Transcript for #822 - Chael Sonnen

Well, I drink it every day and I like coffee, but I've got a doctor a little bit, you know, I've got coffee mates and the hazelnuts. I've got to do all that stuff. Do you just just stevia? No, but man.

Are they a sponsor? Are we doing a plug right now?

So if I don't like it, I could say, yeah, I don't know about the same effects.

So here's my theory on coffee and I think this is true if if coffee wasn't around and I discovered it right and I sat you and Jamie down and I slid a couple across the table and go try this guys. I want I want 50 thousand dollars from both of them to build this coffee and participate this. You go, you're out of your mind. You want to give me a dollar. Like, no, no, not only not only am I going to sell this for a profit, I'm going to put sprinkles in it. I'm going to put in a fancy cup. I'm going to, I'm going to mix whipped cream on top and sell it at 300% profit. You could shave just out.

But um, so we're going this how you start your show. I like this. No big introduction. You just turn it on. It's not necessary.

So whatever we talk about today, is there, is there, I don't know, it's not going to take it on.

I, uh, you know, we're all trying to figure out if they're going to sell selling. Yeah. Right. And I'm on the other side of the fence from a lot of the reports. I'm going to God. I hope so. What a cool thing. I mean, they can sell the work they put in the risk they built this industry in that the ultimate thing you want to do with the business day one when you sit down to start a business. You want to create something so cool. Somebody else wants to buy it. Right. So I'm on the other side of the fence. All these reports were coming out like this was going to be earth shattering news. I'm, well, this is going to be great. This is, you know, if you like them, if they've done something for you in your cheer and form, then cheer that this goes through, particularly if you retain Dana, and that was the other part of the report was that Dana was going to stay on well, that's relevant. There's not another, there's not another guy alive that can run that. And that's not some nice statement to Damon. Dana, it's just a truth. Like you can't go to a library and check out a book on fight promotion. You can't go to any college and major and fight promotion. You either know what or you don't.

Yeah, you would. And I know what you mean. One AM's a good time to get a hold of them. I wasn't Brazil. He called and woke me up. I was doing the ultimate fighter. He woke me up. It's 4 AM. And I grabbed the phone and he was talking business right away. And I just said, Dane, I got, I'm not here right. Whatever I agree to right now, I get a pass. Because if you give him your word, it's that's it, right? Right. Whatever I agree to does not, I'm out of it. It's 4 AM. And he goes, oh, man, it's 4 AM. And I said, yeah, and he goes, dude, I thought it was only two. I'm really sorry for calling. But he was serious, you know, he was serious. And so it's like, okay, I get it. Man, if you're working, I'm in it was the office line. It wasn't his cell line. He was at the office. And I'm going, okay, well, look, if you're gonna work, then that's good for him.

Yeah, that's gotta be 10. They're not that far ahead where they, they're the four or six hours. I was in São Paulo. Yeah. So it was still, you know, he's in there grinding.

Yeah, and to understand you, thank you for saying it, but it's also relevant to understand how big MMA is over there. You get away with that here, and there's going to be some pockets that know exactly who you are, but It's going to be just that pockets in Brazil. It's the number two sport behind soccer. Everybody knows. And I had, uh, I had armed security. We went everywhere and bulletproof cars. And, uh, and one night, um, the guns came out. And whatever bravado you think you have or you think you will have. When the guns come out, you find out it's, it's not true. You're scared.

This is an actual move. There's a name for this, and it's very common to Brazil, but we were going in traffic, and a guy cutting front of us, and then what they'd like to do is cutting front of you, slow down, and then you get boxed in, they jump out in Robia. So when the guy swirled up, we're in three lanes traffic, there's nobody else on the road. So when the guy cutting front of us, security knew where I was going on, they pulled their gun out. My wife was in the back, and she was sleeping. She was laying down, she had her feet across me, and I woke her up, and I said, And there was an exit right up and the guy swirved over as quick as he cut in front of us took the exit was gone nothing happened at all. But in that moment, you find out when the guns come out, whatever macho this you think you're going to have in that situation you don't have.

I'm just saying yeah, and I don't think it had they had no way to know I was in the car. I mean I think they were just getting ready at least the security thought they were just getting ready to rob us, you know, and hadn't but yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, that's true. You know, that's just true. It's like he can no one here take a joke. But he ended up being a great time. It ended up being a really great time. The ultimate fighter just is in general. I had the opportunity to have him, but you build life-long relationships. You know, you stay friends with those guys. You watch them being vulnerable. You watch them putting their whole life everything into it. These get leave in their families. The first ultimate fighter I did. We had two holidays. I'm counting how a win is when I rose. It isn't a holiday. But if you have kids, that's a big day. This guy's leave their kids. They don't get a seam dress up. And then we had Thanksgiving. They don't even get a call home. One guy had the birth of his first child. He did not get to call and check on his wife. I mean, it's a big deal what goes on. And they're very strict. I don't know why they are, Joe. I realize that for reality TV, that turmoil is a build something. But I'm kind of looking at going, you know what, you know, let's do this little nine to five deal. Send them home, give them their cell phones. Let these guys just be regular guys.

That's a funny word. Fuck, raise one on their door. It's a great word.

You're gonna, you're gonna side with Vandal. Here's what happened. I was the first guy ever tested in this random out of competition testing. So none of us knew what it was. And you have to take that time to perspective because now guys understand, look, you get a knock on the door. You must, you must comply. But I was the first one ever, that we'd never heard of this. A guy shows up. Vandal A was to be the second one tested, but didn't, didn't test. In hindsight, I shouldn't have tested. I'm not even sure they were within their rights. So in this is relevant. They show up the guy is no ID. Absolutely no identification of who he is. I think that's a problem to start with. Then, he then wants to take me into a back room, which ended up being a janitor's clause, not sanitary, a back room at the MGM grand. He takes me in there where I must derope and present to him my penis, because he watches, you know, that's a very private thing.

Yeah, and if there's, look, and they need to, I understand now, and I think a lot more of us do, too, that you know, you have to get naked and do this, you got wisdom, you got all these weird things going on. at that time though that's a weird thing that we're in the back of the the mgm grand in a dirty closet and i'm presenting to a stranger who refuses not only doesn't offer id refused to give id and i try to take a picture of the son of a bitch and he told me i could not do that Why I backed it down and didn't take I don't know. I just accepted his authority, but it hasn't called me. Yeah, exactly. I should have, but I was caught off guard. This had never been done before and I'm kind of just going along, but I am caught off guard by this. He then wants to stick a needle into your vein and draw blood. I'm in a back, unsanitary room. Anything I've ever learned in school. You don't do things with intervideous needles. You don't this guy has no idea he's not in a lab coat doesn't look the part at all. So now I presented myself naked to him and now he's got a needle in my vein and I'm signing paper work that I haven't had time to read. So when he goes to now understand I speak English, we at least speak the same language, also taken to consideration that kind of guy in fairness, that perfectly nice guy trying to feed his family, but in fairness, what kind of person says I want to go around and collect people's pee? interesting kind of guy. So I'm with I'm with an interesting character to start with. Now I'm making now he's poking me with needles in a dirty back room at the MGM grant. He leaves there and goes to test Vandalay. Well, when you take everything I said into consideration, nobody knew about random testing, nobody knew about his son, nobody knew anything about the stand out of competition. So for Vandalay to go, hey, I don't know who you are. You're not presenting ID. I don't fully understand you. That's fair. Yeah. And Vanilly talked to him and said, you want me to sign a contract, get my attorney on the phone, show me what this thing says. You know, he's kind of going through the, and the way the story was told is that Vanilly just turned and ran. Well, that wasn't true. He stood his ground and talked to this guy for a while. He said, get on the phone with an attorney, prove to me who you are. He did all of these things. And then finally said, look, I got to get to a press conference. I'm leaving. Got in his car and drove right to the mgm for the press conference i didn't have this back story at the press conference but that's what vandily did so when the story came out that he turned and bolted out the back that's not true he stood and talked to the guy tried to reason with him vandily's never told calmly his side of the story and that's his side and that makes a lot of sense even in today's standards that makes sense but back then when no one knew that drug testers could be showing up and once they showed up that you needed to present yourself naked that you needed to accept uh... you know that they were going to draw blood Yeah, man, Vanilly had the right to say. No, call my attorney. I don't know what's going on here. And the guy wouldn't show ID. That's relevant.

And they banned him for life.

He all he's done is yell, and I've always thought, no, wait, Vanilly, timeout, you've actually got a really good side here. Yeah. Come and tell it. Now under today's standards, it's a little bit different.

Exactly. And then, and won't let you, won't let, won't document who he is, won't let you just take a simple picture of him.

It feels like that can be disputed. And to your point, you now do sign a contract and you agreed to go into this pool, but back then, we did not. You know, I was, I was the first guy of Analy was the second guy. We both ended up with suspensions. But it was different. It's like, well, hey, wait, if you're going to do this, you got to tell us or you got to tell me right on the spot, but you've got to at least prove who you are. And I would imagine the women must have women testers come out to watch them, but I don't know that for sure. You know, you're just thinking about these TSA pat downs and the women fill in violator. We haven't heard any women say that yet. But at some point, you know, I just think there's a fine line there. They might have to be a little bit careful.

Yeah, it was really weird. And you know, trying to explain it to Vandalay on the set, what was a battle, too. And Vandalay walked out on the very first day. He demanded an apology. He said, yeah, he comes in front of everybody. But cameras are rolling. We're about to pick teams. So it's got all the guys there. And his way of taking the moral high ground was to demand I apologize. And if I don't, then he quits. As a vandal, why did you put yourself in that position? I'm not going to apologize, but why would you say you're going to quit? Now you have to quit. Now you can walk out. So he does. When I call his butt, he walks off the set. Camera stop everything. They put us in the back and I'm telling the producers, I'm not going to come out in a college at Call Vitor. Vitor will come out and do it. We'll have Vitor in a plane. That's how we're going to solve this now. We can't call Vitor. uh... you know we got we got to work this out with handle a could you please a pledge i said look i want to show to go forward but this is the story line the story line is the bad guy has come to Brazil vandalay gets to be the white knight on the horse let's continue the script so i had to talk to vandalay in a private room and i'd explain that to him like vandalay i get what you're doing here and you're trying to be the good guy but guess what you are Just let me go do what I do. Okay, you will come off as the night and shining armor. And I'm okay with that. You're not okay being the bag. I am. You go do you. Let me do me the scripts already out there. Okay. That's why we have this job. And I couldn't reason with him, Joe. He would not understand it.

Well, he's saying. Oh, you know, I, you know, on and on and on. And, you know, I said, I, and I'm so proud of you and so Brazil. Yeah, he was doing that. I was breaking it down and he's telling me how I'm doing everything wrong. And, and, and my sportsmanship's off and, and my promotions, but, and I said, Vanily, stop. I said, George St. Pierre left. Brock Lesnarla, I'm the guy. I'm the highest pay guy in the UFC right now. I'm not the guy you tell how to promote. I'm the guy you cop and I was just trying to level with him. I'm the guy you copy. That's the reason that that all these things are happening. And he agreed with me on that. He goes, I understand that, but I don't like how you did that. I don't like I said great. Then here's what we're going to do. We're going to do this show. Okay. I'm going to continue to be the bad guy. And then we're going to fight. And if you're so sure you're going to, I mean, this, this is your moment. He was raining on me for the Anderson thing. And I said, Italy, did you see how that fight worked out? Okay. I took my punishment, man. I had to eat it all. It's an embarrassing thing. But I did it. That's my payback for that. You and I are in a separate deal. You're trying to insert yourself in an Anderson fight. Anderson already took care of that matter. Okay. He handled his button. But now you've got to handle yours. And it was just a weird thing and we just couldn't, we just couldn't come around.

And I know this, if I come into your country by myself and not speaking the language and you team up, you gang, you team up on me, I become vulnerable. If they see me as vulnerable, they're going to like me. I don't want to be like you're ruining everything. And I knew if we if push came to shove, they're going to take Vandalase side. I'm going to come in short, but in the world of public opinion, I'm going to come out on top, which I've worked very hard that I don't want to be on that side. That's not where I'm trying to be. I'm down there, okay, and I'm all by myself, which means I'm ruling that part of the market. And I was pleading with him when he was trying to get in the street fight. I remember even saying to him, please stop. Like, man, look, please, I don't want to do this. Let's get a date. Let's save it for the Octagon.

He saw that his weakness and as soon as he saw the weakness, he started picking on me. He's like, man, if you pick on me, I become likable. I don't want that. That's what this is all about. Okay, I'm down there. You guys beat down here, okay? I'll be the nerd sitting at the end of the pool by himself, but that's still my end of the pool.

When one fight ends the marketing for the next fight begins right then, right that people paying attention to most. And I hear people tell you all the, hey, who do you want to fight next? And you're giving them an opportunity where you're softballing them right down the middle. And they say anybody and their message, what they want to be relayed is, I'm not a bully. I'll take on anybody. I'll take on all comers. I don't care. I get that. But that's not what people are hearing. If you say you don't care, how can you expect anybody else to? If you tell the whole world, I don't care who I'm fighting. Well, then how in the hell can a fan care? How can they care about you? You've got to care. Whether it's a personal thing, whether it's a career move, whether it's a title, whatever it is, you have to care and there has to be an answer. If you don't care, I don't care. Nobody's ever gotten a job, Joe, by telling the guy interviewing him. I don't care. Well, then I can't hire you. I just can't hire you.

Now, there's a mention of when when I try to get in your podcast today. If you just say, hey, are you free on Monday and I go, I don't care. You go, well, then I'll just call somebody else, jail. I need a guy in the studio that wants to be here. What's your, you do? I want to be here.

I think that's fair. Yeah and I've seen some guys do it and I've been Rothwell comes to mind. Rothwell has some pocketed and even an awkwardness or something to see there. It's not a total miss. It does come across as pocket inscripted and my only advice to Rothwell is if you have a pocketed statement and you're not ready for the follow-up question drop the mic and walk away hit your bit and exit stage left and uh yes it's very it's very hard to say something you want to say and when the follow-up question comes you go back into being yourself that's very hard you've got you look if you take a character you finish the character right and tell it's done and if you're stuck walk away

It's perfect. Yeah, it was great. It was perfect. Wait, so Dan, let's stay on Daniel Daniel this week was in one of the it was a very weird spot. So Daniel comes in. He's not just the good guy of MMA Joe. He's the great guy. Daniel never will somebody meet that guy face to face. What a jerk. Never.

That's my point, but everybody hates him. You then have John Jones who is a real life heal that wants to be loved. And for some reason, the crowd used to be against him. And now they find out he's really find out who he is. They love it. They're in.

Daniel Corme was at a press conference with Jones and Jones says I've been sober for three months and the crowd goes crazy. They then should ship the camera over to Daniel the whole crowd starts. We didn't even say anything. They all start booming. Daniel takes a mic and goes, you guys were cheering that he's been sober for 90 days. I've been sober for 36 years. They boom again. They hated it. So Daniel gets put this weird spot. He brings that momentum into this fight. He then becomes vulnerable. His hearts out there. He shows the world that he takes the high road. He says, I think that John Jones made a mistake. I've made mistakes before he starts telling these personal stories. His hearts are he's in tears. Everybody loves him. All of a sudden he goes into the fight. Anderson boom. People love the appreciation. He stepped up. Great middle way. All these different things. Daniel gets beat or rather beats him, crowd booze, and the Daniel tries to address the audience. Explaining himself. It's like, Daniel, a couple of rules and politics. First off, you steer into a problem. If a crowd wants to boo, you don't ever ask them for their approval. You take the mic, you hold your bell to pie, you thank them all. for the percentage of their ticket sales that you got, you tell them to shove their opinion up their ass and you walk away. If you're explaining, you're losing. Do not explain yourself. Do not say I had to do what I had to do. There's such a, I'm tired of the misrepresentations representations and fighting. It comes all the way from the top. We hear that the fans want two guys that are going to go out there and bang. Well, that's not true. The biggest draw on the history of the sports George St. Pierre. He never went out there and banged with anybody. We believe he finishes. It is a very handsome man. He's very marketable. I will concede that. But the bottom line is that's not necessarily what people want. The exact same game plan that Kormie did is is what Lesner did five minutes later and everybody loved it. That's not what it's about. What they decided they want to see Anderson win. They weren't upset that they were on the ground. They were upset they weren't on their feet because they knew that were Anderson could knock him out and they decided they were going to cheer for Anderson. Corbyn should have just told him to shove it up their ass and they'd be stuck.

But he wants to be liked.

Nobody's more angry about that than you. John Jones is not as frustrated about that loss as you are.

I think that's fair. Yeah, you're right. America does love success. Fans are front runners. They've got the right to be. But yeah, historically, that is how it worked. And when you talk about Rumble Johnson and John Jones, man, we got to get that match up.

Yeah, I agree. And you know, when you bring up Rumble, Rashad, who trained with both John Jones and Rumble says Rumble beats him. Now, rumble only does have one problem. He is a front runner. He does fade a little bit. But that's a big storm that he brings. You know, RDA fights that way. He start a man to noon as fights that way. Yeah. Her own teammates were saying, look, if she gets in the second, third round, I don't know about that. But she's going to bring a storm in that first round. Oh, did she? And I don't think Misha can survive. But I talked to Dustin Port. And he trains with a man. And he said that. He goes, well, if he gets in the later round, she, you know, her percentage goes down. He said, but I think she's going to come out. She's going to put her foot on the gas empty the tank. And the first, I don't think Misha's going to be around.

So, so let's back up. I made a note here on that John Jones thing. Did you follow the whole John Jones drama and the most recent one? The only post drama, yeah, was that he had a press conference the next day. Did, did you follow that press conference at all?

All right. I went to that press conference and there was a couple of takeaways and this is all speculative, but this doesn't make John innocent at all. Well, John's guilty. They've got the sample, it's guilty, but his actions were not that of a guilty man. Historically, guilty guys go bare their head in the sand. They try to outrun this thing. They get with their legal teams. They show up at the hearing. They hope for the worst, uh, for the best. They get the worst and they deal with it. John faced the music 12 hours later. He came through the hotel. His whole life's pulled apart right now. I imagine he would sleep that night. He comes to the hotel with the fans. He comes into the media. PR101 says you read a script that was written for you and you exit the stage. Instead, he read no script. He took every question asked of him. And that's just not what a guilty guy does. Now I understand that he's guilty in terms of who sought it. But what we care about is intent. Was he trying to get over on somebody? Was he trying to hide something? His actions would represent that he did it. But here is the problem with the press conference, Joe. When you hold the press conference, You have one goal in mind, which is to win over the media and that they say nice things about you before you do go home and bury your head in the sand. Secondly, you want to break something. You want to get something out there to get ahead of the story. That's the whole reason you show up at these things. The only car that he had to play is what did you test positive for? That was the only thing we didn't know and they refused to reveal it. So that was a little bit weird. And where I was sitting, because I've been in John Spott. And here was the thing that happened with me. We're talking about John, this whole thing's going on with John based on a test that took place on June 16th. The reason that relevant, when I went through my thing, he tested positive for some estrogen blockers. Those don't really have anything to do with anything. They don't help you. They're silly.

Yeah, it tested positive for two estrogen.

There you go. I'm revealing it.

Boom. It's out there, right? And that what we're doing here aren't we creating some news? It's a big news day. But listen, but here's irrelevant. And let me tie myself into this. When I went through this show, I had something silly in there. In fact, I had an estrogen block. I had something silly in there. And everybody forget I was, I was going to be suspended, but Fox, I was fine. Everybody looked to, okay, you know, we changed the rules and the test or everything was fine. But what I had to live with, what only I knew? There was another test out there, but the results hadn't come back yet. And I didn't know what that test was going to show. I know what it could have shown. I know what it should have shown, but I know what the other test could have been showed of as well. So you're sitting there hoping how good is this damn test? That's all you're thinking about.

You're on stage, and I'm blowing you up. You're like, hey, man, I'm doing a show. Can I call you tomorrow tonight? I will stay a capital letters to night. I need to hear from you tonight.

Turns out it's a pretty good test. Turns out it's not like the old 1-800 requested tests that cost $99. Okay, there's a reason this test is 40 plus grand. But the thing that I'm wondering, does John have another test out there? And if he does it, doesn't mean it's going to come back. But that was the same spot I was in. There was a shoe that could drop for me. It did for him. Is there another test out there? And if there's not, then who saw does got some explaining to do? If you're telling me a guy that's got a track record, the tested positive for cocaine going to fight in the biggest fight of his career. And the last time you tested him was one month before the bout, then who saw does got some explaining to do. But there's more to the story. Now, what do we hear it? Does he pass? Is he in the spot? I don't know. But that's the piece that's still missing.

All in an estrogen blocker will do if you up your testosterone, then your estrogen just naturally ups and guys don't want estrogen. So if you're a guy, you take a blocker that can block that, bring it to you won't get, you know, the stance moves. I'm trying to think that the worst guy, Gasto, I can't even if I came from Mitch Tetz is all that comes to mind. I can't think of it.

And anyway, it can stop some of those things. So that's the speculation. The reason that that's on the list is they find that that's the way they can catch you after the fact. Hey, if we missed you doing the cycle, we can catch you here.

That's right. Yeah. I tested positive for an estrogen blocker and it was that exact same thing. They banned testosterone. I went on something called HCG, so return your testies back on and then you have to clone a fein, which is by definition an estrogen blocker for that same thing, but can also help. get your body going back on testosterone. So they're banned. John's got a problem. Again, this comes back to the press conference. He said, I have not taken anything new that I have not taken my entire career. So somebody gave him a follow-up question. He quickly realized what he just said. And he goes, I do have a new supplement company. I have taken some new supplements. So he realized he put himself in one point. He need to get out of it. The supplement company then, who dropped him immediately, came out with the press release said, do not put this on us. We don't have anything to do with that and we'll turn over any samples you want. So that's the downside to holding the press conference is if there's anything the commission hates. It's when somebody isn't honest with them. Well, if there's anything who saw the hate, and it's what Lance Armstrong found out, it's when you deny the scientific accuracy of their test. That's the risk with holding a press conference. That's why most legal teams will tell you, go home, be quiet, rewrite the right to remain silent, execute that, show up at your hearing date, get sworn in, say your piece, and then go on about your life.

I fully agree in historically I could bring up athletes where that is true where they go sober where they go straightener when they find God whatever these things are and they change something that yeah the domino start to fall the problem is when you got a wild man like John he's in a box and it's a loose box and he's having some fights but usually that continues to escalate so he kind of needs to keep himself right in that framework and the bad news is it usually just keeps get it just usually just keeps pushing so that's a very important that becomes a problem that's a very important point where people escalate things like billionaires want more billions right they want islands now they want fucking jets and spaceships and and with a pro athlete or

Most of both don't drive. I mean, that was his biggest problem was getting behind the wheel and front of everything else he was doing. It's like, John, you got to get, you got to get a chauffeur, you got to get Uber, you got to take a taxi, don't get behind the wheel. That was the most of his problems. You had some other ones, but that was the most of it. If you just took him out of the driver's seat, a lot of this doesn't exist.

He, I agree. So you go back to that over and say, uh, prove fight. Single worst performances of a performance of John's career. Single worst by light years. Now you break it down a little further. He won the grappling. He won the striking. He won every round. He didn't, he didn't back off. He didn't get tired. He was stronger. And that was on a bad day.

I would agree about events. I think your assessment is fair and I think his stock went up that night, but when I'm watching John I'm going, okay, this isn't the this is a rusty John this is slower that outputs a little bit down. The bottom line is on a bad day. He left with a world championship on a bet. That's how good he is. The other side of John, you know, when you're talking about the car wrecks or when we're talking about the cocaine or what he's going through now. And again, this was my takeaway from the press conference. The biggest takeaway was John won't own anything. And it's like, John, at some point, you can't do the routine about, I don't know why God put me in this spot. I don't know why God put me in the spot. Everything happens for a reason. I'm going to come out better on the other side. It's like, John, you're acting like you got diagnosed with diabetes or cancer or something. You're the victim. You were in a hit and run. You did the hitting and you did the running. That was your fault. On the cocaine thing, you didn't say somebody slipped me a Mickey. You said I said a party in Brazil. I rolled up 100 and went down to the tip. That was your fault. Now you're in a jam here for two bands substance and you're still not taking response and you think God's put you in this spot. It's just that you put yourself in this spot and at some point if you're the baddest doing the world and you are, you got to man up on these things. You got to man up and go, hey, I'm guilty and how exactly it happened. I'm going to try to figure that out. But I'm definitely guilty, who thought it was a good job by trust those labs. Let's get to the bottom of it.

Stop right there. But no more victim. No more victim room.

There it is. There it is.

Excuse me. None that I've ever heard of. And again,

I've never heard that. Now, that could be true. I think of myself as kind of an expert in this field from being on the wrong side, but, you know, we don't pull sides of it. I've never heard of that. I can't imagine why supplement company would do that. This supplement company wasn't like 10 means as company or yoL Ramirez. They came out with a press released instantly. So do not put this on us. Let us know what you need from us. We'll drop it off at the lab ourselves.

No, and then what exactly have they gotten for me that that's still coming out. But that was one of the things again to go back to the press conference. And I think I think John did more good than he did. I think it was kind of a good thing that he came out. He showed courage. He didn't read scripting. That's what all the questions. But the bad was he didn't tell us what he tested positive for. And the bad news, now he stuck with speculation. If he would have come out and told us exactly what it was, you and I would have to gas and go to the internet and speculate and rumors is what you don't need.

I don't know why he held that with understanding who saw us going to tell us if you don't tell us who saw it.

when they're going to charge them and they are within the old that I'm going for for basically one year late at the local information you'll take a lot of it's medical information I suppose you're right with him but this doesn't fall under that the commission's going to bring charges against him for certain supplements are going to bring him in require that he's there They're going to have to address it. Then he's going to say his piece. Look, I took this. I didn't think I could cut or I don't know anything about it. That's that's a route guys go as well. But the bottom line is it's going to come out. I thought he had a good opportunity to tell us what it was and perhaps give a guess as to how it got in his system. If he's going to take that path, the outright denial path. That's not a great one historically. But some guys taken it. That's the route he's going to go to of outright denial. Tell us what it is.

Oh, that is second. Guys, do it. It's taken. Testogen.

It kind of looks like Greg Jackson's brother a little bit, doesn't he?

I was suspect he has something to do with the company or his father does. That's generally how these things work out.

And is this the company of John's?

Very well, and he had three, he had three test positive for three things. So maybe that knocks one off the list. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. There is some confusion there. Yeah.

I mean, that story's BS, but I hear what you're saying. There is confusion in there. Tim means was innocent.

Yeah, and you'll well, Romero. They ruled that. That's not happening.

And Frank Meere appeared. That's a weird one, too, even their own science. They're confused on Frank Meere's because his metabolites were so low where they're going, well, look, you passed here, you passed here, but you did it here for your metabolites to be this low. You would have had to have taken it six weeks before, but we tested you there. They're even confused on their science there. They've admitted that. They've gone out. This shows up. We got to do something with it. We don't we don't understand how you had this reading and Frank's like I'll tell you everything I did I'll tell you everything I ate I don't I don't know how this works you give me the answer and they they're even confused themselves going at this shouldn't be it is we got to deal with that but it just is supplements it tests the things that he's Frank hadn't taken any supplements. I was the other thing. He said he fought in some some different country. He goes look and everybody made fun of him for this, but he was just being honest. He said. Yeah, and he knows how he said he now that the headlines made him look bad. But Frank was just being kidding. He goes look the only thing I've done different. I was in this different country. I ate some kangaroo meat for the first time. Everyone teased him, but he's going, this is what he saw to ask me. They asked me if you'd done anything different.

Right. So Frank offering them that was just, you know, he got teased for it, but he was just being candid.

Yeah, and Frank's always been an open guy. He was on testosterone. He wasn't one of the guys that tried to hide it like the other guys. He went and asked for the tea. I mean, Frank's a pretty straight up guy. He's an open book. And it's not all great stuff. I mean, he'll tell you this, he'll tell you.

Yeah. When Frank says I didn't, I believe him.

Yeah, that's right. And they do put him in a tough spot too. And I would be curious if this was ever tested in a court because they put him in an interesting spot where a guy gets advice from his doctor, which you're supposed to listen to. And he has to cross reference that advice. with an athletic commission. And you're going, well, time out of second. We're not saying about illegal drugs here. We're talking about legal medicine, FDA approved medicine that I'm taking appropriately and in conjunction with my physician. And you're telling me I can't take it. And that even happens with common cold flu. Yeah. Add they'll be in bit. Some of these silly things in over Anderson, so he popped for that steroid. But two of the things he popped for were over the counter. One of them is a sleep aide that sits on the shelf next to Nyqua. None of us knew was banned until He got flagged for, well, scratch our headgun.

That's a myth. So everybody likes to go back to it. Go, this doesn't help my performance. That's, it's not a performance test. It's not a steroids test. It's not a drugs test. It's a banned substance test. And that's where they go way out of bounds sometimes. I mean, I think back to the, the, the Chinese gymnast where they stripped her metal in 2004 and kicked her out of the Olympics forever because she had a billionth of a trace of IB profan, which has a street name of That's a good thing. To take a legal thing that you found that can help you. Why would you take anything that could hurt you? That was another thing that John came out. He was so adamant that I took nothing to help my performance. I'm going, John, I don't know why that's the high can and of bad things you don't want to be associated with. You took Coke, which is a felony and can kill you. But now you're standing on the moral high ground that you didn't take anything that could help you. That's just weird.

Why would you take anything? It's a supplement or anything else. Why would you take it if you did it have a reasonable expectation that it helped your performance? Because if you're not taking it for that, then you're taking it for the opposite. It has to be one of the two.

But what I'm saying if you're trying to follow the scope of a medicine, like an estrogen block would be or testosterone. Those are classified as medicine and then maybe you can call it drugs all day. That's medicine under the FDA. You can't become a medicine unless you can reasonably prove that it's going to help a patient. You can't be a doctor, give somebody something that brings them down and makes them worse. That's malpractice.

He denied that it would help his performance. Like, well, of course, you took it to make you feel that whatever. I'm drinking coffee right now for the caffeine. Right. That's just what it is.

Right. Well, yes, that's true. That is true, but I just think that's a ridiculous one, too. They say that you'd have to be tested your bodies to all these different things, but they say that two cups of coffee in a 15 minute period will make you test hot. Now, you'll only test hot for about 15 minutes because caffeine wears off so fast, but yes, if somebody was to come in right now, I got three different coffees in front of me. I could be above the limit on that. I'm sitting here going, well, I'm getting jazzed up to do a podcast. I'm not sure that that I'm not sure that that relates, but the rules are the rules. I'd be cheating.

That's right. And there there is two different sets of standards there. And caffeine's got to be if you're out of competition, you must be fine. Advils and you know, we talked about Advils. There is some that are only banned in competition. They're allowed out of competition. And then there's some no-nose forever. But that's where it starts to get confusing. And then the way they've handled it is to go, it's on the athlete. He's like, well, okay, fair enough. But athletes, particularly fighters are the lowest form of society. You're the government. You can't just put it on the athletes. It's got to be your the government. You're operating on the taxpayers dollar. You've got offices. You're making the rule. You take some responsibility to.

and eight cg is so important for any doctor will take you go on testosterone you got to then go on hcg got to turn that turn that back on he didn't have that benefit the rules came in hit two different flags and he just wasn't ready to go down that path so he literally stopped everything called turkey opposite of the advice of his doctor and I've never asked him about that I just know his doctor would have said look this is what you need and he goes I'm out I there's no room for air here they've changed the rules I'm out

Yeah, I remember that very well, and but D V toward did not have any. He did not have testosterone. He did he has level was high in all of that, but he didn't have any endogenous testosterone in him. He had no supplement whatsoever. So that was a little bit misunderstood. And then also to your point. Thank you very much. And then also to his point or to your point. Why, man, we was tested. If he would have been tested in the morning, it would have been down. Right. Uh, if he would have just had a hard workout and chewed up a lot of the testosterone, it would have been down. So that was a little confusing. V-tores hands were clean there and Chris was misunderstanding what he was reading. Yeah. and let loose on him and Chris had every right to assume the VTAR was still trying to slip that through. That was the better part of his career. But in fairness, he wasn't when VTAR goes, hey, I'm out. He really, he was out and they tested the hell out of VTAR. He's passed them all. VTAR went straight.

Right. Yeah, and I think at hindsight, I think the commission would have handled it different. They've kind of even said that. Hey, we pulled the rug out here and they went as close to taking some some of the responsibilities you could without taking it. And the other side was fighters. We should have been able myself. We should have been able to just go time time out. I can't comply, but I want to be in compliance, but I can't right now. I've taken my orders out of the water. I'm going to go do my leave me out of it. Don't test me. I'll tell you right now. It's not

Uh-huh. But none of us knew what we didn't know. Like we made a lay when the guy showed up and the guy came to me and I'm in the closet with none of us knew what was going on. It's kind of a different world now. You have to have that education process. Whatever John's going through with Tim Mees will frame me. This is how we learn, you know, we learn from guys stumbling and stumbling their toe. They just don't give a big allowance for that. It's pretty black and white on these rules. John's going to be out for two years. I keep hearing things speculative on how long he's going to be. It's real clear. It's going to be out for two years. That's the minimum if he test it by his out for two years. That's just what it is.

Anderson Anderson beat the clock on the mandatory how long you're out. He came in just before that. Hector Lombard came in just before that. So those guys weren't subject to that. Anderson got, they could have done whatever they want for him to him. The standard was nine to 12 months. He probably would have gotten nine, but he denied it to the end. They hate that. He shows up. All of a sudden he doesn't speak English. They hate that. They were still pretty light on him though for three substances and a guy that still was resisting the test and coming in with a store and refusing to talk to him 12 months that they were pretty reasonable by their standard by their standard what what do you think is a reasonable suspension if a guy does get popped for estrogen blockers and he says hey I fucked up I wanted an edge I took it what's a reasonable amount of suspension what My answer will be different because you said four estrogen blockers. Again, he's blocking something. He's not adding something. He's blocking something. Now, they come back in with their intellectual approach ago. You're only blocking it because you did something before we didn't catch it before. So we're going to get you now. Not a terrible argument, but if you just look at what he did, I think that I think there needs to be some conversation there. I was there in front of the commission one day. I got approved for a steroid for testosterone. That same day Nick Diaz took a hundred thousand dollar fine and lost his license for a year for pot of which he had illegal medication for blah, blah, blah, you know the story on that. So you never know what's going to happen when you get in there. You never know what's going to happen. It's not a court remedial likes to say he's going to have his day in court. Well, that's not that you don't have a day in court court. implies a judge, which implies a disinterest to third party. You're going in front of the people who have accused you. So if they clear you, they're now admitting they got it wrong to start with. That's literally never happened. They have never been wrong. Where they got, hey, we had this wrong going about your day. It's never happened.

I was either for, I can't think of anyone else, but I'd have to look, you know, Nick Diaz did the same thing. And they finally said, okay, he'll look less subtle with it.

That is who did it. And it was really weird because they came in with two things. First off, can you ban him for life? And second, did you have jurisdiction over him? Now, if you read the statute, you don't have to be a lawyer. The statute is very small and it's extremely clear. They did not have jurisdiction over him. At the same time, they can do anything they want. So they could ban him for life. You get in front of the judge, the judge rule just the opposite. You can't ban him for life. That's too extreme, which is not true for the statute. They can do that. historically they haven't but they can. They did not have the right to test him though because he was not licensed yet in Nevada and the statute clearly says to the licensee of which he was not Kaiser who was in at the time said listen the fights been announced in my state he's in my state that gives me the right well the judge agreed with him. The judge got it just backwards, but when they didn't, when they didn't realize, uh, when the judge then did not rule on how long this suspension would be, he sent him back to Nevada. He still hasn't got that results. So for every day that they kicked the can down the road, they win. He still suspended. So he got his release from the UFC. He can go fight in any other state he wants right now.

Not that I know of. I heard I heard a rumor that he would get to that eventually. But Vanillay's got some kind of wrestling thing lined up for like a tag team wrestling match. It's how it's got his way back to the pool.

He could have. Yeah, but I heard it hasn't the latest competition.

Fatigue's a son of a gun, too. Man, when you get tired, it doesn't matter how good you are. It doesn't matter what you did before. If you get tired, you got problems. Now, the good news for him is Maldonado got tired, too.

Or if it wasn't in Russia or if it wasn't. Yeah, there was definitely some politics there. And I fell back for Maldonato. You know, Maldonato thought he was going to get a fair shake. And I'm looking at going, well, no, Maldon, make sure you get a good paycheck because you're not getting a fair shake in Russia. And then he even filed a complaint after the fact of petition. And he filed two. It's like Maldonato just. Yeah, well, maybe you don't know how this works over there. But it's over.

And the real controversy was that first round that your time out with the ref could have stopped it probably should have, it wasn't a 10-8 round. And it's like, look, if that's not a 10-8 round, then what is? And that fight should have been a draw. It was one round, but it was 10-8 to two rounds for Fader. A lot of people argue rounds two and three, but they're wrong. Fader won those rounds. Maybe they're a club, but he won them. They should have been a draw.

Sure. I love to say it too. And I maintain that cane is the most intimidating figure in the heavyweight division. That even though he's jerk in the curtain on Saturday night for the biggest car to ever, he is the most intimidating guy in the back.

jerk in the curtain is the guy that starts the show you got to pull the curtain out of the way start the show that he started it and I right you got the heavy the former heavyweight champion who's headline cards and had bills with his name on the top of now a son he's jerk in the curtain but that's just because it's UFC 200 that's what I'm saying is the biggest card that was you know and a performance he had though Great performance. Travis Brown is nobody's fool. No. Travis Brown's right number four in the world was right number three.

One of the few guys to beat Josh Barnett and Travis is a good heavyweight. You need to be a basketball player. So you talk about steeper and then it goes steeper. He's a good athlete. And we don't have a ton of them. You know, some of the great athletes that are that size. They go into some other professions. You don't usually get him in this one. Steep is a good looking heavyweight. He moves well. He works hard. He's got the wrestling background. Play baseball. He's just a good guy, man.

Through two of them. I was even trying that for a minute. Harvey air pull of a side goes, hey, King, we got to start working on wheel kick.

Yeah, I agree with that and that's your point on for dooms over doom beats fade or who might be the great so you say you don't know who the greatest ever was it was it was it? Fade or or was it cane and the dream for doom for doom be the ball for doom doesn't end up in the conversation. It's one of those things.

points it's you know the MMA math sucks sure I mean we you just get's real hard to say this guy beat that guy so he's number one and that guy beat this guy so and when you talk about it one of one of the elements that comes in isn't the guy's wins and losses in his skills it's also an intimidation factor right what kind of intimidation they have overdosed man you know he makes the joker face and he's always teasing around so he gets overlooked but I don't think that's fair you know the same thing's happening to bisming Whydman comes out? He says Bisping's the most undeserving person of all time didn't up in a title spot. And I'm going to timeout Chris is a stud, but Chris timeout. You become famous and world champion by beating Anderson Silva. Bisping just beat the same guy that you beat. Bisping just beat the same guy that puts yourself over. Why does it not put Bisping over? Now he just beats Rockholt, who beats you and but Bisping still not over.

I'm trying fully agree with that. And I love this next matchup. You know, you heard it's going to be Dan Henderson. And that doesn't go in the rankings. I get all of that. But you know, I like that you have seen when they make the matches that people want to see. And that's an interesting match. If you think, if you think this thing's going to just go in and beat him or you look at Dan's record, you think that this thing doesn't go to bed at night, remember what that was like, the teasing, the highlight reel, all the people to everybody telling him about, you know, he's him flying through the air when he pounded this thing.

I stayed at Dan Henderson's house for a month helping him train for V-Tor. And when you turn Dan's TV off at night, the remote control says lights out and it's him hitting bisping. That's what lights up. That's what lights up on his remote control. I mean, he doesn't have confidence going into the Sharia's confidence. He knows he could be to me already did and if you think this pink's not going, man, I really don't want to be in there with that guy again. He's going to say, I want that one back and I want he's going to say all those things and try to convince himself with the bottom line is that's relevant. Dan Henderson could be the world champion.

Hector's tougher and hell.

Some monster monster fights a two different way.

I fully agree.

And Hector's one of those guys, regardless of what happens to him, and Hector's stubbed his toe a few times. You want to see Hector fight. Yeah. Hector's got the whole thing. He's going to do the promos before, and he's going to mean it. He's going to hate that opponent. It's real. He's going to look like a million bucks, and he's going to come out fighting. Whatever happens after that happens, but he's coming to fight.

Now, what about when George St. Pierre was saying he would come back and he wanted Bisp. And if George comes to the table and says, I'll come back, but only if, well, then it's only if you're doing it, you're doing that.

I agree that it doesn't sell more, but I'm saying if that's what you got to do to get George back to the table, I think you do it, don't you? If you're Dana, don't you do okay?

So it's larger. You think that Dana, told George no, no, I don't want to do that match.

And the way bisming needs to handle it. When you, uh, factor jacca ray in who's going, hey, wait a minute. I had a beat in you. I got the skills to beat you on the number one contender. Here's how bisming will handle it. Know you're not. Wait your turn. That's how they'll handle it. The way to shut those guys down, Joe, is to get, it's to go back to the truth. The truth, your friend, listen, jacca ray. You're more dangerous. You're more likely to beat me. And I'm not looking to get beat. So I'm going to go deal with this guy. It shuts everything. A bisping won't do it. Everybody likes to go out what you're turning this and then you're not as good as you think you are. Go fight your own America. Whatever it is, steer right into it. Yeah, I mean, you're way more like, here's what I want to do. I want to fight the easiest guy in the biggest stadium for the largest paycheck and that's what I'm going to politics to do. So you do your thing and I'm going to do mine.

But I can see that it was tight. He's fantastic.

So they're both fantastic.

I agree with you. Can I switch gears?

Joey DS. Tell me everything. How did you meet Joey DS? Because I, because then I want you to ask me this. I want you to ask me what my experience with Joey, but how did you meet him? How did he come into the fold?

So, I know of Joey. I don't know Joey. I've never met him. I've never met you.

TV in the whole bit. And, you know, I know him from from the media when I see your podcast and all the, but in he's in the circles. He does some jujitsu. He's funny and hell. And he's a gangster, so I like him, but I don't know anything about him. So he comes on my podcast. Now, he has a podcast. So of course, my opening line to him is, hey, how'd you get into a pocket? Right? I'm going to put, here's your plug for your podcast, and we're going to go on and talk about my agenda. So I say, Joe, I say to him, Joey, how'd you get into a podcast in his response? You know, jail son, and he won't come in jail. It was always, you know what, jail son? He still calls me, Joe Rogan. I'm mugged a hooker down in New Jersey, and Senator Wagon fire. It's okay. We got to there's two moving parts here. First off, that is, I don't know how that answers my question of how, but now I need to know the story here. So we ties it all together with, so he went on something, just something he got in a pair. It's he told the story of mugger and New Jersey and setting her wig on fire. And all of a sudden he blew up overnight because yeah, I realized people like the stores. I never knew that I had stories from the part of the country I'm in and the neighborhood I grew up and I thought everybody had these stories. He's like chill son and I thought I'd tell you I'm a hooker and lighter wig on fire. You go, yeah, well, I'm a 10 hookers and let 10 wigs on fire. I didn't know I had stories. And then it just goes from there and he starts telling me about, so he ends up doing two years or 18 months. I said, what kind of jam did you get in there? And he said, well, I was actually I was doing the cops job form. You know, the cops don't want drugs on the streets. I went and took two kilos off the streets form. This is how he presents it to me. Because, yeah, you know, the two kilos wasn't as big of a deal. Oh, he said, oh, so I robbed two kilos. He goes, and you know what else, chill, son? I just happened to have a machine gun. Why can't you see where that happening? She has sometimes you just back into a machine. I had a machine gun with me and he goes, but it's funny. I wasn't in trouble for the gun. I really wasn't that much trouble for the drugs. What they were upset about was the kidnapping. I'm going, okay, what happened? This is my intro to the gun. I'm like, what what in the hell is this story? You probably know this story, but I didn't. So he tells me the whole story and he says, yeah, but you know, kidnapping is kind of a weird charge because when you invaderly got in that scuff on the ultimate fire, if I come and grab you and I take you into the next room, just to cool you down, taking you into a room against your, that's kidnapping. So I think like they got him on a technicality jam like what they're doing with Frank Me or some of these guys were talking about. And I said, okay, is that what happened? And he goes, no, I duct tape the guy who's in my trunk and then I held him in the house for a week before I let him go.

I still don't know because he's crazy. It's funnier than hell. And so I was trying to talk like some, see, I try to do more of a Joe Rogan experience. You're my idol. I try to do my show the way you do yours, but I'm not there yet. It takes all the build that audience. So I got a stick on MMA and pro wrestling. I got a really staying, but I don't want that. I want just, I want to just talk.

Was I bring these guys in? I'm trying to do a little more that I go to TMZ. I see the local stuff. I try to ask and pop culture question. So I dip my talent politics with Joey. Obama had just made this new rule of going any bathroom you want. So I asked Joey about that and he goes, chill, son, I've been taking a dump in the woman's bathroom since I'm five years old and believe me. I have dealt with the consequences.

Yeah, he goes, what my mom used to own a restaurant. So, you know, I kind of had, I cleaned the bag, then I'd sit down. And the women's, he goes, you know what happens if you drop your coke on a men's bathroom floor? No, I don't know. I don't do coke. I tested positive for everything in the world, but coke wasn't one of, I used to say, you leave it there. You know what happens if I drop my coke on a women's bathroom floor, you get down and lick it up. That's what he says, but he's trying to say the women's room's cleaner. He been using him since he's five years old and he said, and I have dealt with the consequences, which I knew. I want the answer to what those were. It's just, it's like, there's too many other things to talk to this guy, but I got to get back to the hooker with the wig that he mugged.

a movie right his not a movie like an epic adventure series of novels like his life is insane well to qualify so he he tells this story about robbing this guy with a machine gun that he's happened to have taking the two kilos off the street doing the cops job form but then having the guy in his trunk duct tape before he moved him to the house before let him go he had that guy on his podcast yes He found him on social media, tried to friend him or like him or whatever you call it on fate. I'm a Twitter guy, but this was Facebook. Guy ignored him for about two years and finally responded. Now Joey's had him on his pocket. He says we catch up about once a month. And he goes the end. Guy was good people. He never turned being. He said it was my partner in the whole thing. The partner tried to double cross me. We stole the coat and he was going to steal it for me. But I knew what time it was. That's an expression I'd never heard before, but I planned to take with me through my next years in life. Whenever, whenever you, I knew what time it was. I just thought that was a great line. The whole thing was, I asked him about the gorilla. The gorilla had just got shot where they killed him at the zoo. And he says, you know what, Chelsea, they don't give us the gorilla. I'm down at the zoo last week. The gorilla is they got their hair messed up. They don't eat bananas. They want chicken cutlets. Shoot the effing gorilla. And it's like, you had no idea what's going to ask you that. That was so spontaneously funny. You know, that news had just broken it right then. I was like, this is the guy. This is a funny guy.

I'm here to tell tomorrow. I'm gonna do fighter in the kit. I got to see speaking of come. I got to see Adam Hunter last night live and he lit it up Adam Hunter. He was very funny.

He worked the whole crowd in. He made it a thing and he sold the venue out as his real intimate atmosphere at Stratus for I would guess a hundred seats. A very small but it was packed. That's perfect. went right around the room. I mean, he wrote, and there's nothing off limits. Women's jokes, gay jokes, race jokes, everything, and it was awesome and possibly as funny as, like, who's going around a couple? Say, how'd you guys meet? Hey, how'd you guys meet? You know, where'd you guys meet? You meet the UFC? You guys fight face doing the whole thing. There's a nerdy couple. Because where'd you guys meet, lens crafters? It's a right. See, it's brilliant. It's in its simplicity. You can use that line in school and not even get attention. I mean, that's a powerful and funny line.

I can't remember, but that was a funny line. Yes, and then you, you used to like a paper view that was, I think it was on FS1.

Well, here we're playing if we're playing that game. I can't tell one, but if I quote him, maybe I can't. He sends me a text after the Orlando shooting. The very next day says, hey man, let me know you're okay. I heard there was a shooting at a gay club. I just want to check on you. It's like, now you got to do that in private. You can't let your community now come in. It's can do anything they want.

I'm just reading it. That's funny. I wonder how many other people you sent that to, but I'm the right mark for that because that's funny. That's funny.

And I believe in the rule, Joe, if it's funny, then you can do it.

You sent out a great tweet. It might have been as recently as yesterday, but it was a two part. The first part said this country does this country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem and this country has a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem as a security problem and it went crazy Twitter lit up and when I'm reading that I'm going okay Joe's dipping in something here Joe doesn't usually dip in but but he's right there is no way to say that that statement's not right and it wasn't meant to be funny that was a very true and I thought a powerful statement by you.

And in the age two, and that's relevant, you know, my nephew's eight years old. Well, he got in last Christmas. He got a gun and we live in the country. That's normal. Kids have guns by the time they're eight years old at three, four years old. They're starting with BB guns. They advance to a pellet. You got a shotgun. Some parts of the world go man, that's insane. You gave a kid a gun. Well, we live out in the cut. Yes, the kid has the gun at the other side of it though. There is no crimes where I come from done with the gun. Whether guys doing a simple robbery, and I don't mean to dismiss that, but in the eyes of murder, it is never. And one of the reasons that we maintain is when you have guns and you go up with guns, you learn the dangers of guns. You never play with those things. You never point those things at anybody. When you're out shooting watermelons and pop cans or whatever, it may be you learn real fast. This is why I don't. Pull a gun. This is why don't do this. We don't know anything about the things like the cities and New York and all these people are trying to take the guns away. We don't know anything about that out in the country. Never. We don't have any gun problems and everybody's got them.

Sure, and your original point on this is the only thing that stops you from getting a gun is having a felony. It's like, well, that makes sense and nobody's disputing them, but there's got to be a few more things to your point. We need to find out if you're a medicator. Simple drug test. This is pretty quick. You know, the NRA is real big that a guy gets a gun two day because he might need to take it well. No, the guy's got a plan ahead. It's just like a driver's license. Maybe maybe the 16 year old has a date on Saturday, but if he doesn't have the license and he's just going to have to postpone the date. Because there needs to be more things than just simply going, you know, let me run your fingerprints and a sentence comes back to your point. Are you on drugs or your medication? How about a train? I've never heard anybody make that argument before, but I love that analogy. You have to get a license for a car. It's a pretty simple process, but you have to do it. Well, you should have to do it with a gun, too, because people need to know why you don't use guns.

Can't get a license, right?

Yeah, and I think they just do it at the wrong time. You know, they get emotions involved. JFK made a statement back when he was president never let a good crisis go to waste. So it is believed by politicians when you have a crisis. That's when you go on the attack. But that's when emotions are the highest. I disagree with this statement. It's a good time to get your agenda out there. But you're just pissing people off in your entrenching them in their own views. A great time to bring up the gun argument. I'm pro gum, but I do understand. Look, there's some room to give her. I love what you said about a license. You relate that to a driving a car makes perfect sense. Bring it when emotions are a little bit less. Come forward and go, hey, listen, let's make sure we do this. And if you're worried about your safety, kind of get a little bit proactive here. Start the process so you can have a gun if that's what you want to do. But I don't agree. I think that they're they're wrong following Jeff case model that he said in 1964. I think here in 2016, let emotions die down a little bit. Let not people not be pissed on one side of the other. We're worried about protecting themselves and their family. We're worried that something's going to happen to themselves with their family. You get good people with really different views here. I think that they're misplacing JFK's philosophy. In my opinion, in 2016, let things die down a little bit and then bring it up.

Is it any bad? You're not supposed to say anything.

I did not know that. I know politicians try to be correct all the time and say African-American, but that term is wrong. It's black. Yes, not all blacks are African.

Yeah, people have this absolute fetish for the Constitution. No matter how many times we've amended it over the years, and it extends to the bill of rights too, and they need to take, you bring up a feather, but And that's accurate. They signed it with a feather, but they were also married to their cousin and they bathed once a week.

There you go. And it's like, hey guys, the things changed. Now these guys did their level best at that time, but they couldn't see the world in perpetuity. And the other side is, no matter how many times we've amended the Constitution, you guys still have a fetish that this was like the gospel. This wasn't touched by the hand of God. This was written by Knuckleheads with eighth grade educations.

We got it. And people also love the basis behind it. It wasn't about hunter and gather. Like some people say it was about look if our government has guns, then we have guns so that we can always overtake our government. Should we need to now? The world of tanks and aircraft and everything, of course, that doesn't hold, but that's the part that people like. They don't want to give their government the power that the people don't have. That is a wonderful philosophy, but it's kind of outgrown itself.

I mean, I'm not an effective leader. Yeah. Yeah. For all the wrong, but yeah, he is effective.

Sure, Martha Martha Stewart went to jail just for lying to the FBI. You know, now Hillary's in that same jam. The FBI saying they didn't look into it. That whole thing is very fugazzy. You know, that whole thing is very corrupt. And I think that Komi at the FBI is a reasonable guy or however I tend to believe him. But that's this was never a fair shake. Obama stays out of the whole thing. Then he finally comes in. You know, Loretta Lynch finally comes in and says, well, we're gonna honor whatever the FBI says. And then four days later, the FBI drops the news. It's like, guys, this has been going on for a year. You know, I'll tell you something else. You know, who looks weak in the whole thing is the FBI. These guys are supposed to be great. We put 40 people on the Hillary Clinton class to put that in perspective for the listeners. Four people were assigned to alcohol. 10 times the amount and it took them one year of having the evidence to make a ruling. I mean, come on, that's weak. The same thing's going on with ISIS. We're supposed to have this great military and no offense to our people that serve, but offense to the people that are handcuffed in our military. ISIS when I first heard about them. for the very first time was 200 members strong. Now they are 4,000 strong and weak still can't stop these guys and we're supposed to be the best look. Of course we could. We just don't but it makes us look weak. That would not happen in Russia. Nobody attacks the Russians. If you attack Putin you will be fighting Putin right now. No permission, no Congress, no BS. You want to go, you're going to go with Russia and that's why nobody does.

Yeah, and so many people think that Trump's crazy and he's going to lead us into war. It's like guys sometime Read the art of war just read the art of work because the best general never fires a shot ever Putin hasn't had a whip a lot of astinopuno kill you if he needs to but he hasn't had he took over a part of the Ukraine didn't kill a person he rolled in he said he wanted it and now he has a part of the Ukraine K that's leadership he aligned But it's lead. I'm not saying this is good, but that's what a leader does. A leader makes this, he goes in and takes something. He even had to kill anybody. The best general never fires a shot. Donald Trump isn't planning to go and whip people. He's planning to make people think he will whip them, which is why he's not going to get us into wars and people, a lot of people don't see that. And Trump can't come out and reveal this big curtain or people go, oh, well, the whole thing's a joke. He can't do that. So he's got to stand this ground. Take people saying he's crazy. Hope that enough. Enough people get it to vote him in the office, but that's all he's doing. He's going around saying, it's our way or the highway where the economic power will the military power. We do things right. You're going to do it our way and we're not going to do a lot of compromising. When you align like that, you look at North Korea all the craziest they do there. They scare everybody for years. We've made a bunch of money. Bill Clinton paid him $8 billion. George Bush paid him $6.5 billion. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're Democrat or Republican, you're paying these knuckles for making a strike. They've never fired a shot. They just understand the art of war. Talked up. Whoever talks tough is the toughest on the playground. Everybody listening to this had a tough guy in school. Hey, who's the toughest guy in school? Everybody listening to this right now can go, oh, I'll take that guy. They all know. I'd ask him a follow-up question. You ever see him getting a fight? And all of them are going, no, no, who'd fight him? He was the toughest guy in school. Whoever talks to toughest is the toughest. And those rules don't change from the playground to the octagon to the White House. They don't change. The best general never fires a shot.

Yeah, no, I love it. And to your point, he is running his presidential campaign. The way Vince McMahon would promote a WrestleMania. And he's getting attention. He's a Vulcan and Emotion. Frontro Brian actually told me who's watching right now. He keeps texting quick shout out to him. I'm stealing his line, but he's right about that. And he's a Vulcan and Emotion. He's getting people involved. He understands that ratings are what get you on TV. He understands he can save money for that. He's also refused to take donations. He doesn't want to be bought. He wants everybody to understand that he's going to go in free and clear and oh no, but anything.

He took it back. But Joe, he was very candid about it. He said, I have been funny this myself. And he said, and frankly, I haven't gotten a very good return. I'm funding this myself so everybody knows I'm not bought and sold that I haven't made deals that I'm going to go in there and actually represent the people. I'm going to take a pay cut. I'm going to go do a job. I don't want to do because it's a job. I think I need to do that message didn't get out. And he said, look, I'm losing in the polls to somebody who is bought and paid for because she's got more money than me. You people don't seem to understand this message of me going in there, not own anybody anything. I haven't got an investment on my return and I'm thinking about taking it back and opening up to the nation. He but he's very honest about it. He's very candid.

He had the emergency drive, but that was interesting too. He said I want to raise $10 million in two days and by the way, if you guys give me $10, I'll throw another $10 in myself. So he ended up matching he put $20 million. Then he did it again. It was such a success. He did it again.

A lot of a lot of people, he's thinking up Elizabeth Warren as everybody. I don't think so. I think she's cognizant enough to know that America does not want to look sexist, but it in fact is that America is going to have a hard time putting a female as the commander and chief of the military who doesn't come out and endorse anybody, but if you talk to him privately, they do not want to be led by a woman. That's a reality. I think she's smart enough to know they damn sure don't want to be led by two, but of course would never say that publicly, right? We don't want to look sexist as a country, even though we are. If Hillary wants to put the nail in the coffin of this campaign, she puts Bill as her VP. She does not have an ego that would allow her to do such, and I think she might make the air of putting Elizabeth Warren in.

Yeah. She lied straight up. And that's racist.

Yeah, there's no way around that one. She sure did. And then what she commented on her, I, well, my eyes look this way. She, yeah, it got bad. It got bad. And Trump instead of just, instead of saying the way you used it, well, you know, you lied about me. He calls her Pokemon on us. Yeah, Pokemon on us over there. Somebody says that's right. He says it more.

Yeah, and he's not done and he's not backing off and everybody keeps waiting in the back yard.

It does. It doesn't. We talk about VP picks. I'm not sure that they've got it right. The media thinks they've got it narrow down to four guys and they added one more for Trump on Trump side. Christy and Gingrich and Pence and they've got five. I don't think they're right. I think that he will go outside the box. He's not going to put a woman in there just just to put a vagina on the ticket and think he's going to do well like McCain did with Paylin. I think he's going to bring in somebody that's either got Admiral or Colonel or General next to their name. I think that is very important for him.

Bill Clinton treated the White House like it was a frat and I will forever appreciate that. I just will. I just will. I mean, he was a mess. He was all these different. He was on a polygetic. He was the master liar. Remember the divisible in the Demont, not denominator. And he was going in all these circles and before you done, you just flat out confused. Man, that Oxford degree really sent me in circles. I guess we give this guy a pass.

Yeah. See, and that's another one though, Joe. You know, my mean, if he would have just told the truth back then, just use the truth on a side would have all been done. If he would have just said, man, I'll sleep with anything in the world except her. If he would have just done that, it'd be all over and said he started getting crazy. If he would have hit him with that line. You know, it's the same thing. It's the same thing with Trump right now. If he would have just said, look, I think that America should have a long leash, but attack to that leash as a big old bomb. And this is how we're going to do it. And we'll light the thing if we have to. It's hard to deal with. It's really hard to deal with. I got all of this, this philosophy from you, giving me your take on how Michael Richards should have handed the comedy store. When you said he should have come out, he should have said, here's my problems. I'm not a funny comic. Okay, I was self-conscious. You guys made me feel bad. I wanted to hurt your feelings. Had nothing to do with race. I tried to hurt your feelings. And you're right. It all went away because we got, yeah, what that is what happened. Yeah. It is what happened.

That put a damper, but you're right. She was the original. She was the original as sat in the hot speed. Everybody was waiting for the tearful John Jones style apology and it did not come. She's huge. She ended up doing a comedy or an appearance tour, whatever. He sold, he did seven and a half million dollars in tickets on a two week tour because of that one sit down where he refused to apologize. Why do I like to part

Right. This cover-up is always worse than the crime. Again, you go back to John Jones. John Jones gets taken that coke thing. He pops on Fox and the woman asks him why he did it. And that was it. And John said, well, you don't bet any, any try to dance around. He had to do these pocketed lines. I did it to get high. Next question, stupid. Yeah. That's how you, it's, oh, yeah. It was fine.

Right. That's the answer. But use the truth on your side. It just shuts everybody down. And it's, it's endearing and refreshing.

Yeah, and they were fagazzy.

Various thing but all you're gonna do is confuse people when you start talking about that and frankly you can't get doctors to totally agree even who sought it with their highest scientists never there there's some confusion there There was something for gaysy going on, but it wasn't enough it was just enough to start rumors not to actually take him in and and go against him But you know you closed over what I opened the show with and I thought it was gonna be one of the high points of the whole podcast I didn't know if you had to do it no not the cup I don't know if you had to do it so I don't mean to go back to it, but The point that this test that we're all talking about is June 16th, and there could, there's gotta be another shoe that's getting ready to drop. Now, whether that comes back hotter, what it comes back clean, we don't know, but there's no way that who saw this last time testing a guy for a fight that was supposed to take a place this last night, it was June 16th. There's just no way. They've gotta be at least another test out there, and possibly two. Brock Lesnar, they test him every other day for a while.

Tell the story. All right, let's tell the story. Usada came in.

But this from some of those teammates, UFC fighters that claim they were there, but that and that doesn't make it true, but you got to be tired of him beating the fuck out of that too. Well, all the disclaimers aside, let's get down to the entertainment side of this. So Soda rolls in to Jackson's gym to do a test on John Jones. And there was only some coaches in there and John, there was like five people there at the time. So he can see them coming. They were, they parked, he can see them coming. So they don't know what to do with them. They hide him underneath the cage. They hide John Jones hides out of the cage. they tell John we don't know where he is and this is before we were enrolled in the program and he did not need to disclose his whereabouts at the same time if they show up and find you you must have ventilate the situation must test they can't find you you didn't have to test back this way he hides under the ring They said, well, where is he? He's supposed to, you know, this is his gym. They said, well, what I know where he is. So instead of leaving, like they thought they would do, they take a seat. Well, there's like eight hours left in the business day. They don't ever leave. However long with six or eight hour time frame, John's under the cage the entire time. So people are coming and going. The whole thing is finally they shut the lights off and go to lock the doors. Now, John can come out. Well, who saw to found out about that? And they wanted, they didn't do this. They wanted to get a warrant and go under that ring under the theory that at some point in that six to eight hour span, he would have had a pee. Well, they wanted to go under forensically and collect that urine. That's how upset they were that they had been had. Now, I realize that we're saying all the nice of a, that happened. How long was the time frame and all that, that, that, that parts, that part of the story, even they were coming after him after that when they found out that they had been to anything they hate. They don't like when people say their test doesn't work and they don't like being duped. And they came after, remember when I predicted rumble Jones will not happen? Yes, you did it. That's because I had that story and I knew Sada was looking for him. I knew they had boots on the ground in Albuquerque. He fought waiting for him to leave the club late in front to get him for anything. I was armed with that. I've never told that side. That's why I predicted that fight would happen. I knew they were after him. And this is before we had to do the whereabouts like we do now. Back then it was just random and they had peep. They were just waiting. They were just waiting for the right time. They were going to grab him.

Or better yet, Joe, you go under and you clean underneath the cage. That would also solve the problem.

Yeah, it was just a mess, but yeah, that's, that's could be anybody's urine.

I got even got to it. Yeah, we got a big thing coming up Sunday This coming Sunday yet July 17th live in free on flow combat and you got to be a member right? That's that's the trick sell to it But you're not buying a paper view window You get you just get a monthly subscription. That's where flow combat flow combat dot com FLO that's right FLO combat. Thank you for correcting me on that Uh, EBI rules, Eddie Bravalinvitational rules that they'll go for eight minutes. There's no score. You either find a submission or you don't. If you don't, you're going to an overtime format. Now, you know how EBI works. And this is the biggest promotion of the whole thing. Isn't that somebody's going to go out and compete. And I got to do some grappling since I've been retired. But we always had a clause that if you could eat up the clock, you got to draw. Nobody loses. Whether it's a victory sometimes when you're in over your head, you're out there wrestling for a draw. When I head, go Val. That was out there wrestling for a draw under EBI rules. Somebody's going to tap. So when you factor in you've got Jake Shields taking on Chris Lidal, one of those guys is going to tap. When you've got Vinnie McGillianz, maybe the best grappler there is right now. He always cracks me on that too. I feel like it's tomato tomato. vitty muggyly and so I said bitty muggyly ace all right uh... you know he's going to be taken on rony marks king moga and he heard his neck rony marks is now stepped in he fought you all in there here in here and so yeah king mohurt is neck king mohurt and pull out i pulled him off the car it's not as he was heard It happened in his fight with Phil Davis, and he's one of the main training partners for Robbie Lawler, and he hasn't even been able to train with Robbie. I ran into Labario, uh, you want to correct man that in the body. Thank you. Ran into Labario over the weekend at the, at the Super Show, and uh, He said, man, King Mo, King Mo can't move. He just doesn't. He doesn't want to pull out. Are you a disc? Yeah, something like that. I don't have all the details, but I got to hold them all. I said, is this true? He said, yeah, I'm going to condo any grappling.

Yeah, we got to pull that one. So honey Marx is in. He fought you over, Mayor Aaron Simpson. Do you remember those? He just signed with World Series of Fighting. So honey's in against Vinnie and then the biggest one the absolute biggest one There wasn't meant to be but this is the one that's got my phone ringing and Rico Rodriguez is coming back after all these years He's going to take on Fombia on a sugar my coach. He's going to take on my coach and one of them is going to tap Yeah, I'm going to read to someone that's so slot in UFC back in the day.

He's fantastic and then the question with Rico Joe, you know And grappling is a gateway into MMA. So now that Rico's all sitting back and grappling, that's everybody's big question. Is he coming back to MMA? And he's one of those guys that left the sport on his own. There wasn't that a promoter when it signed him or day and it didn't want him or pride when it put him under contract. He had those personal, he did whatever. But he left on his own. It's kind of the way Sean shirt left. Sean just one day wasn't fighting anymore, but it took like two years till the announcement came. It just makes me wonder. Is Rico coming back? And I think that that's pretty cool if he is. It's very rare where a world champion returns. That's speculation. We'll see what happens.

Yeah, you go over your register at Flow Combat.com. I think it's like 15 bucks a month, 14.95. It's a network though. It's kind of like fight past. There's content. There's behind the scenes. It's a whole network. So you're not going to buy a paper view window that shuts off. You become a member. Now you can turn that off the next day. You can turn it off at the end of the month. You're going to buy it for the month. So you get an entire package. They've got a ton of members. These are real successful guys. So it's kind of just to satisfy them. The show sold that's completely sold out in Portland. It'll be in my mind the biggest grappling event ever. I've done Metamores. Metamores was sold out, but they had 700 tickets. This is a lot more tickets. It's sold out. The only way to watch will be on flowcombat.com. So the guys that are participate are going to have a lot of fun. I did some grappling. I just took a Michael Bisping in a grappling match. Roy Jones was on the card. Kurt Angler was just crazy card. We wrestled in Arizona. Like the week after he'd be at Anderson. This just happened. Really? But nobody came. See, people were like you. They didn't even know what was going on.

Fought a fan that goes five and three in MMA. Two-and-oh in amateur boxing, and he gave Roy a match. He gave Roy a match. He gave Roy a match. Tell Roy figured about Bumble and shut him off.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, Roy is staying busy though, you know.

Right. That is true. Yeah, it was good to see right there. But the point was, you know, that you had to limit him out of people there. So in grappling events, and then Metamorphis now, or at least for the last one, they've got to show up coming up too. But the last one they had, we rest on front of nobody. I was kind of into that, but the point is, you know, grapplers like people there, I just kind of like that opposite feel from going to a packed arena to that feel. Kept more of a practice room atmosphere, uh, at any rate with Kumite. Now that you're correcting all my words, is that what I'm trying to say? Yeah. This one sold out. So the grapplers that are going to wrestle, they're going to have a roaring audience, and it's, it's a rare thing.

Before we went into this and I said, hey, let's work doing it. You know what he's doing? We're getting it. We can fall in the same day. It's how do you want to do this? You know, let's not get in a battle with each other. He goes, no, no, just the opposite. He said, I want these guys to have someone to wrestle. He said, but chill, do this. Take my rules. Call it EBI that puts me up, but he goes, but do it. And he had a great point, Joan. Here's what his point was. He said, you know, everybody that has a grappling event wants to make up their own rules. He said, but it's an industry for the gym owners. for the guys that are going into the gym and they're training every day, they need to be able to train the same way. The coach needs to be able to have a stopwatch, just like he does MMA, five minute round, you do three of them, if you're in a main event or title fight, you do five of them, you go into a basketball court, you go, it's the same universal rules. He said for an industry, we need to be all teammates, all no-guid you, they need to be able to train the same way so the coach can run a practice and he has to go, you guys, training for Abu Dhabi over here and you guys, training for the IBJF over here and you So I thought, Eddie, you're right. If us promoters can all get together and unify some rules, like the unified rules of MMA, as an industry, the trickle down, which is the gyms, we can get this thing figured out, and then we can start to have a hybrid. And Eddie's rules really are quite perfect. You know, he calls in the most gangster rules out there, but he's right. I talked to Vinnie, I talked to some other guys that I would talk to. I talked to Sola Rivera, they're going, look, it's EBI. That's how you find. If you want to know who the best is, you got to go EBI rules.

I talk to Hallick about that and Hallick, as you know, I do have one problem with that. He said, I, guys are more, I can get him to wrestle more. Guys kind of like that, that clause and you got to have a time limit somewhere and we don't quite know how to figure out the overtime yet. He said, but the problem running into is I want a champion. He said, and it's hard to build a division and decide who's the next number one contender. If you don't have an architecture in place where a guy advances through a bracket, if you will, you have to have, you have to have a winner.

Yeah, yeah, certainly I love that you know who toner is by the way, you know, he's so exciting. Oh, yeah, he's just he's fantastic, but you've got so many guys like this, you know, if you dangle that big carrot and all of a sudden you're just signing the most popular and the most famous guys. It's kind of tough. I really like the Olympic model or even the NCAA model. The best guy always steps forward, but the best guy a lot of times has a hard time getting his chance promoters want guys that are going to sell. It's like, let's put that on hold. If you're a good promoter, you'll figure out how to sell. You just will. If you're a promoter, use Dana's chart. You'll bring in the bells and whistles. But let's get everybody a chance. The same way the Olympics games does. You know, let's anybody that thinks they're best. Raise your hand. Let's get in here and figure it out. Now, we're going to have to have a lot of events. We're going to have to work. But let's get a system in place and let's figure it out.

It is called submission underground. It can be found at flowcombat.com Live and free to all members.

absolutely.

Thank you for the point. Bruce Buffer was going to announce this show. He fell on, we could go to ACL.

Sad. Sad. One bruise to get better. Yeah.

Watch him live out of the ring.

Flowcom.com.com.com and it is this Sunday, July 17th, live and free for all members.

Shail peace son and I am here to speak to you about the pathetic state of affairs in today's grappling competition when grapplers come when promotions bring these guys They're not sending their best. They're boring. They're dull. They're not risk takers. I am going to change all of that No more 20-minute matches. We're can end in a draw. What kind of atmosphere? Inz in a draw. This is anti-competition. One set of rules. Somebody must win and somebody must lose. Guys, this is America. We don't go to draw. We play for keeps. We play for somebody to get their hand raised. Guys, if you don't know you damn sure should know on July 17th, submission underground is invading. Portland, Oregon's Rosalind Theater. Now tickets are sold out, but you still got a chance. Go to your desktop, grab your smartphone, send a pigeon, send a fax if you have to let your friends know. Don't be left in the dark. Monday morning around the water cooler. Don't be the only person that didn't witness history. Go to flowcombat.com.