiful building where people can come and worship all this stuff. Like, what is wrong with that? So, what's going on here? Like, what are we trying to protect people from? It sounds like you're trying to protect people from enlightenment. That would sound preposterous. What kind of a benevolent leader would you be if you try to protect people from potential enlightenment? Or are you scared of potential enlightenment yourself? And knowing that if you do take mushrooms, you can't put on the bulletproof vest and tear gas to kids. You can't. You're not going to do it. You're not going to be the pepper spray cop when the kids are protesting because they're not going to be able to afford it. Yes.

You're going to do gig. If you do do it, you'll have nightmares. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine doing mushrooms and then pepper spraying kids. Oh my god. The demonic nightmares that you would have for decades.

Ooh, Jesus. You'd become a fucking gambling addict for three cigarettes in your mouth at the same time. Lookin' a bed out of a roach cross in a parking lot. You're bed on anything. Whatever distract yourself from. It's a lot of people out there that just got started off in a bad way. And very few things can help them. except psychedelic experiences and they're one of the best ways to affect those. And like we said, it doesn't have to be a drug. You can get psychedelic experiences through meditation. If you practice enough, allegedly, he says he's done it.

What's a door to open people up to people like you to new possibilities, new ways of thinking? And sometimes that's all you need. It's just one unique idea that's putting your head by someone that you don't even know. Just listening to him talk to somebody else and that thought sends you off in a different direction. A person's words can be psychedelic. There's a lot of different things. Childbirth can be psychedelic. There's a lot of different things that happen to you in this life that are, you know, we think of psychedelics as being hallucinations and we think of them as being sort of child's fair. But, you know, the reality is that there's a lot that comes out of them that it's very difficult to get any other way. And the way it comes out so reliably, it's like no one, Like mushrooms work for almost everyone on the planet. Like no one's immune. Like you could be out of focus and not really get there with Kundalini. You really just can never really get your shit and groove and you just have a bad class. You take five grams of mushrooms. You're off to the moon no matter if you like it or not. You're gonna you're gonna get sucked into the wake and hopefully you can let go. Write it out and be okay. But you might just clench up and it might just go haywire.

It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. It's Sorry. Sorry.

Now, what part of the Hudson Valley, is it the Hudson Valley that you're putting this up? Yes.

We're looking at it right now. Yeah. Oh, it's up here as well.

Put it pulled it all the way back, Brian. The construction looks like pretty in depth. Like you guys did a lot of stuff to the place. Oh, yeah. It's been. Are you living inside that?

So that's all going to be concrete those faces.

So they'll be made on some sort of a gigantic mold or something like that and they'll be several of them.

this as well. I mean, this is traditional.

Well, there's no Pope behind you with horse carriage filled with gold, the paper.

And I should tell them that they get something from that. You have a bunch of different

That's her coin. Yeah, you're on money. Awesome. What are you doing? You're going too far. Take it. I need to take it down much. Whatever you do, nobody has guns, okay? No, no, no, no guns ever, right? You should really make that super strict. Yeah. Yeah, you're gonna have a bunch of loons. I go, you know what I love. I love you. I love psychedelics, but I also love the second amendment. Yes, we're gonna rock. And when it comes, it takes our compound.

You know, it would be the cop that pretended to be one of you guys that would freak out and pull his gun. That the real cops will come in and lock you down because you're a violent yet guns. That would be what I would do if I was a cops. I was trying to shut you up. He's down.

And that's a beautiful thing to say, too. I agree with that as well. I get shit about that online. You know, tell people that I like cops, but I think it's important to have police.

And there's a lot of good ones. The people don't want to address that. There's a lot of cops out there that are nice despite all the shit they see every day.

And then you know, they're absolutely your bad cops. That's no doubt about it either. Sure. You know, no one's making up for that. We're just saying, there's, there's a need for it and a lot of them are good. And if you're in a community that's accepting you guys and, Did you have a little weird thing that didn't want you guys to be non-tax?

That sounds awesome.

Well, we'll try to pump it up for you. What kind of talent is this? This is like a town that accepts hippies. No, I wouldn't share with that.

And it was a church before you and, you know, that's fascinating. I always wondered what, where are they? How, you know, how you would pick a site for something like this. You know, I think it's really cool that you're doing it. I think it's really fun, it's exciting. I know you have good intentions, so it's, yeah, we're hopeful.

You're 40 acres. Yes. What are you? Sounds you guys make any freaks. What are you doing? Imagine if Alex Gray was actually just a gun nut. This is all an act.

So yeah, that's perfect. Oh, so it was perfect.

Wow, that's so cool. Yeah, that's a good kickstart, man. You'll get some people definitely from this show and they get to it one more time. I feel like we're PBS something to say this one more time. You know, those gross fucking PBS shows where every 15 years who chime in and try to get you to donate. Like why don't you guys just get some commercials so you know to do this disgusting stop interrupting the conversation your freaks. Um, so do you feel like you're already starting to have a gravity in this town? It's trying to people are starting to be drawn towards this thing that you're creating and putting together with all these ceremonies and what we did have a recent event this past week.

Well, there was a recent event at the, uh, in the on just, uh, this new religion that just moved then, recent of That's how they would describe a bunch of arrests.

It was a translator of Hoffman's? Yes. Would you mean by a translator?

I'm so ignorant. I wasn't aware that Albert Hoffman didn't speak English. Yeah, no, he was Swiss. I think if he's figuring out that makes shit, he's got to be American. I mean, you know, I'm playing.

Wow.

That's a beautiful thing, man, and you're going to have a positive effect on a lot of people who come to those doors. That's everything you would ever want out of a religion, a center where people can mean community and the ability to push something positive about those doors. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, man.

Absolutely. Why not? A great way to reach people. Super easy to do. Set it up. Go to a Libs and get an account. Not hard. Really easy to do. And you could give people just weekly updates on where everything stands. And I'm sure I do. A lot of people get into that. And then, you know, and you can also have your thoughts on current events or your thoughts on, you know, whatever, anything. you know you don't have to be married to any particular amount of time do it for ten minutes if you like do a quick one just to keep everybody posted or do three hours do it over the hell you want but but having something like that when you're doing something like this which is very you're you're you're you're creating this center for community you're creating the center for sort of the distribution of psychedelic ideas. And in doing something like that and creating that kind of a community. You're putting something out there into the world. You're setting forth a beacon. There's going to be so many people that are influenced by that. There's so many people that look at that angle. Well, what is he doing? What's going over there? And they've got, well, they've got the full moons. What does he give our full moons? What are these people doing? Wow, that's pretty. What is this fucking building? And then, really? They get sucked in. Do you know you're doing that? Are you going to be comfortable with a cult leader or how's that?

So you're seeking to inspire other people to be more creative as well. You're seeking to start the spark.

You need to start a farm to grow your own food out there. Exactly. Why not? You've got 40 acres, right? It's a great area. I'm sure it gets a lot of rain.

That's going to be really fascinating when it's done, man. I really can't wait. And I'm really excited about it. But this goes to show you the negative thinking that some people just can't escape. Some people just can't help being negative. No matter what, no matter how positive someone else is messages. Some people can't help being negative. Somebody talked about your enthion, enthion. That's where it's called enthion. They said it was a shrine to your ego. because you're creating a big piece of art, big piece of beautiful art, that's somehow our shrine to your ego. Isn't that a strange thing that people will accept art, but if that art becomes a building, then something's ego about it. It can be the most beautiful thing, as long as it's a painting or sculpture, but when you make a house out of it, Then it's a shrine, and that's a shrine to ego. Like it can't just be a beautiful piece of art. I like it. Why does someone have to hate like that? That's got to be the way you were raised. It's got to be the people that you were around. There's no other way. That kind of douchey thinking should be accepted.

Yeah, but everybody's also entitled to be mocked for their reaction. That's an important part of culture. People need to feel the sting of other people going pitch shut up. What are you talking about? The guys making a beautiful building. What's your problem? Trying to as ego. Negative. A lot of people need hugs. That's what it is. A lot of people didn't get them. A lot of people need them now.

I like I like that you say that and it doesn't sound goofy at all.

Well, it's like the plain facts, you know? Yes, here's sincere. Wow. But it's one of those concepts where you start talking about the God is the one and the one is Lord, and you know, and people go, yeah, crazy fuck going on about your wealth.

It's fascinating beyond fascinating. It is. I love that you're optimistic too. Like you have hope for the human race. Like I think there's no reason to be anything but because despite all the crazy shit that's in the world of million nuclear weapons that can destroy every single thing, we haven't done it yet. I mean, it's kind of amazing. It's kind of amazing that we've done as little pollution as we actually have. I mean, that's really quite shocking that we actually, tone down a little bit, Los Angeles there. That's a little bit of like, hey, everybody settled down. You know, like, apparently the, the pollution was much worse in Los Angeles, like in the, in the 60s and the 70s. They said it was horrible because they had those lead cars. The gas was totally different. They cleaned that up a lot. I mean, it still looks like shit. It's still crazy brown air, but it's better brown air, Alex Gray.

I think there's every reason to be optimistic and although there are some really bad things about the world today. Financial system is crazy and corrupt and it's too easy to manipulate and everybody knows it's rigged and we still have to use it and it's still the thing that pays off lobbyists and moves decisions that favor corporations instead of the general public. We still know that there's a lot wrong with the world but We're learning more about humans, about behavior, about just information itself, about technology, about our place in the universe. We're learning more about the cosmos every day. There's like some new discovery and new thing and new this and new that. And it's just coming at us like like a wave. Wave after wave of information. I don't think it's possible to avoid all that without some gigantic monstrous catastrophe. I think if you just look at the, if you were looking at a graph and you look at the head space of the American person, the average American person from 1960 and look at the head space in 2013, what you're dealing with a completely different educated individual you could be dealing with a level of understanding about the way the world works that's very different from at any other time because almost any question that you've ever had could be answered on your phone within a matter of seconds and although that seems so normal that changed the whole world And that's going on right now. And I think it's snuck up on us so fast. We just got so used to watching movies on our phone that we don't even think it's weird that it's just coming through the air into this little thin wafer thing that's made out of glass and metal in your pocket that you get to watch movies flying through the air. And you don't even think about it. It just seems so normal to you. And it's all psychedelic.

Yeah, I think it's it's unavoidable and it's almost that biologically We can't keep up with all the technological evolution all the time that the correct term to use technological evolution we want to use it biologically but just that alone it's almost like our access to information, it's too great for our feeble minds to process. We're still on some old school Pentium cellaron. Remember the cellaron? One crisis, because it's a Pentium 2? Yeah, I mean, we're like on an old machine. We have Dunbar's number. We can't remember more than 150 people. We fuck up. Can't remember phone numbers anymore because you don't have to remember them because they're on your phone. And now so in that sense, it's like we're almost becoming mush. It's almost like, what the technology is doing is setting us up. It's getting us to a point where it's just overwhelming us with data that we can't help but let us know that I know you have an problem. Okay. I'm going to help you out. We're going to give you a chip. I'm going to put this chip in your brain. And once you do boom, I mean, the government knows where you are at all times. But you have instant 120 IQ. You're going to be able to see things you never saw before. Memorize things fairly quickly. It's a total brain upgrade, a little chip. GPS in there and there's a kill switch. Is that a fucking electrocution bolt into your brain if you say anything bad about the government?

Do you think it all about the technological singularity? Do you follow Kurt's while and all that or singularity stuff?

That's wonderful. Yeah. I'm in a view on her for my sci-fi show. Fabulous. Yeah. So it's kind of her lover recreated Exactly. My robot.

Yes. And yeah, that's, that's amazing. Yeah, an artificial person. Or as close to it as what we have right now, right?

I really feel like we're not giving technology the credit of deserves in that I think it might be a lot. And I know that sounds completely ridiculous because we're so sure that life is like us. We're so sure that life has cells and has blood and you know, it either consumes oxygen or it could be plant-based life, but we know how wood life is. And that's not life. No, that's just something we created. But no, because eventually when you turn it on, If it eventually gets to the point where you could reproduce on its own and think for itself, and defend itself, or knows how to stay alive, or has instincts, or knows how to repair itself, then what exactly is that? And how come it's not life-wide because it doesn't have what? Isn't that skin? Is it not light? If it's reproducing and thinking and altering its environment and then moving forward and creating new energy sources and figuring out how to better use resources, if it becomes intelligent life, and some crazy asshole says, you know, and programs in, hey, defend yourself and reproduce as soon as you can. Oh, you're doomed. The human race is done. They're going to, for sure, that's a life form. There can be a life form. And it's going to get to the point, if this woman is recreating her wife, it's going to get to the point where that's going to be understandable. There's going to be an artificial you. There might even be an artificial you that's exactly you. It's your consciousness and another body. You might be able to live several lives at once, just to get you to fuck one of them up. You've got a bunch of other good lives going on simultaneously.

Now what's wrong with that? There's something crazy about turning grandma on. Yeah, I grandma has a great beyond.

Yes, there's something fucking creepy about that man. I mean, maybe we need to let things go Maybe we need to realize that you know grandma is the past and whatever great memories we had of her so are you going to close her Facebook account? You imagine if grandma's Facebook account becomes her Wow, that's not But it's kind of calm, right? I mean, I've talked about Facebook a thousand years ago. It seems to me that a Blade Runner type scenario is inevitable though, where they have a life that is artificial, but acts so much like us that itself doesn't even know it's artificial. Because if you're going to program a robot correctly to be an artificial person that acts like a person, you don't tell them it's artificial, you want them to think in their real, right? Of course. It would be the Blade Runner scenario.

Oh, no, I think we definitely killed them. Do you ever see the people? There's one guy, so it's a really sketchy theory, but he painted Neanderthal as like a guerrilla-faced predator. And he tried to say that Neanderthal probably hunted man, and that's why we drove it to extinction. And that we based our image of what Neanderthal looked like, based on a human skin. But we don't really have any skin from Neanderthals. We know that they were far stronger than people. And we know that they had a much thicker bone structure. They were smaller. They were like five feet tall, but they would weigh 200 pounds. They were really, really incredibly strong. Yeah, well, they were more good. Yeah, more like a lower primate than like a human or a homo sapient. And so this guy, see if you can pull that up, Brian. It was pretty trippy. It's mostly bullshit, but it's kind of fun bullshit. This guy. It's fuck, what would you say? Nandertal predator. Yeah, see if you find that. And he had like a whole video where they mapped out in his opinion what it would look like. 3D imagery and so we had this really scary look in chimpanzee thing big giant eyes One of the eye tissue from the unit all see there and they have a much larger highball really humans Yeah, they're bothered. They're just they're built fairly differently. So this guy drew him up like crazy gorilla monsters It's really I mean, I don't think it's right, but it's it's kind of cool to look at and it's interesting just to conceive of a yeah, there it is Wow That's how he drew it. He drew it like they might have been hairy and they might have been like, but they were really muscular and he made them look more chimpanzee-like than human-like. Yeah. Yeah. Ha. Yeah, he did a whole documentary on it, I think.

I've been hunting for Sasquatch. Not hunting like trying to hurt him. I should say searching for Sasquatch. of doing this TV show. We went up to Washington State and we stayed in the woods out near Mount Rainier. And it's like a tropical rain. I mean, not a tropical rain forest. A real rain forest. Like if you've never been up there, you've no idea what that's like. It's the weirdest environment ever. You park your car, you take a walk, you'll a hundred yards into the woods, and you might as well be on another planet. You literally enter into a different dimension. There's the dimension of of there's a dimension of highways and houses and that's all out there but once you go into a rainforest like you just you go a little bit in and then you're engulfed by this new reality and this reality as you see an elk running past you and they disappear in the trees because everything's so thick and people start to see big foot you know they start seeing anything man you know what the fuck is out there you think big foot's preposterous until you go to a rainforest like the Pacific Northwest and you walk around you like fuck maybe man

They do have all that stuff really early on.

Isn't that what those furries call themselves, too? They call themselves theorians?

Not the same thing wrong with being a furry. Much love.

If you accidentally stumbled into a furry convention once in Pittsburgh. It was, you know what? It's gonna sound stupid, but I thought it was beautiful. I thought it was beautiful that these people found a place where they could all get together and do this. They obviously... They like doing it. They like doing it. And you know, if you do that in your neighborhood, people go, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you dressed up like a giant chipmunk? But for whatever reason, I don't know why they like doing it. It doesn't seem like they're hurting anybody and we were walking, they seem so happy. We're walking down the street and all these furry dudes and gals, we're laughing and talking together. Oh, they're crazy costumes on. Nobody took the shit off. And I was like, this is the weirdest thing ever, but it looks so fun.

Well, like a lot of psychedelic drugs have animal ideas embedded in them. And it's especially DMT or Ayahuasca. There's the Jaguars or Leopard's Jaguars, right? Jaguars and snakes. And those sort of things, I mean, it could have been many different psychedelic compounds. We don't even know about anymore that these people would found and that put in them together with these ideas and combining animals and human into one form.

That's a really good one. I never even thought of until just now.

Angels are part bird. I just thought there were people with wings, but no, obviously not. They had a bird's head, then you'd be like their part bird. As long as they have a human tag, they're like, just not even a bird, man. It's an angel.

How about Ganesh? Yeah. There's so many versions of the combining of a human and an animal and sacred religious artwork. Really fascinating. Like the Hindi stuff where there's a man with a lion's head and people have it like octopus arms of six arms. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, a bunch of people trying to make sense of what the they're experiencing. Soma, whatever it is. Exactly.

I think Steve from most people like it's cannabis most people are like it's a sleeping pill dummy What are you talking about? They don't know like some of the sleeping pill is they've fucked up They should never named it soma some is like it's it's it's a sacred psychedelic drug from was it was it from beta the Rigved six thousand years ago the earliest human

And some asshole songs. And turn that into a sleeping pill. From a single sleeping pill. What a bunch of dicks. Well, there you go. I mean, that's like really rude. You know, that's like, Catholics would never take that. If you had a sleeping pill that was called the sacrament, the Jesus sacrament, they'd be like, hey, fuck, hey, you can't call that. But people are like, so I'm like, yeah, that's in another country, and we're a Maca, and we're going to call it so I'm like, is it like the name? So I'm like, it is. Okay, so I'm a. Yeah. But the original song was supposed to be an amazing psychedelic, right?

But as an artist, why do you think that you were the first person to really encapsulate the trip to mean experience? Because all these other people that had these amazing works of art, the only people that came close to capturing the trip to mean experience to me were the ancient Egyptians. There's a lot of ancient Egyptian stuff, like just two toned comments, headdress, and the gold, the gold, that's very tripped to mean like. And there's one of the only things in historical art, to me, that rings trippy. You know, there's something about it. You can always hear music. Like some kind of trip to me music when you're watching these hieroglyphs and you're seeing these images. You're like, the symbols, even if you don't understand what they mean. When you look at the symbols run together, your mind starts to try to form patterns. and you start to try to think the way these people are thinking and see these incredibly complex geometric shapes that they had turned into buildings. Buildings like the Temple in Man, this gigantic building where each segment represents different shock rows and different energy points in the human body. There's text around each one explaining this part of the human body. It's fucking insane.

Trying to wrap your mind around Egyptian mythology and what they meant by that and the origin of that how it led them to the society that was able to create those insane structures. They're amazing. I've haven't been. I've only, really crazy place I've been to is Chechnica. I went to Chechnica once and that was one of those things where you're walking around going, how did they, what are they doing? How did they do this? Why did they do this? This is crazy and no one lived here anymore. They just all moved out. They made this and then they left. Somebody left behind this.

Nobody there's there. No. We funny if some dudes have this in my house now. But door and one of the temples.

They just mowed down one of the ancient Mayan temples or pyramids that was there. It's like a really, really old structure. Oh, I didn't hear that. Yeah. They plowed it down because it was on private land just to use it for limestone. Yeah, people are freaking out like what the fuck did you do?

Probably the CIA pretend to be in the Taliban. Look what they did. These folks. I didn't say that. I didn't mean it.

Well, it was still, it was likely true. I mean, religious ideologies, which gets people to do almost every, really fucking crazy thing. You see the money or religious ideology, you know, or ideology in general, negative ideology. We were talking about the Boston bombings. We were like, You can't do that without ideology. Like no one is able to do something like that without ideology. Because you have to have something that allows you to think that that's the correct thing to do when your ideology of hate. Not all ideologies are bad, but you don't get really insane acts of faith like that without an ideology. And seeing acts of terror is some either. Both things come from, you know, It's not always bad, but it's tricky. It's tricky when you just automatically subscribe to the patterns that are in front of you. We like to be in patterns, like getting to that mild bullshit thing on the desktop. We feel really comfortable going down already tread paths.

Well, the original term was supposed to be like a war against your own vices, right? Personal vices. Yeah. Yeah. It was somehow another way.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's what we're here for. What is it? Marshall McLuhan said that human beings are the sex organs of the machine world. That's what we're doing. We're just creating little computer babies. That's how computers get made. People create them.

Are you going to download your consciousness into a computer? Well, the time comes.

Or it was to say you're not going to create a zombie in the next dimension. The person going to be born without a soul because you put it in somebody's fucking computer. And so then all of a sudden the next dimension is like, don't have that. You got a bunch of zombies running around. That could happen. Damn it. Maybe that's the zombie apocalypse. Maybe that's where we're now. Yeah, when we're seeing the walking dead and this sort of thing, the zombie team keeps returning over and over and over again. That's a warning telling us not to download our consciousness to computers.

That's why it's weird to go to someone's Twitter page after their dad. Have you ever done that before? No, but on page. I have a friend who really great guy who expired, never known then, I go to his Facebook page and read his posts. Yes. And Joe, you know, keep reading his post. I'm still getting a little bit of him, you know? Exactly. If you watch a video of him, you get in a little bit of him, you know? It's not new stuff.

He was like 72, right? Yeah. Isn't that crazy that the doors? He was in the doors. And he's 72. It's like, we have been in a farm that we're going on. How old are we getting? Jesus.

He downloaded himself in the computer right before he kicked off.

What do you think the next stage of consciousness is going to be? Do you think it's going to be some sort of an ability to read each of those minds to integrate with each other, to exchange information freely through the air, like a Wi-Fi signal, What do you think is going to be? I, all of that. All done. It's coming right.

I have a completely uneducated faith in the fact that people far smarter than me are going to continue to do awesome work. I'm convinced that they're going to continue to come out of school and figure new things out. Even though I'm not placing, I'm like, wow, we're really coming up with a really fast computer. I'm not coming up with shit. But somewhere, I'm convinced they're going to continue to do awesome stuff. So whoever you are out there, keep it up. Congratulations and thanks.

Well, thank you, Alex Gray, and please go to Alex Gray.com, GREY.com, and please participate in the Kickstarter. It's your chance to be a part of something really cool. beautiful building that's going to have a beautiful cause. It's going to have a beautiful movement behind it and you're already doing amazing things and I swear to God if I lived up there I'd be visiting you all the time. Maybe when this shit hits the fan I moved to the Hudson Valley. It's cool up there, right? Yeah absolutely. It's cool in the winter though, no?

I would love to come check it out. And I absolutely want to come once it's all done. Just to see how crazy it's going.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, let's do some sort of a party or something. Yeah. But all you crazy hippies out there, keep it together. It's you nutty at this party. You know, Alex, great to cast and change him. Someone's taking it all.

Find a nice spot in the woods. So it's Alexgrade.com. Is there any, and on Twitter, your Twitter is Alexgrade CosmCOSM. And so please follow him on Twitter. Alexgrade Cosm right now. You got 22,511. Let's see if we can boost that shit up to 22,600. I'm PBS again. I went PBS again. I apologize ladies and gentlemen. Please but the support this it's an awesome cause if you got the cash if you don't you don't do it. Thank you everybody for tuning in. We really appreciate it. Thanks everybody who's been coming out to these shows and all the cool people that I met when I was looking for big foot. We'll be back on Thursday with the great Graham Hancock. He'll be joining us. Thanks to Ting for sponsoring our podcast go to rogan.ting.com and save 25 bucks your freak. Thanks to Squarespace Squarespace.com forward slash Joe. And if you want to use it, use the offer code Joe 5. Thanks also to onit.com, code O and IT. Use the codename rogan save some money. God damn, I got to record that shit. It sounds so repetitive. I'm broken. I can't say it anymore. Alright, we love you guys and we'll see you on Thursday. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.