Transcript for #725 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Fantel over the US all over the US and Randall you guys together is so exciting to me because I know you guys spend a lot of time together and you were working together on just this current project we did a fantastic research trip across the channel scablands of Washington State which Randall has been walking the walk on for decades and he just showed me the absolute irrefutable evidence of cataclysmic flooding in that in that area and it plays a very important part in the book a North America was the epicenter of a global cataclysm between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago. And when you see it through Randall's eyes, you get it immediately.

I'm going to pass that one to Rattle first off.

But when you see it on the landscape, I mean, for example, there's a place called the Camus Prairie that Ronald took me to. Well, you see these kind of ripples in the ground and they look a little bit like current ripples on the beach, you know, but actually they are current ripples, but they're 50 feet high and hundreds and hundreds of feet long and they're that receding flood left those ripples on that landscape then above the town of Wenachie there's a gigantic boulder which didn't come from Wenachie at ways 18,000 tons and it got there in an iceberg the size of an oil tanker. which grounded against that side of the valley, the flood water is receded. The iceberg melted away and it left this humongous boulder there and actually there's thousands of them. Thousands of these gigantic boulders just scattered across the landscape of the Pacific north-west and it all speaks of this cataclysmic horrendous humongous flood that happened to our southern day, 100 years ago.

Yeah, that is. Something about, or let's just say, really fucking big. I mean, an enormous, an enormous thing. And the fact is, if there was just one, it would be spectacular, but there's thousands of them. And they're all just washed away by the water. So when the ice caps suddenly melted down and we know now that that happened because of the impact of several fragments of a giant comet back 12,800 years ago, it released a huge flood of melt water and that melt water carried. It was joceling with icebergs, huge icebergs. And many of these icebergs had rocks in chained within them. As glacier, glacial ice moves, it snatches up and in chains rock and keeps it inside. There's a name for them, they're called glacial aratics. And so they're in these icebergs and the icebergs are jostling against each other and the flood has ripped up whole forest by its roots and there's mud and there's rubble and it's rumbling and you see it all on the landscape up there.

The dating is very secure, very secure.

So this is fractal. This is fractal. You get it in the small scale. In the first image Raddle Show, the same phenomenon, there with a flood just two feet deep. And then we come to this humongous testimony to what happened 12,800 years ago. And it's easy to drive through it and not really figure what you're driving through. But once you look at it and realize what happened, it really dilates the imagination.

unimaginable, unimaginable, and human beings lived through that, and it changed everything. These, they're called extinction-level events. These global cataclysms wipe the slate clean. They change everything, and they set a new order in motion, a new order follows that. So classic example is the extinction of the dinosaurs, 65 million years ago. That turned dinosaurs into chickens, you know. They were gone, and it opened the way for mammals. And our distant ancestor is a sort of 65 million-year-old Shrew, which was going nowhere until the dinosaurs were wiped by a cosmic impact. And then they began to evolve. And here we are. So dinosaurs became chickens and Shrews became, you've been being the world-chargers for me to imagine in this.

Well, that's the harder. That's the story of evolution one can buy into it or not. But certainly mammals were going nowhere before the dinosaurs were swept out of the way. And the point I'm making is that these events, which are called extinction level events, they reset the clock. They make everything start again. And this is why what happened in North America 12,800 years ago is so important. because that period, the whole period was 12,800 to 11,600 years ago. That period stands right in the foundations of what we think of as the beginnings, the origins of civilization and yet mainstream archaeology and historians have not taken it into account. And I don't blame them for that. This is new information. This is new science that's been mainly published in the professional journal since 2007. It's very intriguing new information, but we cannot any longer trust the established model of the origins of civilization since it does not take into account an extinction level event right in the foundations and that's why I say the House of History appears to be built on foundations of sound.

It's been whatever you, whenever you propose a cataclysm. of any kind. It's a curious thing. I don't know whether it's psychological or something more sinister than that. But whenever you propose that and present evidence for it, you can be sure that you will be descended upon by a furious crowd of critics. And the group of scientists, more than 30 of them, very significant mainstream scientists who have been presenting the evidence for the comet impact, have had a fight on their hands. since 2007, but I can say with confidence and I detail it at length in the book that they have won that fight. Every criticism that's been made of their work, they have refuted and they've come back with new evidence. Sometimes three or four papers a year and it's a compelling case and we can't ignore it.

Yeah. See, what we got to consider is that we are looking at objects, which might be a mile wide, that are coming into the atmosphere at 70,000 miles an hour. And they are hot. You know, Some people will remember a comet who make a levy nine that hit Jupiter back in 1994. That was a small comet, just two kilometers wide, broken to about 20 fragments. The explosive power of those impacts on Jupiter was 300 gigatons. Now let me put that into perspective. The entire world's nuclear arsenal where it to go off at once would be 6.4 gigatons. So, you're looking at something beyond imagination. The power of these impacts is absolutely colossal. Numbers don't do it. Just imagine a world on fire. It wasn't changed forever.

No, no, no, no. This was a comet. I mean, the blue. The blue itself. It's like the size of the Earth. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Well, there's actually a period. This is an episode rather than a single incident, and that's part of the mystery. First off, there are the impacts 12,800 years ago. that causes this cataclysm centered on North America but global and global temperature plummeted I mean people who talk about global warming or today what what happened the change in temperature 12,000 eight hundred years ago is just stunning and this is undeniable. This is undeniable. This is undeniable.

This is undeniable. This is undeniable.

and they called it geologist call it the younger drier so it's a 1,200 year period temperatures plunged at the beginning massive animal extinctions and then 1,200 years later equally suddenly temperatures shoot up again dramatically and there's another series of floods so that the period is 12,800 to 11,600 years ago and I think I don't know if Randall agrees we're sure that the comet was the cause of the first event 12,800 years ago I think other bits of the comet were responsible for the second event as well. I think there was an impact in ocean which through water vapor up into the upper atmosphere caused a greenhouse effect and created that sudden spike in warming and that huge flood.

of civilization in the aftermath of these events there's the only thing that makes sense this is this is this is we have now we have now the data that makes sense of what previously has been very mysterious and unexplained evidence so for folks who are not aware of both of your work

Well, fingerprints of the gods was published in 1995, which is, which is 20 years ago. And the magicians of the gods, the new book is the sequel to fingerprints. And I've written it because there's just this massive new information that changes the whole picture completely.

It's really with the climate of Egypt has been as dry as it is today for about the last 5,000 years. So you have to go back, you actually have to go back to this period, to this younger dryers period, to get those heavy rainfalls that could have eroded the sinks in the way it is. And I want to pay tribute to the work of John Anthony West and Robert Schock from Boston University because they broke this story way back in 1992 and at the time The Egyptological establishment, of course, were furious that anybody dared to suggest that this thing might be 12,000 years old. The Egyptologist said, we know this thing's dates from 2,500 BC. Actually, one of the things I've done in this book is look at what the Egyptological case rests on. And it's a fairytale. It rests on nothing. It's kind of ideology. It's their idea of how things should be rather than any real factual evidence that puts this thing at 2,500 BC. and the geology puts this thing much, much older. Now the argument of the archaeologists at the time was, and anyway, this thing couldn't possibly be 12,000 years old, because if that was the work of some unknown culture 12,000 years ago, we're going to find lots of other monuments around the world that it 12,000 years old, and we don't find any. Well, that was 1992. But now we're in 2015, and the site of Gobekli Tepi in Turkey has been discovered with its gigantic megaliths, a deliberately buried time capsule buried more than 10,000 years ago and created eleven and a half thousand years ago. And if you can make go back to teppy, you can make this things. We are finding the fingerprints of this loss civilization popping up all around the world. Indeed, on any archaeological site where you can be absolutely sure of the dating. The dating proves to be much older than we have been taught by archaeologists. They recently discovered a huge, megalithic site, 40 meters underwater in the Sicily channel. It's been underwater for best part of 10,000 years, which means that megalithic site is at least that old and maybe much older. And we can be sure about the dating because it's underwater. Likewise, we can be sure of the dating of Quebecly Tepi because whoever made it deliberately buried it, sealed it and no later organic material. got in to contaminate the carbon dating record and give falsely them.

Well, the dates that are coming out of it now, the earlier states now, it's important to be clear that there's much more of gobeckly tippy under the ground. Right. There's actually about 50 times as much as has already been excavated. which is under the ground still and not been dug up yet. They know it's there because they've been over the whole site with ground penetrating radar and what they're seeing is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these huge 20 to 50 ton t-shaped megalithic pillars buried under the ground. Somebody just as somebody went to enormous lengths to create this site. They also or somebody else went to enormous lengths to bury it and actually go backly teppy means pot belied hill in the Turkish language and that whole pot belied hill that covers this site was artificially put there by human beings, teams of men and women with buckets filled with rubble and stones filling it in and covering it up.

Really not. There's not. It's just a fact that it happened because because archaeologists and geologists can tell from the nature of the material that covers these pillows, that it isn't a natural sedimentation that they were deliberately covered up.

I've got my head up to that absolutely you've got to be a bit obsessed to stick with something like this I you know I came in for an enormous amount of of criticism and flag when I published and think of Prince of the Gods and I'm human, it hurts when people say really bad things about me. But what I've learned is you just have to persist. You just have to keep going. Even if your ideas are shouted down by the established holders of knowledge in our society. If you feel strongly enough about those ideas, you've got to hang with them. And I've hung with these ideas for more than 20 years now. what we're seeing is just a massive new evidence that basically vindicates the notion of a loss civilization. See, if I may say, go backly teppy. The earliest dates they've pulled out of the ground now, which I think is the foundation of the site, is 11,600 years ago. And that is really significant because the 11,600 years ago was the second episode of Cataclysm at the end of the younger drier. And we know it was accompanied by massive global flooding.

No. It was made after the cataclysm was over. And archaeologists have a problem with this, because the site is very sophisticated. It contains the world's first perfectly north-south aligned structure. And you can't do that without precise astronomy. In fact, they're a huge astronomical implications to the Gobekli Tepi site. The architecture is is massive. And you see the problem archaeology has is that up till now, they've been teaching us that megalithic sites like this, astronomically, amgalithic sites like this, are maximum of five to five and a half thousand years old. And suddenly we're looking at a site, which is far bigger than any other megalithic site known in the world, which is at least six thousand years older than any other known sites. So how do they explain this? Our ancestors are supposed to have been just hunter-gatherers at that time, no maths, following the game, not with a sophisticated societal organization that would have specialists who had these knowledge, who had these skills who could put this, put this work together. So the fairy tale archaeologist are now telling about Gobekli Tepi, is that one morning a group of hunter-gatherers woke up somehow, divinely inspired, with the complete knowledge of mega-lific architecture and how to organize a workforce and how to bring them to a site which, by the way, there's no water on that site. and to put this whole, this whole proposition together, and at the same time, exactly at the same moment, 11,600 years ago, we suddenly get evidence of agriculture spreading all over Turkey. It's like go back to Ethiopia as a center of innovation and associated with it is the birth of agriculture in Turkey. And to me, this looks like a transfer of technology. It does not look to me like a group of hunter-gatherers woke up one morning magically equipped with the ability to invent agriculture and create a megalithic site like this. It looks to me like people who already had that knowledge came into that area. settled there and try to pass on their knowledge to the local people and maybe use to go back to Tepi as a kind of university or initiation centre to train and teach people in those skills. That's what it feels like and another point is that that same day, 11,600 years ago. is the date that Plato gives us for the destruction and submergence by flood of the lost civilization of Atlantis. And up till now, archaeologists have dismissed the whole Atlantis story, and they regard it as kind of pseudoscience, although it comes from Plato. But Plato said very clearly that this happened 9,000 years before the time of Solon, and Solon lived in 600 BC, so Plato is telling us, Atlantis went down. 9,600 BC, 11,600 years ago, exactly the date of the second spike of the younger drier scatterclism.

Well, yeah, that's all the same around the same place. This was the point I wanted to make when we talk about these objects coming in at 70,000 miles an hour. They are packing an enormous amount of kinetic energy and heat and when they hit the ground. There are distinct products left in the soil, and those include nanodimons. They're created by the shock and the impact. You can only see them, under a microscope, they're tiny, tiny, tiny things, and carbon's failures, and the melt glass, which is just basically identical to trinitite, which is the melt glass that you get from nuclear explosions. They're called impact proxies, and there's a distinct layer of the soil all around the world. dated to 12,800 years ago, which contains this stuff and also contains the evidence of continental wildfires burning. And I think Randall might want to address that issue of continental wildfires and why they happened.

Thousands years of hell. It's really impossible to imagine what the what the world was like then for the people who lived in it. And I think it makes sense. of why all around the world we have a story of a global flood. This is not something confined to the story of Noah in the Bible. This is a universal story of a cataclysm that changed the world and wiped away a former golden age and left us with the present order of things. all around the world and secondly all around the world and this is intriguing there is a universal fear of comets now why should we be afraid of comets we see comets up in the sky they've whiz through they have this nice tail they look pretty why should we be scared of them but every culture in the world has myths and traditions that associate comets with disaster and I think it's pretty obvious why because this this comet impact 12,800 years ago was remembered by the survivors and they passed that memory down to their children and their children's children and it's still with us today and it's now we know based on something very real

The first thing they've tried to do is to get rid of it. This is often the case where new information emerges that contradict established theories. And it's a strange phenomenon in science, because we like to think of scientists as rational and reasonable people. But the fact is that when you get very committed to a particular model, to a particular idea, I think you start to connect your own personality to it. And any attack on that idea becomes an existential attack on you yourself. And it is, and it is sad, because again and again, what we see is the new facts being dismissed because they don't fit the existing theory. Where, in fact, what we should be doing is modifying the existing theory to explain the newly discovered facts. And this is a problem in the whole history of science.

Exactly. This is why I've come to view archaeology and history as a kind of more ideology really than science. There's an ideological view about how civilization developed that we have this long, slow, gradual, politically correct rise from the Upper Paleolithic, from the hunter-gatherers, through the Neolithic, into the first cities and We go on and on and then we develop technologies and here we are, the apex and the pinnacle of this whole story and gosh, we're so proud of ourselves and our achievements and we think we're wonderful and we praise and value our technology. I've got nothing against technology but there's a hint of arrogance in this, there's a hint of pride that it was all about us. And I think that once you start introducing this new view of history that there may have been an earlier civilization a high civilization, which was utterly wiped out by a global cataclysm. While it contradicts that ideological position, and you find yourself in ideological struggle with archaeologists, and that's why, you know, for example, if my book is handed over to any archaeologist to review, they're just going to piss all over it. They're not even probably going to read it. They're just going to say, Hank, they say again and again, Hank is a pseudo scientist. Nobody should listen to him. That's there. system of attack is to first of all devalu you so much that nobody will ever listen to you and that's why I appreciate the support of just real down to earth people out there who are looking at this information and finding that actually yeah the story of history we've been taught doesn't make sense and this new information does make sense

And you know, at that time, we were sticking our necks out, putting that information forward. I was in that documentary as well. But today, things have changed. And what I see is the archaeological mainstream in a state of denial about this information. They just don't want to recognize it and absorb it. But they're going to have to recognize it. It's going to be forced upon them. whether they like it or not.

And something else, although this sounds a bit conspiratorial, I think the existing view of history is part of a mind control system in our society. It's something that we're presented with that we take in with our mother's milk and we're never supposed to question. I think if you control the past, you do actually control the present and the future as well.

Exactly. And it starts to raise questions over everything. Right.

I mean it was over a course of a very short period of time. The scientists who have been diligently working away in this field since they've published their first paper in 2007. I've just brought out a new paper in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. July 2015 where they're doing a statistical analysis of all the sites where the evidence comes from and what that tells us is that this is what is referred to as an isochron this event 12,800 years ago it's not we're not looking at the effects of 100 or 200 years of events we're looking at something that happened effectively in a single afternoon across 50 million square kilometers of the earth surface

And it's fucked for a thousand years. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then I'd like Rattle to address this issue of continent-wide wildfires because we do see this in the in the in the stratum that when you get this superheated ejector coming down on on ancient primal forests, consider the effect.

They refer to them as the Clovis culture. And because that culture was one of the casualties of this comet impact, the comet impact is often referred to as the Clovis comet.

And it's the... So you have the ice cap north of roughly Minnesota and south of it you have a heavily vegetated area covered with primal forests and that's what goes on fire and the reason it goes on fire is because when these impactors come in they generate a huge amount of heat and And what is called ejecta, superheated ejecta, is thrown up into the upper atmosphere, and it falls down all over the continent, and it sets the world on fire.

Yeah. This is why I've written this book because it's mind-boggling, it's mind-boggling material. And up till now, most of the information has been confined to the really verified scientific journals. Very little of it has got out into the public domain. So one of the things I've tried to do is to put this together into it into a form that's very accessible to the general public because we all need to know about this. This is our yesterday. This is our background. This is where we come from, the present order of the world. has descended from that moment.

Yeah, and when Rand says Firestone and Weston Kennedy's talking about some of the lead scientists who have presented the evidence for the younger dryus impact because they have triumphed. although they were attacked and sometimes viciously and frankly speaking sometimes dishonestly they were attacked but they defended themselves so well and they kept on bringing in new data and new information that actually now we should be regarding their view as the mainstream there are a few critics still hanging in there who would like human beings to have been responsible for the extinction of older the mega mammals and who would you know who just are in denial about the climate change at that time but There are no longer the mainstream in my field.

It's an interesting situation because When we look at the arguments of history and archaeology, very little of the story is told in North America. As it's taught in schools and universities today, they look at places like Sumer in Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt. further down in South America, some of the great cultures of the Andes. But it's like North America is missing from the map. They talk about hunter gatherers coming in here across the Bearing Strait, and they're still a dogged faction of archaeology that wants to maintain that that just happened about 13,000 years ago. and that there was no human beings in the Americas before that although the mass of contradictory evidence is overwhelming that dogma as well it's obvious that the Americas were populated long before that and those populations did not only come in across the bearing straight they came in in other ways as well And then there just seems to be nothing for a very long time. And North Americans kind of left out of the story of civilization. Well, now I think we know why. Because North America was at the heart of this disaster. It was at the absolute epicenter. And the slate was completely wiped clean here. And that's what archaeologists are looking at. They're seeing a wiped clean slate. And they think they're seeing the beginning of something. Actually, they're not. They're seeing the movement all of something after a horrendous disaster.

put something in there that brings it home in a way. See, this event, 12,800 years ago, we know now it was caused by fragments of a very large comet. And the work suggests that that comet may have been more than 100 kilometers in diameter originally when it entered the inner solar system. See, comet 62 miles, right? It's a big big old comet. Well, these comets, they come in from deep space. How big is the one that killed the dinosaurs?

Well, that's thought to be 10 kilometers wide. That's about 6 miles. That's about that object. 6 miles wide. And 10 times that big? Yeah. These things come in from deep space. There are reservoirs of comets. There's a place that they call the Ort Cloud, which is just so far away that it's almost impossible to imagine it. but it contains trillions of comets and often there they're in stable orbits they're not coming into the inner solar system but as the solar system orbits around the center of the galaxy our galaxy is the Milky Way and we are in orbit around the center of the galaxy our sun our solar system everything is in orbit around the center of the galaxy and that orbit is not only in the plane of the galaxy imagine a dolphin diving up and down coming out of the surface of the sea Descending below, rising up again, that's what the Solar System is doing. And those passages through the Galactic Plane disturb the art cloud, and they send comets winging in to the inner Solar System. Thank God for Jupiter. Jupiter, with its huge gravity, is the great protector of the Earth. We should all wake up every day and say, thank you, Jupiter. Thank you, Jupiter. This doesn't happen too often, but every now and then a comet gets past Jupiter's God and comes in and enters the inner solar system and the calculations show this happened about 20,000 years ago and that comet went into an orbit that crosses the orbit of the Earth twice a year. We are still crossing the orbit of that comet twice a year and there is still a very disturbing amount of debris. within it. It's called the Torrid Meteor Stream. We've actually just finished our latest passage through the Torrid Meteor Stream. The Earth passes through the Torrid Meteor Stream twice a year. It takes 12 days to pass through it because the Torrid Meteor Stream more numbers is 30 million kilometres wide and we orbit at the rate of 2.5 million kilometres a day. So, 12 days to pass through it and in the last 11,000 or so years we've been lucky. We've been passing through the 30 million mile wide stream. We've been passing through bits where there are just filaments of small debris. But the evidence is that it is actually full of large, rocky debris, including one object that maybe as much as 30 kilometers in diameter, sitting in that torrid meteor stream. So it's like I compared to like strapping on a blindfold and crossing a six lane highway and just hoping that you don't get hit by a truck. You know, that's what it comes down to and we've been we've been lucky so far actually the most recent definite impact from the Torrid meteor stream was in 1908 and that was in Russia in Siberia. It's called the Tunguska event as I said there's two passages through the stream one in June end of June early July and one in November And this was at the end of June, an object, not very big, about a hundred meters in diameter. Came out of the Torrid Meteor Stream, entered the atmosphere of the earth, and actually blew up in the sky. It was an air burst about five kilometers above the ground. It flattened 80 million trees across 2,000 square kilometers. I'm sorry, I keep using kilometers from almost 2,000 square kilometers of the earth surface. That's an area about the size of the city of London. If that impact had happened over an inhabited area, hundreds of thousands of people would be killed. And we would all be paying much more attention to the Torrid meteor stream today than we are presently doing. We should be paying attention to it.

God. So here's the thing. We are still interacting with the debris of this comet that changed the world 12,800 years ago. It's not something remote and distant. It's part of our daily lives. And it is something we should be paying attention to, and a number of astronomers are very concerned about the tourist meet history. Now, I don't want to be the one who goes around the world, you know, wearing the sandwich board, saying that doom is nice. I love you guys falling. Yeah. I don't want to be that. I don't want to manifest that. I don't want to bring that down. I actually want to say that there's something positive to say about this. We are almost certainly the first civilization that's ever existed on this planet that has the capacity to intervene in our cosmic environment. Should we choose to do so? We can make sure that we are not the next lost civilization. We can make sure that life and light continue on this planet and that our story continues, but we need to pay attention to our cosmic environment. And a number of scientists are now saying the same thing, that it's irresponsible of us. to pretend that impacts like this may they just happen every 100 million years we don't need to worry about them. We are intimately connected with a force that can change life on Earth and we have the power to do something about it so I would suggest. Instead of wasting trillions of dollars globally, creating weapons of mass destruction to destroy one another and to manifest the hatred and fear and suspicion that they're just whizzing around the world right now. We should be looking at a grand human project, a cooperative effort. to make our cosmic environment safe and we have the technology now. It's just a matter of choice, it's just a matter of budget. Trillions of dollars are spent on arms and roughly 20 to 30 million dollars are spent a year on so-called space watch. It's a ridiculous, of chump change, given the nature of the threat and the implications.

Yeah, the earliest, I mean, the earliest definite anatomically modern human skeletal remains, date back about 196,000 years. There's some other plausible ones at about 210,000 years. Nothing before that. It doesn't mean that we were not anatomically modern before that. It may just mean that archaeologists haven't found that the data yet, but we can be sure that people like you and me have been around for about 200,000 years with the anatomically modern form and the anatomically modern brain. So there's a mystery right there. Why did we wait 190,000 years to establish the first civilizations? It raises the possibility that we could have done so much earlier and that the slate has been wiped clean.

It's extremely important, but again, unfortunately, marine archaeology has its eye off the ball, most of the resources in marine archaeology go into shipwrecks, looking for shipwrecks. And I get that. That's the really interesting to look at shipwrecks. But there is a prejudice in archaeology which says they could have been no interesting civilization before 12,000 years ago. So since those lands that were submerged by rising sea levels have been underwater for 10 or 12,000 years, we're not really interested in human habitations there. And this is the problem, a very focused effort needs to be made to look at these last lands. I can put that in miles, 10 million square miles of the Earth's surface roughly Europe and China added together. was submerged by the rising sea levels at the end of the last ice. That's what's missing from the record. And again, we're talking about wiping the slate clean and rattles right, those ice caps that sit on top of a continent, which are mountain high. They're going to just ground grind to powder, anything that lies below them. So was there a civilization there before where the ice cap formed? Who knows?

I think you have an interesting point on the eight wars, in this sense, because there you have this massive, it's like a sea salt. There you have this massive weight pressing down on the North American continent. And suddenly it's lifted. That massive weight pushed down North America, but it lifted up other areas. The other end of the sea salt. Then the weight comes off. This end goes up and the other end goes down. And suddenly you get the possibility of the submergence of a landmass. It just falls under the sea.

I don't think that in your Spain? Yeah, it's I think it's much more recent. Much more recent than the information we're looking at. So it's just another Yeah, it was submerged. That was supposed. There could be a lot of reasons why this happens. Actually, it's happening in the UK, where I'm from, because the ice sheets in the UK were on the north of the UK over Scotland, and they were pressing Scotland down, and they caused the southern part of England to rise up. Then when you take those ice sheets off, the southern part starts to go down, so that's places like the Isle of White in English Tunnel. They're sinking beneath the sea because of this still, the effect of that rebound is happening today. That's called the glacial four bulge.

climate change is another ideological struggle. Sure climate change is taking place. But what are the causes for this? Are we so sure that it's all caused by human beings? I would say there's very good reason for humanity to clean up our acts in lots of ways regardless of the issue of climate change. We're living where we're abusing Mother Earth. We're living upon this planet like parasites and destroying it. We've thoughtlessly created gigantic pools of pollution. We're crazy enough insane enough to actually invent nuclear weapons and long periods of the detonate that bloody things.

You know, this is the lots about our behavior that we need to fix because it's right to fix it. Philosophically right, we should not behave that way, we should not behave that way to one another, we should not behave that way to plan it Earth. But to say that we need to fix our behavior because of global warming, that's an ideological argument. And that argument remains to be properly tested. Yes, global warming is occurring, but are we the cause of it or is something else, some grander scale cosmic effect involved in this?

They did understand it. The focus on the skies, if you go back into ancient times, is so strong. This notion of as above so below that we are connected to the cosmos. This is something that we're attending to forget in the modern world. Again, because we're so puffed up with pride anywhere. We can't see the sky. Yeah, like pollution. It's just like haze up there. We don't see anything. So we're actually cut off from the cosmos psychologically. And that's a mistake because we are part of this giant cosmic environment and it affects us. And one of the way it affects us is the way that comets come into the inner solar system from time to time, from deep space.

And nice that by the nature has provided us with those plots that really help us to appreciate it.

Yeah, it's weird because we have this technology that enables us to go around the whole world and even go out into outer space. But actually, in a way, it's narrowed our focus. We focus in on the technology and its progress. And we forget about the majestic cosmic and earth environment in which we and which we live, how sacred it is, how beautiful it is, how meaningful it is to all of us.

It's something with anybody doing. Get to grips with all that up there, as the ancients did. It gets your mind working and it may even have been used deliberately for that purpose in ancient times in the kind of initiation system. If you can get this, then you move on to the next level. That's the kind of idea.

And look again at the ideology. So for example, if you talk about astrology to any most mainstream scientists, they're going to laugh in your face. They're going to say pseudo science. Because they're so locked into this earth-centered perspective, which convinces them that the cosmos does have no effect on us. So how can changing patterns of the stars, which is a diical consolation is sitting behind the sun at a particular time. How can that affect us? How can when we were born affect us? I don't think we should throw that baby out with the bath water too fast. I think we're looking at an ancient science with a with astrology and I think it's worth it's been heavily diluted and prostituted in the modern world. But if you go back to the antiquity, you go back to the real origins of this. And you start finding some very interesting information coming out. There's a fantastic book by a guy called Rick Tarnas called Cosmos and Syki. And he's a real mainstream, a very major academic. And he's got into this. And he's shown that actually, yeah, astrology does have effects. So we should not deny our cosmic environment. That's the first thing we need to do to connect to it. And we shouldn't close ourselves off to avenues of inquiry for ideological reasons. It's noticeable in this field of ancient history how archaeologists throw around words like pseudo archaeologists or pseudo scientists. That's meant to be an instant dismissal, just like climate denial. Climbing denial. You call somebody a climate denial today. That's like saying, don't listen to anything that guy has to say. Never listen to it again. These are ideological tools which are being used to straight-jack it the human mind and to stop us thinking outside the box. And if there's ever a time where we needed to think outside the box, I would say that time is right now.

It's very strange that it's a very curious phenomenon.

Unless I forget, go back to Tepi.

First off, most archaeologists don't do that at all. Because they just don't do astronomy. They don't get it. Their eyes are on the ground at their feet. Right. Because astronomy is not relevant to them, they project that onto the past and imagine that it was not relevant to the past. And that's one of the big mistakes I think the archaeology makes. There are people called archaeostronomos. who are looking at the astronomy of ancient cultures and some of them have done very good work. But really, there are certain key indicators. The alignment of the site, what's it pointing at? And does that alignment change down the ages? You can sometimes establish that a particular axis of a particular temple in Egypt, for example, was shifted over a period of two or three thousand years, several times, and why? Because they were tracking the changing rising point of the star serious, which they connected in their system of ideas to the goddess ISIS. They were tracking that. rising point, which changes because of changes in the sky. I mean, the long story short, the earth wobbles on its axis. And that, since the earth is our viewing platform from which we observe the stars, changes of orientation of the earth in space do change the rising times of particular stars at particular times of year. And this was clearly tracked by the ancients. So you can say that. If you find anywhere, a monument that is perfectly aligned to true north, southeast and west, you can be absolutely sure that astronomers were involved. If it's tracking the rising sun on the spring equinox or on the winter or summer solstice, astronomers were there. They were right there when they made that monument.

26,000 years ago, 25,920 years ago. Oh, how did very long, very precise observations and the motive to make those observations. That this was important to them and they sought to pass down that importance to us. Very important work by two historians of science called Georgia or Decented Yana and hearth of undescent back in the 60s they wrote a book called Hamlet's Mill which tracks this ancient knowledge of procession and they trace it back and this was very politically incorrect at that time because Georgia or Decented Yana was the professor of the history of science at MIT. They trace it back to what they call some almost unbelievable civilization of prehistoric antiquity. that made this up. So they found the data encoded in myths and traditions all around the world. And I do go into this in magicians of the gods. They found it encoded as though the data were so important that it had to be passed down to the future. So the numbers that relate to the procession of the equinoxes and they're all based on the number 72. And multiples of that number, why? Because it takes 72 years for one degree of processional change to unfold. And that's like holding your finger up to the horizon. That one degree is just that one finger width of change on the horizon. Very precise observations are needed to do it. It's encoded in myths and traditions and it looks like somebody at some point decided this information is so important we must make sure that it stays permanently in human culture. So what we're going to do is we're going to encode it in great stories and those stories can then be passed on by storytellers who will have an ethic that they must tell the story true. It doesn't matter whether they understand the scientific information in the story or not. all that matters is that they pass it on and so in the oldest myths and traditions of mankind we have compelling evidence for scientific knowledge of the phenomenon that we call the procession of the equinoxes today.

The Great Year. Which is the full cycle. 25,920 years, a great circle in the heavens. It's very evident if you've got thousands of years to watch the sky. It's very evident at the pole. Our pole star presently is Polaris. And that's just simply because the extended north pole of the earth points most directly at that particular star in the sky. But it hasn't always pointed at Polaris, because of the wobble on the axis of the Earth. And it won't always point at Polaris in the future. The Polestar changes, but you need to observe the skies for very long periods of time, keep detailed records to get to grips with this phenomenon. Therefore, testifies to the fact. that some ancient culture was doing this in a very systematic way. It's like a ghostly fingerprint of an advanced scientific knowledge impressed upon the oldest myths and traditions of our planet.

It is accepted because we know that the Maya were an astronomical culture and it is accepted that they were building there their temples in connection to the sky. And the whole phenomenon of the Mayan calendar, which we all heard a lot about in 2012, is another factor to take into account. The Mayan calendar, in my view, is another artifact of a loss of civilization. This is that was handed down from a former people, perhaps to the All-Mex, and then to the Maya, who succeeded them. It's accepted, but the implications of it are not taken properly into account. Remember, 21 December 2012. There was all that fuss and nonsense about the end of the world happening then, and it didn't, but that's not, and the Maya never said that. They said that the end of a great cycle happened then, which would ultimately transform the world. But what it was actually locked into, and I need to pay tribute to another researcher here. His name is John Major Jenkins. John Major Jenkins has done fantastic work on the mine calendar, and decade before 2012, he was telling people, This is not talking about the end of the world on a specific day on the 21st of December 2012. There's a calculation behind this and what he showed in that calculation is that it is the position of the winter solstice sun against the background of the constellations. And what has been happening for the last 5,000 years because of precession is that the winter solstice sun 21st of December against the background of the constellations has been gradually shifting towards alignment with the center of the galaxy. And that alignment happened on the 21st of December 2012, but it's not an instant, it's a window. And that window is about 80 years wide, roughly from 1960 to 2040. That was what was focused on in the Mayan calendar. A calendar that can predict eclipses of the moon 200,000 years into the future, or 200,000 years into the past, incredible stunning accuracy, a better estimate of the length of the solar year than we used today in our modern calculations. Really? Yeah. Wow. High science encoded in that in that calendar.

We're now living in the fifth day of the world, according to the Mayan, the Mayan calendar.

So can I just jump in for a second? Because I have an image here. I don't know if we can go back. And it's this image on this side. It's a pillow. It's originally carved. I just want to I just want to make the point and I I go into this in in this book magicians of the gods that that that appears to be a diagram of the sky at the winter solstice in our epoch. This round dot above the Volches wing, the round circle represents the sun. And what we're looking at is an ancient constellation diagram, the constellations that we call Sagittarius and Scorpio. stand on either side of the galactic center of the dark rift at the heart of the Milky Way, which the Maya saw as the womb of cosmic rebirth. And it's precisely that image that is depicted there, a back-it-up chapter in verse in the book. You'll just have to take that away.

We see the scorpion below. Yeah. There's an ancient memory that there should be a scorpion in that area of the sky, and it's impressed here on this pillar.

Well, up on the right, you'll see, first of all, see the vulture with this wings outstretched and the sun over the wing. Then go right of there, you'll see a bird. That small bird is actually the head of our constellation of Scorpio, the tail of our constellation of Scorpio overlaps the scorpion underneath the pillar, but go above the small bird. And you'll see a serpent there, a snake, and beside it another bird. Those represent, we call those constellations today or futures. The serpent holder, which is the represented by the bird there, and we call the serpent constellations serpents. Other constellations are also involved. This is spooky and eerie because it appears this overwhelming evidence that the people who made go back to Tepi had a profound knowledge of procession and it appears that they deliberately sent forward into time in this time capsule. a picture of the sky in our age, and that is a staggering possibility that I invest in. I understand how it's in our age. Well, it's only at the winter solstice in our age that the sun sits over the center of the galaxy. The winter solstice in the area that the ancient Maya called the cosmic womb. There's a dark rift in the Milky Way at that point. And they saw that as the cosmic womb. So it symbolizes a moment of rebirth. And the evidence is that they'd been tracking the movement of the sun on the winter sources, which is also the end of the year and the rebirth of the new year. They'd been tracking it to the point where they could project forward and they could envisage the sky in our report today. The Maya could do that. And what I'm suggesting is that's done. Go back to Tepia as well.

No, that photograph alone. That's just the, that's just the heart of the mystery. Right. You have to get into the logic of it and compare it with the existing constellations. I'll have tried to do that too.

This is what's called high relief. Interestingly, you can see at the top of the pillar there are three that look things that look like handbags. That symbol crops up all over the world. It crops up in Mexico, it crops up in Mesopotamia, it crops up in India everywhere. And again, I think we're looking at symbolism that goes back to a very remote period, which we know is at least as old as 11th

I think those bags held their stash. Really? And I'm half serious. Because this is another issue that is ignored by the mainstream is the use of psychedelics in ancient civilizations was fundamental to the quality of those civilizations. And this is another area where in ideological denial about because the powers that be in our society don't like psychedelics they don't want ancient cultures to have liked them either and they just ignore the evidence for that.

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The weird thing is that it's all that this symbolism is all over the world.

Yeah, it's found there were, for example, we'd have to find an image, but there's the earliest image of the figure known as Quetzal Coattle in Mexico. survives from the all-mic area of the Gulf of Mexico. And it was founded a side called La Venta, along with a lot of other buried stone artefacts. And it shows a man sitting within the coils of a serpent, and that serpent has a crest on its head, because that's what Quetzal Collatel means. It means a feathered serpent. And that man is holding one of those bags, just the same as the one. The Oannis, the Wana Dappa, the originator of civilization in Sumer, ancient Sumer, according to their mythology, he's always depicted holding one of these bags as well. So I find myself wondering, are we looking at the symbolism of some ancient Brotherhood, who passed around the world, seeding civilizations, and that this was the equivalent of there. I don't know, their Masonic handshake or something. This was their badge of recognition, this bag that they carried.

It's pure speculation.

Well, especially, there is a specialized subdivision of archeology, which is called archeostronomers. The exacted solution. There's an accepted subdivision. These are archaeologists who've been trained in astronomy, but they've also been trained in the fundamental dogmas of the discipline of archaeology, which is that there can be no loss civilization. That archaeology has already told pretty much the full story of humanity, and all the weight is to fill in the details. This is the dogma of archaeology that is taken in From the moment that somebody decides to become an archaeologist, part of the training, and actually if you try and go against that dogma, as a mainstream archaeologist, you can kiss goodbye to your career. Any archaeologist who entertains the possibility of an advanced loss civilization around the world more than 12,000 years ago will have no future as an archaeologist. That right there will write him off for the rest of his career.

Well, this is the thing, you see, our story is much more complex than we've been taught. And gradually, bit by bit, the evidence is coming out of the woodwork.

And arrogant. It's absolutely foolish. It's a very foolish idea and it shuts us down to the possibilities. I mean, the universe gifted us with these giant brains and this incredible imagination and intuitive faculties as well. We're not only rational creatures, we're intuitive creatures. All of these faculties should be applied to understanding the mystery of who and what we are. And I think that's one of the mistakes of modern sciences. This just chopped out one bit, the kind of alert problem solving bit, the rational reason, the use of reason and logic. And it's chopped out all the rest, the capacity of humanity to dream, to learn information in dream, to learn true knowledge in dream was revered in the ancient world. And it's just ridiculed today. You want to insult somebody, call him a dreamer, you know. things have changed so much.

That's exactly what it's about. And again, it's ideology. It's saying that there is nothing about you with dreams. How do we know that? Ancient world felt that there was useful knowledge to be got from, from dreams not all dreams. It's in Homer actually, they speak of the Gate of Ivory and the Gate of Horn. Some dreams come through the Gate of Ivory. They're just pleasant fictions, or maybe unpleasant ones, nightmares. Ignore them. They're not important, but others are true tellings, and they come through the Gate of Horn. And this was a recognized factor in the ancient world. We've dismissed it today. It's regarded as pseudo science. It's regarded as nonsense. Again, that label is constantly applied to anything archaeologists don't like pseudo science. Right there with the label, they just dismiss everything. They always call me a pseudo scientist, which means a false scientist. And I find that bizarre because I'm not a scientist at all. I've never claimed to be a scientist. I don't want to be a scientist. I'm a writer. I'm a journalist. I synthesize material across a broad range of disciplines. So how can I be a false scientist since I've never claimed to be one? But the word is used as a blood gen or a club to beat an enemy over the head and ensure that nobody listens to what that enemy says.

There's a kind of perfect moment in human knowledge unfolding right now. We now have the knowledge of this giant cataclysm that happened 12,800 years ago, which has just not been taken into account at all up to now. And at the same time, and it's almost eerie, archaeological sites are popping up all around the world that cannot be explained by the previous model of history.

It's considered in mainstream science, because it's mainstream scientists who've presented the evidence. As I said, you've accumulated, and of course, all comes from mainstream science, published in the absolute leading scientific journals. But you're stitching it together. What nobody has done yet. I think I'm Probably the first person to do it is to take that evidence and consider its implications for the stories we tell ourselves about the origins of civilization. Very important story. Where did civilization come from? What is it? And that information has not been taken into account at all by archaeologists yet. I hope they will do so in the future. They need to play a very fast game of catch-up to catch up with the science on this and take it into account. But right now, it's not being taken into account at all. You will not find a single archaeological document which takes account of the cataclysm that happened between 12,800 to 11,600 years ago.

How is this not like it hasn't it was so glaring for something happened it raises horrible possibility for archaeology that they have been completely wrong about the origins of civilization I mean not just slightly wrong but completely wrong because they didn't take account of this. That's a horrible possibility and it's much better to just try and get rid of the data. I'm not saying that it's a conspiracy by archeology. I'm saying it's human nature. If you're invested in a system of ideas, so powerfully invested in it that your own personality is connected to. You can just can't accept it. It's really hard to accept. Almost your generation has to die off before a new generation comes that will be prepared to. We do it just with old age. I'm not threatening. No, I'm not threatening. I know you're not.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think that's the problem. Why it's not been taken down. And Randall's right, the other problem is the intense specialization of our society. That's one of the strengths of our society. There's also one of the weaknesses of our society that everybody is really good at one particular thing.

And it's all we're all into dependent upon upon one another, but there's not enough comparing notes across the disciplines. And I guess that's where my skills such as they are come in, that I've spent my whole life synthesizing data from many different fields. And that's what I'm doing here.

Exactly. And they all keep their jobs. Yes.

They should be excited about it. They should be joyous. There's something here which really could change the whole picture. But that's not the case. It's radically opposed.

I mean, it's really unfortunate, but it really does. You see, this is an area that Randall and I happened to know a lot about. What I wonder is in other areas that I don't know about is the same phenomenon at work. Right. But they're kind of knowledge filter, which is just shutting us off.

social sciences, any area of science, medicine. How things are to be done with medicine, how tumours are to be handled and dealt with. We have a dogma right now that it's chemotherapy and radiotherapy. And every other system is regarded as what pseudoscience, generally. But maybe that's a mistake. Maybe we should be considering the possibility of these alternative therapies. Maybe they're better than blasting somebody with highly radioactive material.

Sure, there is. Our personal health is important to all of us. And this is part of a part of our personal health.

There was a lot of video shot, and one of one of Randall's colleagues, Brad, who was with us, shot video along the way, and my wife Santa took photographs, and we've documented all of this very, very, very thoroughly. But it was an amazing road trip for me. It was the first time actually, I've driven a great distance across the continental United States. I've always been in this city or that city and picking up an airplane and going in there, but actually drive across this incredible majestic land. It was an enormous experience for me. It filled me with a sense of just how huge America is. I live in this tiny island, Britain. giant these open they open skies country that they call it in there it was it was a great initiation into into a beautiful part of North America and a mysterious part of North America and it was great to do it with Randall because he's been walking the walk in this in this area for for decades and he knows that landscape like the back of his hand

This is that 18,000 ton bolder sitting above one, not sure.

To float that, you need a nice bag about the size of an oil tank.

There's a place called Boulder Park. It's a tourist attraction now. You can see it.

I think I should just jump in there and say that it isn't any longer controversial that there was gigantic flooding in the Pacific Northwest and indeed across the whole range just south of the ice camp. That is accepted now. But the very idea that there was flooding at all was hotly opposed for decades. There was a great American geologist called J. Holland Brets, who was the first to document the fact that there had been colossal flooding in that area. And he lived in the 1900s and 1920s. And because he suggested that there had been a cataclysm, of course, he was exiled by his colleagues. Eventually, his data prevailed, and he was awarded the Penrose Medal, the highest award of the geological geology in America in 1976 when he was like 96 years old. He said then, he said, all my enemies are dead. So I have no one left to gloat over.

Yeah, it works like that. But what happened you see was Holland Bratz was convinced from the beginning that he was dealing and this is a very experienced field geologist that he was dealing with a single humongous flood, which had risen and fallen within perhaps two weeks. That was his evidence on the ground and he was attacked because people kept saying, where did the water come from? You know, what's the source of this water? And he said, that's not my problem. I'm showing you the clear unmistakable evidence of flooding on the ground flooding happened. Somebody else go work out where the water came from and this stuff the whole argument for the best part of 40 years until a compromise was reached and that's the word that Radal used Missula. They said that this flooding was caused by outburst floods from a glacial lake that's referred to as glacial lake Missula and because the flooding is so extensive it must about burst 80 or 90 times to cause to cause that flooding. which completely contradicts Helen Brett's view that it was a two-week flood, one single event. But the compromise was accepted that the cause of the flooding was glacial lake, Missoula. That is now going to have to be reviewed because of the comet evidence. If Helen Brett's if J. Helen Brett's had the information we have today, he would have known instantly what caused that single humongous flood. And that was the liquidizing of a huge area of the North American ice cap. instantly and the floods that followed.

Now, this is the right thing is anybody can go there. This is, this is on the line. It's, it's ours to look at. We don't go and see this. It's amazing trip to see it.

Well, I'm not taking a shot. That's huge 18,000 ton bolder has surrounded by notices, which say no trespassing. Don't stand for me. So I trespassed. I mean, the thing is made of basalt and my footstep is not going to do it any harm.

I think it is actually a private property.

So Niagara falls is a tiny, tiny little thing by comparison with this ancient fossilized waterfall, which dates back to 1,800 years. Niagara falls is the result of 12,000 or more years of work of the river. Dry falls between upper and lower Grand Cooley in Washington State is the result of two weeks of flooding.

And that river is dry flowing at what?

I don't know if anybody listening to this. If you can do so, get up to Washington State and go visit Upper and Lower Grand Kooley. It's a stunning landscape. It's a great trip to make and you can see the evidence on the ground.

There's another point I'd like to add to that Randall as to why geologists are not focused on catastrophes. Geology is a science and science in effect defined itself as being different from religious superstition. So the notion of the great flood that we find in the Bible became a very discredited notion in science. And by association with that, any suggestion of a great cataclysm in the past was seen as superstitious behavior to be shunned completely by the squeaky clean shiny new sciences who must never take that into account. So any geologist who dares to propose a cataclysmic episode is up against that right away. That his colleagues don't want to go there because they're afraid that they're going to be accused of buying into Noah's flood or whatever. That's so unfortunate. But it's true. And this is the problem. So there's catastrophism and uniformitarianism. And the profaling dogma in geology is the uniformitarian dogma, which is basically to say the way we see things in the world today, that's how it's always being. It's never been changed.

Do you think the flooding went as far south as Utah?

Which was, which is another association of this, of this impact. Yeah, picture. This huge impacts on the ice cap and enormous amount of watery material is thrown up into the, into the atmosphere, not only water, but also mud. And you get this rainout which comes down for a long period after that.

existed, I believe, an advanced civilization that is memorized in myths and traditions all around the world that is being ridiculed by archaeologists but it is insistent and the evidence keeps on coming forward.

I think it does make sense. And I think it's something, it's part of the human heritage, it's something that we all have to get to grips with. Again, this is one of the things I find encouraging about developments in the world today is that more and more people do appear to be thinking for themselves. You know, there was a time when we, we took the word of specialists, Dr. X or Professor Y said this and had to be true. And that was so actually when I wrote fingerprints of the gods in 1995, that was the first argument was the argument from authority. The authority say this cannot be so, therefore it is not so. And a lot of people just bought that. What's changed I think in the last 20 years is that that that subservience to authority has gone away. It hasn't gone away completely, but we don't trust authority anymore rightly and properly because we've been lied to by authority figures and we know they lied to us and we saw the evidence whether it's politicians or big corporations or the big religions. There's an uprising against this and an assertion of individual will and of individual intellect to inquire into the past. And I think that that's why this information now is coming at a time where it's falling on fertile ground. There will still be a lot of resistance to it. We can expect that resistance to be fierce and to go on. But things are shifting in the world. Just as our picture of the past is shifting. So our picture of who we are and what we meant to be doing here is shifting as well.

Can I make an appeal? First of all, I've ever done this. It's a little pitch. It's a little pitch. Okay, I've never asked for this before. Okay. What I'm asking to those who value and appreciate my work and feel that I'm doing something useful in the world. Please support my work by getting this book because that is the best way to put one finger up to the mainstream. Archaeology wants this book to go away. They want it to be forgotten. It will never be reviewed in any mainstream newspaper. It will never be written about. There will be no articles about it and probably no television coverage either. The only thing that can make the difference is people voting with their feet. And I'm asking that now.

Yeah, go to my website and all the links and the whole background on the book is there. I usually appreciate, deeply, appreciate the support that my readers have given me. I would be nothing without my readers. That's why every time I do an event, I sit there for two to three hours afterwards, talking to people and signing books. The readers are the most important people in my universe and they're who give me strength. Without my readers I'm literally nothing and I value and appreciate them and I'm on a journey across American now and I'm speaking in many many different cities and the whole program is up on my website on the talks and events.

Randall is a really important figure in this field, and he's very modest, and he's been standing back, and he's not been out there enough. It's time that people understood the fantastic knowledge that this man has, and the ground experience, you can't beat that.

I was surprised. I mean, I had something there, which is I'd like to say something about you, Joe. No. It's a phenomenon. I travel all around the world and I give presentations in just countries everywhere. And everywhere I go, people come up to me and they said, Joe Rogan sent us to you. We know about your work because of because of Joe Rogan. And I see that what you're doing is exploring many, many controversial areas in your show. You're in a position of power and your listeners, just as my readers are my strength. Your listeners are your strength. They put you in a position of power, but your person who's using that power for something really good. There are so many people who are powerful in the world of the media who just wasted away on trivia and nothing. You are bringing new information to people all around the world. And I can tell you, because I meet them every time I give an event, you are enormously appreciated.

fascinating guy.

John Anthony West is one of my favorite people on the planet. He's incredibly brilliant researcher John More than anybody else who opened my mind to the mysteries of ancient Egypt. fantastic work and he's a world treasure he is a world treasure he's a great great great man and I think that DVD series is is just one pedal one unfolding of the great flower of informations that that you guys are presenting and I think on another name I'll drop in there, which is Robert Boval the originator of the rock nation theory he's done so much to bring back attention to the importance of the skies in the ancient world and what it means for our understanding of our past and again his evidence also points back to this period of 12,000, 800 years ago.

Robert Shock is a key figure in this field. He's very courageous to be a mainstream academic, to be a professor of geology at Boston. It was John West who introduced Robert Shock to the notion that the sphinx might be much older, that the weathering on it. didn't fit with the picture of history. John took Robert Schock to Egypt and Robert Schock went with the data and he stuck his neck out and he's taken a lot of criticisms and tax for it, but he's a very, very important player in this field.

It's a kind of awesome moment. Yes. Suddenly the piece is falling to place. I'm going to understand. what we've forgotten.

We've got knocked on the head and we lost a lot. We lost a lot. And there is that haunting sense of incompleteness within so many of us that comes from that lost memory, I feel. There's like any amnesiac has a sense of something missing. Whole species has that.

Let's also, let's also remind that we had a close, relatively close pass with a half kilometer wide, actually a bit of a comet just over Halloween. Yeah. And the interesting thing is that NASA only found that object. on the 10th of October. And it, okay, it missed us. It passed about the distance of the moon from the Earth. That's not that far. That's not that far, but the key thing is, the key thing is that they only found it a few days before it passed. No, and how many other objects are out there?

So the one that hit Tunguska was a hundred meters. So, to tiny. Jesus Christ.

And it's so cool. That's a good analogy.

That number has changed. That reports from October 2000. We're now looking at the estimates are now that it's 100,000 potentially earth destroying objects that are on earth crossing orbits. This is an estimate. The problem is NASA has only identified a tiny fraction of what's out there. And again, I'm not saying this because I want to spread gloom and doom. I'm saying this. I'm saying this because we have the capacity to do something about it. Right. It takes good will on the part of the human race to stop wasting money on stupid stupid pursuits, particularly warfare, and to apply that resource, those resources to sweeping clean our cosmic environment, the technology already exists.

That makes people wake up. Right. We have world asteroid day right now. Some prominent figures are behind it like Brian May. I think it was one of the guitarists with Queen fire member correctly. There is publicity around so-called world asteroid day, but nobody's taking it seriously.

This is the illusion created by modern technology.

at least that would be a useful project. Yes. Is it to actually do something that could benefit and serve human race instead of multi-profile.

So there are practical suggestions that come out of all of this. This isn't just about the past, as Randall said. This is also about the future of the human race and what we do and how we live on this gorgeous planet that the universe gave us and how we pay back. for being given that opportunity.

There's about 10 different technologies to do it. What you don't really want to do is to blow it up with a nuclear right because then you get buckshot. instead of a single bullet and buckshot can do a lot of harm as well and it may even push it into a more catastrophic orbit. So you don't want to do that but what you can do for example is to change the reflectivity of one side of the asteroid or comet fragment. You can alter that effectively paint it and that affects the sun's radiation upon it and that would be enough to shift it slightly out of its course. There are a lot of techniques and suggestions or nudges that you put your finger on exactly the right word. This is another of the technologies that you just nudge these things. You just don't need to do much and you put them into a safe place instead of a dangerous place.

Read I mentioned a little space.

This thing is crazy. And is it coming from the direction of the sun, so that we can't see it?

These are the steps that we need to take. We need to grow up as a species. We need to leave our childhood behind. It's interesting to speculate what would happen if we had impacts on the scale that happened 12,800 years ago. And I'm pretty sure that it would mean if it were allowed to happen, that it would mean the end of our civilization. This civilization would go down. This is a very intensely specialized civilization. I think that just in time principle is that we have two day or three day food supply in our cities. you interrupt that and you have a kind of walking dead scenario within a week. It's that bad. This civilization is appears to be very strong, but in fact it's very fragile and it could easily fall apart. And so many of us in the Western technological world actually have no survival skills whatsoever. We don't know how to survive because we depend for our survival upon the complex network of society. Who would survive a cataclysm like that would be the hunter-gatherers. People like the hunter-gatherers of the Kalahari. in Southern Africa or the hunter gatherers of the Amazon basin. You know the meek of the world, those who are not taken into account in the world at all today, they're the ones equipped with the knowledge and the psychological resources to deal with a situation like that and to carry the human story forward. And I just want to make sure, if I can, if I can play some part in this, I just want to make sure. that the descendants of those hunter-gatherers, 10,000 years in the future are not remembering faintly and vaguely a great lost civilization, a magical civilization which had the ability to go to the moon which had the ability to one person could speak to another person on the other side of the planet, magical magical powers which was destroyed because of its own arrogance and cruelty and that loss of civilization, of course, would be us.

Just electrons. Take away the software and it'll never be read again. what what evidence would there be a thousand years from now of us if something were to happen might be some we'd know they were computed discs but the the descendants of that time would have no idea what they were and even if they did they'd have no way of accessing and a thousand years now they would deteriorate to nothing anything nothing all the plastic would be gone everything would just be a complete the complete that's why I look at

So it's clearly not an accident that the Great Pyramid encodes the dimensions of our planet. Yes. It encodes them. You measure the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid and multiply it by 43,200. and you get the equatorial circumference of the earth. Why that number though? Well, that's the key thing and I'll come to that in a second if I may. You take the height of the Great Pyramid multiply that by 43,200 and you get the polar radius of the earth. Actually Egypt told you to know this but they say it's a complete coincidence because what's the significance of the number 43,200 but actually it's a highly significant number. It's a number that is found embedded in mythology all around the world, and it is a multiple of the number 72. It's actually 672, and 72 is the heartbeat of the processional cycle. One degree of change every 72 years. So what they've actually done is they've given us the dimensions of our planet. on a scale defined by a motion of the planet itself. And that, in my view, is incredibly clever way to pass information down to the future. That way, they could be sure that any astronomically literate society could work this out. The information would be there. So, in all those dark ages, when we had no knowledge that we even lived on a planet or what its dimensions were, those dimensions were encoded. into the enduring structure of the Great Pyramid, a monument as the Arab say that time itself would fear.

How long would it take? How hard would it be? And where would it be the will?

Otherwise you have a corkscrew instead of a pyramid. That's the whole problem. No, it's an amazing device, a multifunctional device in my view, in coding knowledge, but also working on human consciousness. I've had the privilege to be alone inside the great pyramid, not surrounded by hundreds of others. And as the silence descends, this sense of intelligence seems to come out from the walls. Something is speaking to you there. And I think that partly what it was designed to do was to affect human consciousness. And in a weird way, it's still doing so. It's just welcoming people. majestic structure just being so magnificent and incredible that you just go whoa but also the sensory deprivation element you know that you're inside the so-called kings chamber which had nothing to do with any king this amazing granite geometrical room 300 feet above the ground in the heart of the great pyramid as that silence descends you feel this monument begin to speak to you it's almost like it's shy put 50 people in there and the dialogue goes away being there alone listen to the silence and it starts to speak

I should mention another site, which we've not talked about today, which is Gunung Padang in Indonesia. And again, I have a couple of chapters on this in the new book. Gunung Padang is a man named Pyramid, and it's been found about 30 about three hours drive, west of Bandung, on the island of Java. And for a long time, it was thought to be a relatively young, megalithic site. There is a megalithic site on top of what was thought to be a natural hill. But now an amazing Indonesian geologist called Danny Hillman, Natterwajaja, has been over it with his team. They've done grand penetrating radar and seismic tomography on the whole structure. And they've also put drill cores down into it and they have pulled up remnants of man-made material associated with dateable organic material that goes back 20,000 years. It goes back right into the last ice age. This is a 20,000 year old pyramid that's sitting in Indonesia and it's one of the most exciting breaking stories in archaeology. And typically, because the discovery work has been done by a geologist, Indonesian archaeologists are wanting the whole work stopped. So this is it right here? That's not good in Padang. It says, but those are good and put out. So for example, third from the right, third from the left I mean that one. Yeah. That's the, that's the known megalithic site on top of what is now understood to be a completely man-made pyramid.

Yeah, the archaeologists say, oh, we know that site. It's 2500 years old. There's nothing of interest there. We would like the resources that are being spent on this to be spent on our projects instead. And in fact, they've lobbied with the Indonesian government and the excavations have been temporarily halted. I think that it will go ahead again. What is the evidence that shows, what's the geological evidence that shows that this is... First of all, the ground penetrating radar, the picture of what is inside this shows us that it is a man-made hill, not a natural hill. Secondly, that it contains three large chambers within it. One of them, at least as large as the King's Chamber, in the Great Pyramid, huge cavities, regular and shape, which have not yet been excavated. And thirdly, that the date of this site puts us back to 20,000 years, right to the last place your maximum when Indonesia didn't look at all the way it looked today. Indonesia, 20,000 years ago, was part of a giant continent that Geologist called Sundar, Sundarland, the Sundar shelf. It wasn't a peninsula and the thousands islands of Indonesia. It was a massive landmass. And that landmass was submerged predominantly between 12,800 or 11,600 years ago. This site sits in an area of high land, which was never submerged. And it looks to me. Again, I'm speculating, because the excavation has been stopped, but it looks to me as does go backly teppy, like a time capsule. Something that takes us back to that early period. And in fact, when we're looking for a lost civilization, I think we should be looking all over the world. Plato made it clear that Atlantis wasn't just the island. It was projected its power all around the world. Indonesia is a very fruitful area for further investigation and I did a huge research trip in Indonesia. I saw megaliths that are just unaccounted for the archaeologists never been done. There's a giant megalithic culture in that island. Very cool. Some cultures on Indonesia are still making megaliths today. They're still doing it. It continues this ancient tradition.

Yeah, those that bunch of rocks is the known megalithic site, which has correctly been dated to 2,500 years ago. But when you say This is a material called columnabassault, which forms naturally, by the way, into regular patterns. The giant's causeway in Ireland is columnabassault. Columnabassault, when it forms naturally forms in vertical formations. It's a very useful building material. It can be broken up into blocks. And when you see them laid out horizontally like this, you know absolutely that human beings have been involved and that they have made this site. But what's really interesting is what's underneath what we're seeing there, what's been revealed by the grand penetrating radar and the drill course. That is really fascinating because that has not been taken into account by archaeology at all. And that's where we need to do this work. If we're going to recover our loss pass, Indonesia is one of the places we need to be doing it.

Yeah, that's what you're saying. Yeah. So by 2005, 100-year-old site. But what it appears to be the case that that site was put there because there was an ancient memory that this was a sacred site. The word, the name Gunang Padang in the Indonesian language doesn't seem to mean very much. It means mountain field. But in the Sundanese language, which is the language that is spoken around, Gunang Padang, what Gunang Padang means is mountain of enlightenment. Wow. Suggestion that it's connected to an ancient system of knowledge. It's one of many sites that are appearing around the world now that don't fit with the mainstream picture.

Um, well, I have a lot of book.

Well, yeah, that's a, that's an absolute artist's rendition, which I don't value. It's, it, that almost takes the form of misinformation. We need to be looking at the real thing. There is a that now there that painting you have your cursor just on it just got that that is an artist interpretation of what Gunung Padang would have looked like in its original 20,000 years before it became overgrown that's but that's that is the mind blower than if this 20,000 years ago this actually exists this gigantic megalithic structure that was created by human beings

I did an area that was devastated by the global floods of 12,000, 800 years ago, and that became completely different from how it was before that.

That's another Indonesian story.

It may have said that the human population went down to just 2000 individuals.

Sometimes our species hang by a thread. Sometimes we hang by a thread. That's what we want to see.

It fits up. Belching.

Yes, there've been a series of these and we as a species have kind of danced in and out of them and from time to time they have radically changed our story.

We don't use the power of memory anymore.

I've got to tell you how many times I'm Facebook or the internet. And they express as an accusation. Graham Hankock is a free-mason. Well, first off, I'm not a free-mason. I've never been a free-mason and I never will be a free-mason because I'm not a joiner. I don't join clubs. My job is to write books. And if I join a particular club, that's going to compromise my ability to do that. I have given lectures in Masonic Lodges. I've been invited to give lectures there. And I'm very interested to talk to Mason's. But, you know, I'm not a Mason myself and it is strange that there is this idea that free Masonry is connected to some kind of global conspiracy. I think it's much more complicated and much more interesting than that.

Most of them are some of them here. Yeah, Frank. The beer? Yeah. Well, three nations are largely a male drinking.

Not in the lodges, not in the lodges itself, but afterwards. Okay, I'm out.

I think what's important about it is that it's a system of ideas that definitely has very ancient origins, which we're seeing a modern manifestation of it now, but it tracks back a long way into the past. And this shows that the ideas can be passed down below the radar and can survive and can continue.

Yeah, what the fuck is that?

That's a good argument.

It actually looks like it. And we know that DMT was available in ancient Egypt. The ancient Egyptian Tree of Life is a Cationilotica, which is rich in DMT in its bark.

Well, what time flies yeah.

Long hair, man. Star. That actually looks a bit like a comb.

which couldn't be taking and resurrecting gods.

What in many different cultures a comment is the long-hand star. It looks like one certain and sometimes it's the cosmic serpent. Sometimes it's a serpent.

the Pleiades, which are part of the tourist constellation.

many traditions. They're even clearly depicted in the Hall of Bulls in Lasca in France 17,000 years ago, a depiction of the constellation of tourists with the plate is clearly marked on the shoulder of the of the bulls. So anybody who argues that there was no ancient knowledge of the zodiacal constellations, go to Lasco and you'll realize there was.

There's many depictions of the ancient Egyptian figure holding some kind of pipe, and now that we know that occasion in Lodica is a DMT-rich tree, and that ancient Egyptians certainly had the chemical knowledge to extract the DMT from that bark. The very word chemistry actually comes from the name of ancient Egypt, which was Kimit. the black land, that's where we get the word chemistry from. We can be pretty sure what they were smoking. There is a particular scene, by the way, where we see another visionary agent, the detourer plant. Rays in the form of detourer flowers are descending into the brow, into the third eye of the initiate, in that image. The imagery is all there. You just have to dig it out and look for it. And look for it with eyes that are willing to see. That's the crucial thing.

I will agriculture or I'll fill you in on that someday. These were assembled royalty in ancient Egypt. Oh, you find them all over the Temple of Conact, for example.

So all of this mystery surrounds us and all of it takes us back to a time that we've forgotten. And we need to know about that time. We need to recover our memory. The human species is in a kind of broken state right now. psychologically you can see it in the world there's this my asthma of hatred and fear and suspicion that are just enveloping the whole world and we are being divided artificially from one another when truly we are all brothers and sisters and we need to recover that knowledge if we're to move forward to the future and on that note I also want to thank you for another thing Joe which is for smoking me up last September

I had three years of abstinence from marijuana. And that abstinence ended when we sat down for our last chat September 2014.

No, it's not the problem. What's happened is I've completely changed my relationship to that beautiful and magical hurt. It's not a dependent relationship anymore. It's not an obsessional relationship. If I have it, I enjoy it. If I don't have it, I enjoy my life anyway. That's beautiful.

Always the case with addiction. It's the pain in the individual. That's the source of it, not the substance.

It's an amazing place to regroup and thank you for introducing me to that as well.

crash, right? And I had this fantastic, fantastic experience. And I have to say, I'm really thinking about putting one of those in my house. Do it. Everybody should, if you, I mean, God, man, you know, and as you say with some animals, that's the way to, that's the way it is the way to enjoy the experience to the maximum, to get the maximum benefit out of the experience.

Exactly. I'm really encouraged by what's happening in America that we are seeing the legalization of cannabis that the American people state by state are just putting their finger up to the federal authority and saying we are adults we have a right to decide what we do with our own bodies and our own consciousness and there is that air of freedom now in in Washington state in Oregon up there in Alaska in Colorado and and that's so this is part of my book tour that I'm really looking forward to when I go present an event in Seattle, which I'll do in early December and in Portland, Oregon and in Denver and in Boulder.

Let's face it. Mary one is a far superior substance to a car.

Very positive story. Real estate's gone up and what is Colorado is proving to the world is that the emperor of the war on drugs wears no clothes. The war on drugs is bullshit from beginning to end and it's a grotesque abuse of the right of adults to make decisions about their own bodies and their own consciousness. So right on with Colorado and the American people who are making this happen only in America could this breakthrough take place. It's true that America has a state entity. has been a dark force behind the war on drugs, but the American people state by state are unraveling that horror and replacing it with something new. This could never happen in Britain. I mean, we have counties in Britain like Yorkshire or Northumberland. I can't in this situation ever where Yorkshire would make marijuana legal when London says no, but in America you can do it. And this is going to change the world. It's not because of marijuana itself. That's not the point. It's not about getting high. It's about respecting the right of adults to make decisions about their own bodies, their own health and their own consciousness. That is a fundamental human right and we're beginning to realize that that's exactly what's been taken away from us by the war on drugs.

I think this is an interesting point here. which is that part of the technological world is to regard nature as matter as dead. You know that there's just this dead where the only consciousness on the planet in the universe and they refuse to consider the possibility that nature may be highly conscious and highly intelligent, that there may be intelligence in nature and it seems to me what the psychedelics are our nature's way of speaking to us when we've closed our minds and shut ourselves down, when we've take in the soul out of the universe and just turn it into a huge machine the psychedelics are coming back and saying hang on you monkeys don't know everything listen to us we got something to teach and with that we just ran through three hours yeah