Transcript for #845 - TJ Dillashaw, Duane Ludwig & Bas Rutten

Yes. Slow down, Twain. Slow down. You have an orange watch. You are a fucking, what is the orange thing?

So there's a fruit bowl and there's an orange right next to it, but now I'm orange. Grammar orange.

Yeah, no, he's a madman. We worked out today in the middle of like training. He just gets excited. It's fast together. That's what I love it.

That's interesting. Like while the footwork drills and everything, I never really thought of that. Like you probably don't have to do roadwork.

That's fascinating. You have to kind of regulate that, huh? Like there's a standard model that like a lot of fighters fall and roadwork is a big part of that. But you think with all the stuff that you do if you did that as well, it might be too much.

It's funny because everybody's got a different sort of way of doing it. Like Jeremy Stevens was on the podcast recently and one of the things that he was saying is that he really ramped up his running to the point where that But he was saying that having like this like long endurance base really helps him and fights because he knows that he is always going to recover. He can always push further and harder.

Yeah, I think it helps with his weight cut. But I think with him, it's also like a mental thing to he wants to break guys like he's such an aggressive guy like that's a big part of like his training is just being able to like have those extra gallons in the gas tank.

We were talking before the podcast about our friend Cam Haynes just ran 200 miles and we're like, that shit is not good for you.

It might be good for his brain though, because he's so fucking crazy. He needs to know that he can do something like that. He ran for 78 hours.

some crazy amount of miles into the mountains, camped out when in deeper and deeper because he kept encountering wolves and grizzly bears, camped out there, shot an elk, and for the last four days has been packing out this elk by himself. four days so if you've never shot an elk or you've ever seen an elk before and elk could weigh you know somewhere around 800 pounds which is probably around 400 pounds of meat that he's packing out so four days of a hundred pounds on his back

Yeah, and he's pretty sure he said he hiked 12 hours. So that could easily be, you know, who knows how many miles.

Yeah, puzzle. So he's got a hundred pounds on his back for 10 hours, 12 hours a day for four days in a row. Yeah. That's an engine. That's a workout.

He also, you could get him on Instagram, Adam Green Tree, Bow Hunter on Instagram. He documented it at all. You know what the Instagram stories? So he was there, there he is. And a dude met him up there, a friend of his, hiked through the night to come and meet him up there and help him, I think, on the third or fourth day. But he's got all these videos of him up there in the mountains.

Yeah, it's just, it's just so cool because I mean, he's just out there survive. Look at this, we're looking right now for folks at home listening. We're looking at this tent that's covered in snow, the grounds covered in snow, and this is where he's been living for the past week. I mean, that is the high country. Because when you're a public land, most countries don't, or most, yeah, most countries don't have the same sort of public land setup that we have in the United States where you can just go hike into the mountains and camp out in these national forests. And so he took advantage of all that and he's up there.

Yeah, all you have to do is come to Montana. You buy a tag. I think a tag for an elk is a thousand bucks. And, you know, he's up there with a pistol because his bears up there. So his is his kill site a bear came in on his kill site when he came back. Yeah. There was a grizzly there and there's a lot of grizzlies in Montana. This episode is brought to you by Robin Hood. You want financial security for you and your family? Well, you gotta make it happen. The world doesn't owe you a living and that's how I've always approached my finances and you can too with Robin Hood. Robin Hood pioneered commission-free stock trading over a decade ago, and they continue to offer innovative products to help you maximize your money's potential. With over 23 million funded customers, Robin Hood is helping people build a better financial future. Robin Hood gives you complete autonomy to make investments to pursue your future goals, whatever they are. Maybe you want to look towards investing for your family's future, investing for retirement, or even a vacation to the Bahamas. We all have some bucket list items to cross off and Robinhood has tools to help you pursue them. Investing a small amount now could make a big difference 30 years down the road. Take control of your financial future with Robinhood. Download the app or visit Robinhood.com to learn more. Disclosure, investing involves risk and loss of principle is possible. Returns are not guaranteed. Other fees may apply. Robin Hood Financial LLC, member SIPC, is a registered broker dealer. This episode is brought to you by Zippercrooter. Look, patience is good at all. But if you're just sitting around waiting for everything good to come your way, well, you're going to be disappointed. And you're going to miss out on some amazing opportunities like your dream vacation. You have to work. Save that money and actually plan it out. It's never going to happen if you just sit on your couch at home thinking about it. And the same applies to your company. You don't want to miss out on hiring the best people for your team. And luckily there's an easy solution. that you can use. It's ZipperCuter. Try it for free right now at zippercuter.com slash rogan. They'll find you qualified people for your role quickly. And once you find someone you like, ZipperCuter can help put you at the front of the pack. Just use their pre-written invite to apply message to connect with your favorite candidates ASAP.

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Wow, look at that thing. Good lord. Yeah. So we're looking at Chad Mendes is it says a 63 inch do it yourself Alaska moose hunt is now live on as YouTube channel 63 inches the width of the horns Which is just insane. That's that is an enormous animal So if an elk is 800 pounds that's probably like 1500 1600 pounds. That's an enormous animal

He's guides, yeah, he guides people. That's awesome. That's his passion. Yeah, that's what he wants to transition to after he's done fighting.

Well, here's a question. He got popped for some supplement thing. Like one of the, and a lot of people are getting popped for tainted supplements. If you buy things in the store, there's a lot of supplements that you get like at any nutrition store that have all these like If they're not steroids, they're peptides, they're all these things that sort of make your body produce more hormones that are illegal by useada. And he got caught for that stuff apparently. Is that what he got caught for? Yeah, yeah. But they proved it that it was the supplement.

Speaking of your body. I poking. Did you see that picture of Travis Brown's finger knuckle deep in the firmery silver dooms eyeball?

Well, it was it was a bomber to me to see Travis fight like that because I remember Travis earlier in his career was just to look at that picture. That is creepy. fucking insane. Esther Lynn from all elbows on Instagram put this picture up and she's an MMA photographer. She takes awesome pictures and this is insane. I mean, it is literally knuckle deep in his eyeball. It's just, it's hard to look at, man. It's just, oh my god.

It's like this finger is disappeared in the eyeball.

I don't remember either. Let's focus. But there was a bad one earlier in the night with Jimmy Rivera and Yuraya. Yeah. That was a bad one. And Jimmy Rivera after the fights that he couldn't see. He still couldn't see. He's like, he said, he couldn't tell what color things were at his right eye. Yeah.

Someone's got to do something because the way things are going, we're just so many guys are getting eye-guys, so many guys getting damaged eyeballs. It's just, it's not worth it, man. And it seems like we're waiting for something terrible to happen. You know, like, look at Michael Bisping. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if Bisping's came from a kick though. I feel like it might have come from VTOR's kick. Was it that was an impractice? I don't know. Do you think it was impractice?

It seems like what they did is they stuck oil in his eye. I don't understand it. But one of his eyeballs, apparently, has oil in it that's protecting the retina. So that's why one of his eyeballs is black. Like yeah, I was wondering what was going on besides that's why Yeah, one is black and one is his original I call which I'm not sure what it is, but it's very strange looking But it's just he's a fucking savage I mean he's he didn't even consider retirings like yeah, yeah stick some oil in there.

He's in every turn and a mall. Yeah, sir. Michael Bisping is the middleweight champion in the world and who saw that comment?

Well, along the lines of what we were talking about today when we were working out, there's so much depth to this sport. There's so many options and there's so many possibilities that to the outside, people look at it, it looks brutal, you see that eye poke and like, oh my God, this sport should be illegal, it's much crazy. But to a person who really understands and watches it and appreciates it, it's like there's so, it's like this crazy language. That you have to learn with all these different words and all these different ways of putting together sentences and I like to use a language analogy because I give you're talking to someone and they only know a few words and they want to yell at you But you're like some Sam Harris type dude who can just has an incredible language and you're just so eloquent He's been them up like a web and they don't really don't know what the fuck to say And that also happens in a fight. When a guy has a very simple, like real obvious game, he does a couple of things and he does it well. As long as you engage him in that same sort of simple obvious way, he's got a chance. But when you overflut him, like, Dwayne was showing me this switch series that he works on, which is really amazing. Really, really interesting stuff. Thank you sir. But one of the things I noticed is while you were demonstrated to me, because it's so unusual if forced my brain to pick up for a second and go, oh, okay. And if that happens in a fight, your fucksville. Oh, yeah, 100%. Those little hiccups, right? Those little moments where your brain is overloaded, because it's got to think instead of just react, because you're doing something unique.

We were talking about your fight with Dominic Cruz that you seem so emotional. You wanted to kill that dude.

It was so obvious. You were head hunting as opposed to like one of the things that I really enjoyed about what your first and your second fight with Hennem Brown. But your first fight with Henan Barra was like here you are fighting for the title and you look like you're on a sparring session. Yeah, you were just so loose like right away You get through every there's nothing on attention to what you were doing everything was like flowing I was like look out like well He's responding to the pressure you were having a great time out there.

When you go and watch a fight after it's over, do you see openings and you're like, shit.

Well, and also having the right coaches to that can give you that information and can give you that high level technique because there's so many people out there that are talented people but you see their game just doesn't evolve. It just hits this level and it's sort of like the level that their coaches are capable of taking them to and then they don't go any further.

Well, I think it's amazing what's going on right now with MMA that people who are casual people like. Perfect example. The other day I was at my daughter's school and one of the dads came up to me and this dude was just a new fan. He'd only been watching MMA for the past year. And he was just rapid fire and questions at me. And he was obsessed with it. He's like, I was never in a martial arts when I was a kid. I watched a little bit of boxing. And he's like, but man, the UFC has just got me hooked. And he's like, one of the things that I love about it is how many different ways of fight can end. He's like, it's just, it's so crazy. Like, you'll watch a fight. And then all of a sudden, the guys getting choked, just like, what happened? And we were going over this about it. And this guy was a real smart guy. I think he's a hedge fund manager or something like that. But he was obsessed with all the possibilities. You know, and I think casual fans are starting to understand now that this is a very intellectual pursuit. If you don't have a strong mind and if you don't have this full range of options and possibilities inside the octagon, you're most likely limiting yourself.

But I think right now we're seeing like there's a pack, right? There's like the standard pack of athletes that are doing things in a certain way, and then there's a few that are moving away from the pack, and they're expanding the potential of MMA. I think you're one of those people. And I think you for sure are one of those coaches and there's a few guys out there. I know you don't like to hear it, but I'm gonna cruise as one of them. He's also doing it. We were talking about him today that like his style is so fucking odd.

Yeah, I don't necessarily think you can say it's technically bad because he's so fucking successful. And he knows how to do it. I just think it's not standard. You know like he doesn't like we're using remote deckers as an example. He does not throw kicks and punches like remote deckers. But what he does do is he throws him like dominant crews where he's moving like a pendulum back and forth and its footwork is so weird and he's overwhelming your mind with possibilities and he doesn't do the same thing twice. He mixes things up so well that he's a tough nut to crack.

When you were leading up to the fight, he was talking so much yet. And you could tell that you were getting so upset. But that is a big factor in fights, right? Because fights are so emotional. because it's one of the only sports in the world where your health is on the line like literally like this the option it's not like you might get in a car accident when you're racing cars that that's a possibility but the goal of MMA is for you to fuck up someone's body yeah

Yeah. He's a good good analyst because of that, you know. So like if you get a chance to fight him again for the title, Yeah, I bet which you're in line, right? Obviously. Well, you lost a very close decision to him and then you beat Rafael and Sunsohn, which in my opinion was we were talking about this today was an excellent example of how far you progressed because you guys had a really tough fight the first time you fought it was a close fight. This fight was not close. You just ran away from him. I'm right ran away with the the fight rather not ran away from him, but I mean, you were just it was a clear victory. like you were just we're so much more technical there were so many more options you were presenting to him and he was basically the same fighter that he was back then maybe slightly better but you're all way better fine appreciate him and we've worked hard we've heard long hours was really hard

What's interesting right now, too, is this new rule set that's going to go into place in January. You know, where they've changed this whole thing about down fighters, like being able to attach down fighters. You have that four points down now. So if you put a hand down on the ground and someone kicks you, that's totally legit now, which I think is long-time coming. I think that's a, I'm going to bum down that didn't get rid of the 126 elbow. But, you know, whatever.

Well, it's not more force. I mean, I think there's way more force in the elbow that comes down the side because it's more like a punch because you get your whole shoulder torques into it. Your shoulder dropping down is a weird movement. I mean, I guess there's some guys like Anderson Silva or, you know, yachts and pliers, some badass tie fighters that can generate ridiculous power with that, but I don't think it's any more than any other kind of. No. Absolutely not. No way. It's just some of the rules I think are a little bit archaic. I think, I think we all agree though, the gloves. Yes, sir. It's probably like, if there's going to be like one thing that needs to be changed, I mean, it would be really nice if we could all get together and figure out a way to make it. So there's less eye pokes.

Fuck the own pride. Just use those goddamn gloves.

I'm all over the place. No, they're dope, man. By the way, show everybody you're wallet.

I'm super impressed. I was always impressed with Trevor as a coach. I'm going to get a picture.

Yeah, it's just fun to see someone do something like that.

You guys are in Colorado now. You moved Colorado full time. You know, how much difference is it live in there? And what is it like now? Also, you're training it out to do it all the time.

Mexicans don't get tired. I don't know. It's a racist thing to say, but it's positive way. Tell you, Mexicans have a fucking incredible gas tank.

Have you ever tried one of those altitude tents? Those things that people sleep in?

Interesting. So what I had heard was that the best balance was training at sea level, but sleeping and living at altitude. I heard that as well.

I wonder if anybody does it where you live in San Bernardito, and then train up in Big Bear, and just keep going back and forth.

He used to live up there for his camps. He was one of the first MMA fighters to incorporate that, you know? Oh, boss.

I wonder if there's a difference between like when I think when they're studying how athletes perform, whether they sleep at a high altitude and train at low altitude, I wonder if there's a difference between the intensity level that MMA requires and the amount of like I don't think there's a sport in the world that requires you to train as much as MMA because there's so many different things you have to work on or as hard like we just hear a lot of NFL players that would learn them down in Denver.

That makes it fun to watch. You know, it's really kind of crazy when you think about like the 10-minute rounds that pride had and how deep that felt five-minute rounds are. Well, you definitely need it if you're a grappler. I mean, who the fuck's going to beat Damian Maya if ever rounds 10 minutes?

Yeah, there are a few masters who have, like, just really excel that one particular technique to the point where it gets ridiculous. Like, remember, Cody McKenzie was catching everybody with that McKenzie teen.

Well, then there was Paul Sass, man. Paul Sass, right? Like the triangle. 12 fights in a row by triangle. Everybody knew what was common. He couldn't do shit about it.

Maybe yeah, oh, maybe you've got a fucking grapple fucked again Yeah, that's my hope in thought at least Yeah, well, I'm a big Matt Brown fan, but I'm a busy man in my fan as well It's for me. It's it's weird You know because I'm a fan of a lot of guys and these guys often times fight each other and it's just like you just gotta appreciate the event and appreciate the results appreciate the sport But what's one of the cool things about MMA is that there are these outliers like this one trick pony like Damian Maya, but what a fucking trick. I mean, he can strike and Damian striking has gotten leaps and bounds better. It's one of the reasons why he's gotten so better at applying his due to it's because he's so much more comfortable with a stand up his distance is very good now. He understands striking really well now. that jujitsu, it's just so next level. Making a happen. Why do you run through a guy like Carlos, cond it like that?

And also goes to show you how fucking good Jake Shields is. Yeah. Oh, you're right.

People sleep on Jake Shields. Jake Shields beat him and essentially a grappling match. you know, and a lot of people forget, you know, Jake Shields was always a guy who kind of struggled with the stand up because he wasn't like an explosive guy who's just sort of like confident to stand up. Yeah, awkward, but again, he beat Tyron Woodley, the fucking Walter Way champion of the world beat him and essentially a stand up fire. So to Nate Markwart. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he he gets slept on. He's fighting fish now. They're gonna fight in the world series just fighting. That's a very good fight. Very very interesting fight.

I don't know when the last time he he tested positive after he fought Paul Harris. Oh, did he?

He tested positive for elevated testosterone.

Yeah. But back to like styles. It is so interesting that there are so many different styles. And there's so many different people like Wonderboy. There's one trick I love. And the other direction. You know, just fucking striking is this bizarre. And his style is like really a karate based almost like a sport karate style.

He's movement like his back and forth pivoting off the waist. Yeah. But he also, he does another thing that fucks with people is that front leg. His front leg is so nasty. When he fought Hendrix, he hit one of front leg side. to the body. And you can see Hendrix got stuck by. It was a hard shot. And he liked kind of acknowledged it. And then he got roundhouse kicked in the face with the same foot like right away.

That's easy to me. A dream fight is Damian Maya versus Wonder Boys. It's a complete opposite space. That's a dream fight. I want to see what the fight is like. I feel like now what we're watching to with Damian Maya is also we're watching this master who's 38.

It's one of those things where you got to wonder, like how much more sand is left in that hour class.

Yeah, I mean, fuck, Randy almost came out of retirement for Fedor.

I think they did us that on him where he got hit 13 times over the last four fights. No way Yes, and like the like it's just that's to and most of them are the map brown fight.

It's just fucking crazy how like technical he is when it comes to his jujitsu.

Yeah, well, Nate caught him early in his career, too, though. You were really understood to stand up game. Yeah. Yeah. People sleep on Nate Marquard, too, man. You know, people forget how goddamn good Nate is. Especially in his prime. Yes, sir. And you watched that time and really fight when you fought in the strike force. He looked really good then. That you were the nation that he hit him with was like fucking a video game.

And I hear Shane Carwin's making a comeback.

He's free agent. Yeah. So you can go wherever he wants.

Yeah, he has some pretty significant back injuries, right?

That guy played football at a high level for a long time. You know all that crashing big dudes smashing in each other.

Yeah, and if you can get a good camp like that or everybody has their ego and check and you all go together.

How do you control yourself when it comes to like the amount of work you do? Do you monitor your heart rate? Do you check, like, do you have any sort of markers that you check to make sure that you're not over-trained?

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Yeah, that's the other thing to take into consideration when people talk about athletes and people talk about people that exercise and are fit and want to follow healthy diet. There's such a different caloric requirement for someone like you who's training, what do you train two or three times a day?

Yeah. So when you're getting down to 145 or 135 rather, how difficult does that for you? Like, what are you walking around that?

So that's not that much. 15 pounds. Like, it seems like a lot to poke people listening probably, but we know guys who are losing 25, 30, which I think is too much.

Have you ever thought that if you didn't do the high-perature feed training and you didn't do all the power training and you just did more aerobic, like you might drop down to 145 naturally and then might be able to cut to 125.

Because I know he's talking about doing a super fight. I mean, he's interesting position because he's really essentially cleared out his weight class. I mean, he's fighting Wilson Hayes and Wilson's a very tough fighter.

No, I think you're right, but I read something today. I forgot about that, but I read something today about him fighting Wilson. So maybe it was just an older article or something like that, or maybe it was confused. But my point is, even if he fights the winner of the show, we're good luck to those guys. Yeah. Good luck. You're fighting a fucking human buzzer.

And he's, in my opinion, one of the best examples, or the best example ever of a guy who has so many possibilities. His language, the language of fighting, his language has the richest vocabulary of any fighter. I mean, the way he fucked Sahuto up in a clench with those knees to the body, Like, who does it better than that? I never seen a guy. He did a good break a guy down better with niece to the body like that. You'd have to go to Anderson versus Rich Franklin. Oh, nice. Good call. But that was like almost like a more brutality oriented thing. I mean, when Anderson did, it was just grab a hole to you and just round you ragged all you with with When he was doing it, when Mindy Mouse was doing it, it was almost like, it was crazy to watch. It's like Jesus Christ. These things are coming. They're landing like that. He's firing them off with no hesitation. There's no wind up. There's no exertion. Everything seems effortless. It looks like he could do it all day. It looks like a real fucking problem when you're in there with him.

Yeah, that was good. So Hudo really struggles to get done in 25. That's right here.

Yeah. I find it, yeah, he may be, I mean, maybe like the exact example we're talking about with TJ, like maybe they're like very similar in size.

Yep, they made him fight at one thirty five. That's right. That's what I'll fight at one thirty five and he showed them that he could make twenty five again.

Yeah, benefit is also one of those guys that if you saw him like in a silhouette, if you couldn't see who he was, if you couldn't see any detail, but you saw him move around, you would know it was him. The way he holds his hands, the way he holds his hands, like everything. He's got a very distinct technique.

What do you got here for notes, dude?

Well, it's interesting to see you really flourish as a coach too, because very few fighters that I'm here taking to it the way you have where not only were you a very good fighter and excellent fighter, but you've you've surpassed that as a coach.

Isn't it funny that that passion and that intensity and focus has a negative connotation? People call it OCD.

Yeah. Yeah. It worked for me. But why why is that like necessarily negative? You know, it's not.

Oh, Guapo, just text.

Boss Rooten ladies gentlemen former UFC heavyweight champion one of the baddest man that ever lived I Know Carter is gonna fight just cuz I'll aggressive he is I remember like the first time ever going to Duane's house and watching his little two-year old pride stomp his dog

A two-year-old kid stomping a pit bull.

I had two females that fought to the death. Oh, that's right. I heard that. My mom was a dead dog and my living room.

Was healthy or had to talk to her? She was fucked up. I put her down after that. She killed another dog, too. She was crazy. Rescue dog. I got her a little too late. I got her when she's about nine, ten months old and she had already been indoctrinated into the world of violence.

Yeah, there's in females super protective.

Yeah, they they genuinely love our kids Yeah, but females together like they just they're like chicks together like try try having two wives good luck with that shit

This is just something about females. They just, two men can, they get together and one of them will decide or two male dogs. One of them will decide, like, okay, that guy's the king and I'll just fucking cow her when he grabs it. But females, they fucking, they never decide who the alpha is. They just go, no, that bitch got lucky last time. We're going to get it.

So much sorrow. It is so true women always want to tell you who's sick Who's got a problem? Oh, she's got chronic fatigue syndrome.

Well, they say that there's like a natural sort of evolutionary path that women get together and talk a lot like that's one of the reasons why gossip exists so much with women because women would be you know gathering food and talking and that was one of the ways they figured out who was full of shit and who wasn't where's the man would be out hunting and they'd be like shot the

Yeah, that's why we call it value. It's also why men they value quiet men who know when to be quiet. It's important and also they don't value men who wear shiny shit and are really loud and have a lot of junk on and stuff like that because those assholes would get and they would look fuck up hunting parties. Interesting.

Right, I see me saying it was supposed to treat them as an equal in the battlefield. That's it. Protect them.

Well watch the keeper. Well it's strange times because we're asking women to take on a lot of the traits and characteristics of men. You know it's and some of them want to and I understand that but some for some they feel like they're required to and I don't necessarily know if that's what they want. You know, but I think society wants a woman to be a breadwinner. They want women to contribute and compete with men in the workplace in a lot of ways and a lot of women want to do that quality. Yeah. And then you like when you see that and then when it comes to the military, it's very difficult to say like a woman shouldn't be on the battlefield because then all of a sudden you say, well, what do you sexist? You know, but you know, it's not traditionally a female option.

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Right? Yeah. I guess so. Why was it something about a rack nephobia where they were thinking that a rack nephobia which is a fierce biter and a bunch of different like snake phobias and much different phobias might literally be the memory of your ancestors like someone you know in like someone your ancestors know died in front of them got bit by spider or they almost died and they got bit by spider and that shit is just hardwired in your DNA. Because some people will see a fucking spider and they can't move. They freak out.

When you meditate, they come and fuck with you.

Maybe he sends to your chief. You know for sure that for sure the female maybe he was not a. Is that sense a boss or a person who is meditating in the yard?

You know what's got a really interesting system is Mark Henry. Mark Henry who trains at some Barbosa, Frankie Edgar, he's fantastic trainer. Like one of the most underrated guys in the business. He, Rashad Evans told me that he will name combinations after his daughter. Like Rashad doesn't have certain things. And they changes them with every camp with every camp, the names change. So no one's ever going to be able to pattern you. The other corners are not going to have any fucking idea what he's calling out.

Yeah, we did the boss combo today. When you're trying to remember all these different things and put them out like the Ramon deckers, there's like 50 shots in a row.

Yeah, and possible before you got here, we were talking about the level of MMA right now. So fascinating because there's so much depth in people getting so much better and there's so many different styles and it just seems like such an exciting time right now for MMA.

But to back up my Mexican theory. Yeah. I talked crazy Bob Cook and crazy Bob Cook said came will take like a month off or two months off get hurt, you know, something like that has to rest up an injury not trained come back and I work everybody.

We're talking about Gilbert Melendez and other one. Yeah, right. A lot of Mexicans have crazy fucking cardio man.

It's a purpose to it. We're talking about how interesting it's been, how Dwayne has transitioned so well in the becoming a trainer. Was that a challenge for you going from being a great fighter to being a great trainer?

No. But sometimes it's difficult if you don't have the right student, right? If your student is not responding.

We need to get a full heart listening. Get a bullhorn the UFC should allow bull horns. No, I did that.

And what about just like a tube, like a roll of toilet paper or something?

The reason why brought that up about training fighters is because there's an interesting parallel between you two guys both great fighters and both wind up having great students you having Dwayne as a student and Dwayne now having TJ's and a bunch yeah, I mean there's there's a lot to that

Yeah, I'm sure. And for fighters, it's really a problem when you build a relationship with the wrong trainer. And then you got to leave that guy. And you know, you have this tight bond with someone that doesn't really know enough. Yeah, that's all going yeah, I've seen that many times and when they leave people get super put her it gets it be gets to be a real problem.

Yeah, it doesn't mean they suck as a human being. It just means that in that moment, that was the wrong thing to do, or they didn't execute it properly, or, you know, yeah, then I have to be on point to as far as the trainer with the fighters and coaching.

When you also have to know your fighters capabilities, exactly. When you have a great racehorse, everything becomes so much more interesting because you have all these options.

This is very few things that is painful is listening to bad corner work. Yeah. Oh, that's fun.

Did you watch the fights this weekend? Yeah, I did. What did you think about steeping out there? That was crazy. That was crazy.

He's so composed like in Brazil when he fought for Britio when he's like in a stair now. He's just dead faced. He's got his own dead face. It's not like a fade or dead face or cane dead face. He's got his own dead face. But those guys that can just stay completely calm. You know, in that incredible environment of being there in Brazil, 45,000 plus people screaming for Fabrizio overdue when he just shuts his lights out.

He's a bad motherfucker. to see if someone got into his head the way like you and Dominic were going after each other or the way Connor got into all those heads. That was a good point. That was a master class and fucking with someone's head. I mean, Connor took all those completely out of his element where he was just so frazzled by a time they actually met each other inside the Octagonist.

Did you ever use any psychological training, did you ever talk to a sports psychologist, rainflank founders, or all self-talk?

Well, it's one of the things that we were talking about earlier was the amount of fighting that is mental. And the amount that is your attitude and how you feel about things and how you go into things and just your enthusiasm, like Travis Brown, we were talking about Travis Brown, who earlier in his career was this fucking stone cold killer. I mean, he had all his crazy footwork. He'd throw a lot of kicks. And like, man, we knocked out Stephens true with that Superman punch, right? Damn, he was so unpredictable and wild. I was like, this motherfucker can be the heavyweight champ. I could just give him some time and then he moved to Jackson's. He's training at a great camp. But he just doesn't seem, I mean, maybe it's a few losses in a row. It doesn't seem to have that fire anymore.

Why would you? Yeah, but it's so rare that you find the perfect person. Like if you're with Johnny McFuckstick in Columbus, Ohio and he's a shitty coach and you've been with him forever and you got this some weird bond with them and then for us, the hobby wants to train you and you're like, god damn.

Everybody runs into Bass Root and right off the bat.

Just straight everywhere if you can find something better, you know, because the perfect examples Duke Rufus who's a great coach and Pettis and if he Pettis started training at Jackson, he just wanted new looks. He wanted different things. He wanted to mix things up and he had some great success.

Well, there's a small handful, maybe half a dozen or more of really truly elite camps right now. You know, there's American top team. Of course, there's a few that you could go over, but of places where you really kind of can't go wrong. It's really just a matter of finding the right combination for you, too, right? I mean, some camps are more grappling heavy and you might be more of a striker. We've seen that happen, too. You know, the guys just kind of get the wrong formula.

Wonder Boy is a great example of that. You started training with Wydeman, who was a great wrestler, and it just completely changed his confidence and it's stand up. And now he's so loose standing up. You're getting to see the same Wonder Boy that was, I mean, he was like 57 and oh, it was a kickboxing.

It's amazing. Crazy like that. And you see those skills now because good luck taking that guy down. Correct. You know, he's getting molded by Chris Wydeman all the time. Wydeman who's a big 185. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

We might also not understand where you're in vulnerable positions for submissions. A lot of wrestlers are still shoot that double with the neck on the outside. They just haven't figured the distance out or the difference in the technique out.

It's also interesting because TJ has that wrestling background as well and then I think that's a big factor in his success because he's incorporating all of your techniques and your techniques and then on top of that you've got that elite of athleticism. and then the wrestling base. So you've got awesome take down defense and take down and also I really firmly believe there's something about wrestlers that fucking grind of dieting and starving yourself and dehydrating yourself and the mental toughness that you get from certain wrestlers.

When you're training a team elevation, you're doing wrestling practice. Are you doing strictly wrestling? Are you putting wrestling shoes on? And you're doing like full on wrestling, you know, a competition between your teammates. Are you doing

Is there a benefit to having wrestling shoes on though because you're not going to fight with them on?

So it's a difference between like grappling with a ghee and no ghee.

That's interesting. Does it, um, was it, would it be okay if you did it with no shoes on and your opponent did it with shoes on? Because that way you would have the slipperyness of being barefoot.

It's got to be a similar situation to wearing gloves, right? Like when trying to limp arm out of certain positions, you have those, you know, in your neck, it's really hard to finish the gloves on.

Some people think that it would be a safe sport with our gloves.

And the breaking ends. We have a you would learn a lot more effective striking like you really couldn't just unload. on a guy and just hit anything.

Yeah, I mean, that's sort of a lot of karate and traditional martial arts guys believe. They believe that those gloves are actually giving you the sort of false sense of of your abilities. You know, because your, your wrists are all wrapped up, your hands are all wrapped up. You know, good times.

One of the interesting things about MMA is how we're still kind of learning and there's no right approach for everybody. Everybody's approach is definitely their approach for Damian Maya. It's going to be different than the approach for Wonderboy. It's going to be different than your approach. And it's so difficult to figure out who's right. I mean, it's really based on the success of the past.

A lot more chose and a lot more kicks. You got to take away the gloves. There we go. Yeah. I mean, it's so much easier to sink chokes and so much harder to defend.

Now, when it comes to, like, if you look at football or baseball or any professional sport, they pretty much have protocols that are very similar. Like, most teams have pretty similar protocols as far as like training and how they prepare their athletes. But with MMA, it's wildly different. Like, how who decides, like, for you, who decides what when you're doing strength and conditioning, when you're doing hill sprints, when you're doing sparring, like, how do you guys work that out?

Yeah, it's just it's the trial and error and the learning as you go along is so interesting because you know you lose a fight and then you go, what did we fuck up on? Where do we do better? And then you know, maybe you know you get that Joe Silver call like, hey, you know, we have a fight in eight weeks. You ready to take it?

Yeah, we had a fight for that one. We had a fight for that one. Mr. Ogan, thank you so much. I'm telling people we're hating on him, how fast is chaos in history? There's a lot of fucking, a lot of debate. I was like, the referee, it's wrong. It was a wrong call. They were saying it was like 11 seconds or something like that. Like bullshit. That was sick. We played it over and over and over again.

Don't you think it's kind of data-trunking? You've seen so many fights, you've grown so many people, you have to see things. And you don't even know what you're seeing and you're just like, oh, you know what? Sometimes like you'll see a guy like I call it all the time. I'll see a guy lift his heel up and when he's about to go right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you just know, yes, for whatever reason. Twist a little bit. If you go, you know what I'm going to get going. Yeah.

It's crazy when people throw back kicks. Well, like the probably the most ill-advised back kick of all time is Chris Wyman versus Luke Rock. Maybe the most ill-advised back kick.

I think maybe there's Luke had been knocked out by V Tour right. Yeah, with a wheel kick. So maybe I'm just guessing the Chris decided throw a wheel kick, but it was like you can see it come in. It wasn't fast.

No, I believe he's moving. I was believe it was the same thing. He was moving towards Rock Holden. I don't remember the interaction. But I remember the tour and through it before and it was the first time it ever seen him throw a wheel kick. He threw it right before against Rock Holden, missed and he threw it again and landed. that was T.R.

He's broken his hand so many times that I think he just started concentrating more on kicks. You know, let's just see that. Made a big difference.

know how to really deliver a technique for your attempt. Like the first time I ever saw Kane Velask is through a wheel kick ever was in the Travis Brown fight and he looked fucking perfect. He was like, was this guy been hiding this forever? Like he never threw a wheel kick and all of a sudden it's a perfect wheel kick. But it's probably because he had practiced it and drilled it to the point where he's got it down. It's like, all right, time to unleash the wheel kick.

Yeah, but it's just it's interesting when you see a guy like out of nowhere. Yes, or pull a technique that you've never seen before.

I wonder what the next technique that we're going to see that we couldn't believe someone's pulling off inside the object. Yeah.

I saw some of the Atlanta clothes line recently.

I saw someone do that and I was thinking of you because you've talked about that so many times. I walked to a bag.

Yes.

Well, also, you know, Eddie Bravo and I had a conversation about this, like when you hit a guy with a head kick, a lot of times it's landing on the back of the hat. Yeah. A lot of times the food coming over the shoulder, a lot of times like the the food is impacting the instep is hitting the back of the head before anything.

Yeah, I'm one of the best head kick chaos I've ever seen that came from the back of the head was Ernesto who's versus Maurice Smith. Did you ever see that? Jamie find that because it's such a crazy combination the way who's gets his leg up they're in the middle of a clinch and Morris, I believe, picks his knee up and host comes over the top and down behind his head.

He's got to knock him out. Let this last weekend we saw. Yancy Maderos fought Sean Spencer. Spencer blocked the kick and he took it right to the head. Check this out real quick. This is Mori Smith versus Ernesto Huss. Play the whole thing so you can see the combination. See boom! Look how he does it in the clench with the knee.

He started with that at all. So when he was able to bring it up and around like that, too. It was crazy.

That's also where like flexibility is so critical. like there's no more important thing when it comes to kicking technique than flexibility. Because if you don't have the flexibility your body's all stiff and it doesn't move right and there's no one's gonna do that unless you're flexible.

Who is that one Croatian dude that kept knocking him out? That fucking guy hits.

That's right.

That's a hard part of the world.

I think to this day the greatest stare down of all time was Krokop versus Van Delay. Van Delay would mean mug everybody and it would work. He looked at Krokop and Krokop looked at him like motherfucker. I'll cut your head off. That was the second fight. That was the second fight. But in the first fight, I mean, you never saw the eyes of a killer more than that one time. He was ahead of an anti-terrorist squadron.

Yeah, not only that, your strong suit is striking, and you're taking on one of the most explosive structures to ever compete in MMA. And a guy who was a legit K1 level striker. Yeah. But he was like, you know, it's interesting how that style really worked really well. Like here it is. Like, look at this stare now.

I'm getting to fuck it stare down. I mean, that's got to be unterifying, and I'm being there. Yeah, he's not as legit as fuck. He's not believing in Van der Leigh very much. But it's interesting because Crocob was successful in K-1, but he was never the elite of the elite. Right, agreed. But his style that explosive one shot style translated so well to MMA, whereas maybe like Ernesto's style would not have translated that well because he was more technical. Yeah, he would set things up more.

But there's levels to everything, right? And there's levels to kicking, and Edson Barbosa switch kick. That's one of those things where I watched that, and I got what the fuck? I've never seen anybody switch kick that fast.

I would say him and then I would say recruit this. Such a pioneer, too. Yeah. He was doing that back when there was really no one at that level. I mean, he was at such a high level. Such a wild dude, too. Again, Mexican.

Because Rodriguez who was his brother-in-law was Next kit, that's worth it.

Yeah, Jason Wellness knocked out Simon Marcus. Oh, oh, and Marcus was lighting them up early in the fight like 44 and 2 right Marcus showed that That was the tournament too. That was the first fight to that tournament and chilling fight. more times after that fucking crazy fight, but the the Wilmus fight Simon Marcus was lighting them up man with more time Wilmus is more of a boxer style and he was moving in and he had some some success with combinations but then he caught him at the end of the round away with a shot and Simon Marcus was kind of playing with him and lowered his hands with smile and he got hit with a couple of shots and the referee gave him a real questionable standing egg count. And the the commentators are screaming Joseph Valtolini was screaming like that's ridiculous. They shouldn't do this is that that's not a the eight counts. No good. He wasn't about to go down. There's no standing eight count and kickboxing like why they count them like the same that the ropes held them up. Then the next round will this just fucking drop them legit and hurt them bad and then drop them again and finish them off. For over.

We're in it. December 10th, right? God damn, that's gonna be nuts. Butter harr is one of the scariest motherfuckers ever once in the face of the planet.

How did Jill? I guess he's got money. Oh, that's right.

Well, not good. Obviously, I'm a huge fan of MMA. I think the MMA is the most exciting sport in the world, but there's some things that you see in kickbox that you just don't see in MMA because there's no threat of the takedown. So you see these wild technical exchanges. In my opinion, we need more of that. You know, it's not enough, it's not enough eyes on it. Just don't think enough people are paying attention.

It's for nominals.

I love glory, but I like lion fight better. I like traditional martial arts. I just feel like glory would be even better if they just went more time. Because why take away elbows? Why no elbows?

See, I understand what you're saying about elbows, but part of me is like look. It's a striking contest. Why would you eliminate one of the best weapons in striking, which is elbows? And lion fight has these, I mean, look, they get cut up, like for sure, like, do you see Gaston Belombius is one of his face ninja? I mean, he gets cut the fuck up, his opponents cut the fuck up, they're blasting each other with spinning elbows, but it's fun as hell to watch.

I just feel like there's no reason to take out those clinch battles and there's no reason to take out those elbows because the guys who are good at those clinch battles, you know, they just start fucking blasting each other with niece to the body and it has a significant toll and then the elbow battles that they have inside the clinch. To me, it's a really important part of stand-up striking.

Yeah, I think if we didn't have those guys, we wouldn't know that. We would have only the level of striking that we see in MMA. And I think, you know, when you go and you watch like a Ramon Decker's fuck, you know, and you watch like him and his prime, you realize, oh, okay, this is possible. Like there's there's levels to this fucking thing.

Yeah, he's probably a fucking savage. Mm-hmm. There's a picture of him on his Instagram page. He's like 50. He's fucking jerk. He's so funny.

Yeah, Jordan is a very, very talented guy, but he had so many fights, you know, as a young man. I mean, I think he was only 24 or 25 and he retired, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Get lost fruit and settle down. If I'd say with you, you never get in your spare hell. What did you think about Cowboys, Seroni deciding no more sparring? He doesn't spar. He just drills. He's talking about that and looked sensational in his last fight.

Yeah, I think cowboy also had an issue with cutting the weight, too. Yes, sir. He looks cut 70. Cutting weight was just too much for him. At 17, he's a fucking assassin.

And the technique, the technical aspect of it is so, there was no wind up, there's no muscle behind it, everything's just perfect. Hey, kid, it was just God.

They're trying to put cowboy in some other boxes. He's just fucking wild man. Who's the weirdest guy you've ever worked with, where you're like, Jesus, I don't even know if I can fucking help this guy.

Well, you guys had personality conflicts for whatever reason, you know, no blame, but whatever they were, you guys had.

I will I do before you fought Hannibal out. I was eating lunch in Vegas at the hotel. I had a bunch of my friends with me. We're all getting ready for the fight. Duane comes over. Hey man, come on sit down. How you feeling? Boom, sits down. It's what we're gonna do. He's gonna say the whole thing is movement switches to get to the side. The whole thing a brow browser style is his style. He's gonna do this and he just was like a fucking hundred miles an hour.

That's why you're so fucking good, you know, and I don't like the term OCD man obsessed. I've dedicated my life to the arts. OCD is those weirdos who washed our hands a hundred times for you to have. This is a different thing. This is just, it's a positive obsession.

I love it. Yeah, pretty much everybody this table has. Your method, though, is so uniquely doing and I really love your system. I think that's so critical is that you've taken all your stuff and you've written it out and you put it into like this system. where you can really learn. And that's something I learned from Rob came into. Rob came in, who's amazing. He has a system. And one of the things that I learned when I was training with him was like, this guy has this system the same way a lot of Jiu Jitsu guys have a system. And it's like his system of breaking things down and moving and strikes that it's all, it's all, it has a pattern to it. And you could follow this pattern as a progression to it.

Well, I'm glad you're around, dude, because it makes it interesting, and there's such a suck of fucking exciting time for M&A, so it's just so much good shit is going on, Bob. You loving doing that show, the M&M show?

But so before you got here, we were talking about eye pokes and we showed the Fabrice overdume Travis Brown eye pokes. Did you see that? Have you seen it? Yeah, I heard about it. Yeah, fucking crazy. Like knuckle deep into February shows. Yeah. What do you think could help that? What do you think could fix that?

holding paths. That's what happens.

Red card which impried would cost you a 10% a year 10% yeah, I think the point deduction I think one point every time I think you know no warnings for an iPod because even if you take a I think the gloves to but I think that if you even if you take a point away from a guy like if you warn them like that person you poked in the eye is still damaged by that Yeah, so even if he says it's an accident like it doesn't matter one point. You know it's an accident. You know if it's obviously an accident. Both of your fingers going to someone's eye and you know it's going to cause a point everyone is going to curl their knuckles back.

I hate to believe anybody's doing it on purpose, but someone must be doing it on purpose.

There's a few fights we go. Ooh, I gotta wonder why not. That's purpose. On purpose, brother. Do you see, check Kongovers is Krokop. Oh, yeah. Whale even in the sack. Wham? Like a more than once means it was several. Several good blows.

Well, with check, I believe it was knees in the clinch. Oh, I think it was just right.

Eddie Bravo thinks you should be able to hit a guy in the back of the head. He thinks that when you take a guy's back, that when the old days of MMA, when a guy at two hooks in, he almost didn't go to the arena, he could choke. He just blasted a guy in the back of the head with elbows.

Yeah. Yeah. What's his name? Striker. Yeah. A bit from Holland. Yeah. Striker. Spikers. Spikers. Spikers. Spikers. Yeah. Judo guy in Duel. There's currently that guy who was fucking with Hands-out. He called his room. I love Hands-out. He called his hotel room all night. So Hands-out was like, oh, okay. All right. Did you see what he stepped on his face at the end? Yeah. Step on his face after he smashed him. Yeah, that's what guys would do. They would take someone's back. I remember half Gracie fought somebody. I forget who it was, but he got a hook sin and just boom boom boom right to the base of the skull.

Well, here is here's Hanzo. Oh nice. Oh, this is this is actually okay. Look at that cage.

So he gets his bags. He flattens him out and then here comes boom boom boom boom Yeah, I mean now this is that is the way to open up that choke man You can't defend once someone starts raining those elbows down and you know you can cover that shit up all you want now. He's tapping. No, watch this way.

That was a good one That was, I think the same event where Marillo Bustamante fought Tom Erickson and they fought for like fucking 90 minutes. It was one of those crazy fights. It was like 45 minute fight I think it was honestly. Wow. It was a crazy fight because they didn't have like an ending to those things. They didn't, you know, you just fought.

They did rounds. I don't think Marillo and Erickson did rounds. I think it was just one long, I don't remember. But I remember like Erickson at the time. He's like the forgotten heavyweight. Like when he was in his prime, he was fucking terrifying because he was a natural 300 pound gold villa. an enormous wrestler and he could hit so fucking hard. I remember he knocked out Kevin Randallman. He hit Kevin Randallman when we were like, oh, left hook and knocked him out, but I was like, Jesus Christ. He was one of the scariest guys for his time, but just like kind of missed the window. You know, like, he was really scary in the early days of MMA. Nobody wanted to fight him.

Yeah, you had a towel twice. Yeah. Linnens was like nothing happened. I didn't have. Yeah. And they believe him.

Both of those guys are the gold standard. Yep. It's herb Dean and John McCarthy. That's the gold standard. I mean, you know, who is really good before he went away for selling weed? Josh Rosenberg. Yeah, I did my last fight. He is very good.

Well, he went away for selling weed and he had a kind of a little bit of an arsenal. I don't know if you were legal drugs or something.

Well, what the fuck is that? It's just helping the world. The real problem was I believe guns were involved and that's one thing. But yeah, like you're going to sell weed illegally. You've got to protect it.

It's unfortunate. All things unfortunate. But he was a very good referee. Yep. Very good referee. Very good martial artist, too.

Yeah, I was going to bring up to you. What did you think about the Travis Brown for Braceover Doomfight where we're Travis called time like he got his finger jammed? Fabricio threw a punch and Travis's finger apparently broke and there's some photos of it now online it was it's fucking nasty like shows you how tough Travis is that he continued with his finger smashed and it was a compound fracture with the bone broke through the skin that's one picture but there's some even better ones that he released today well you could see it after the fight it was a nasty break but So it was a weird thing where Fabricio threw this punch and he threw like one of those chuckle-dell style over hands that come over the top and it landed on the fingers of Travis and snapped one of his finger. So Travis calls time. What you really can't do is like my fingers fucked up because time like you like oh, I scroll up though, and you see it the actual opening yeah Here comes the boom.

That's right, you did that boss.

It's a really good fighters. Yeah. That smoke cigarettes.

He's such a freak though. I would see him in the corner with a tank top on and the gold chains and a sunglasses. He's lovein' side. Big smile, this face. Suns out, guns out. Yeah. Big ass belt buckle.

It wasn't there like an issue with him gambling against one of your fighters.

He's got nasty moatite. Oh, dude. He's so good. Very good moatite. He's good. I love the guy man. It's a problem man. People get they did that gambling bug. That's a scary bug. That's a very scary.

What if he gave you four? He won five and gave you four. That's what he's supposed to do. Hey, listen, dog. You know, and I know that you came in a five little fucked up. So he was a taste. No. Given the majority of it, right? Not even half, like most of it. He still won a thousand bucks.

Yeah, your habit is trained like a motherfucker. Teach like a motherfucker and get obsessed with that. So I don't get obsessed with blackjack.

Trust me. I enjoy gambling on fights. I used to do it all the time. When I first started working for the UFC, I would gamble on fights. And then I was like, can I get trouble for this? I was like, I wasn't sure. I was like, I can't affect the outcome.

I just don't want people to get mad at me though.

He's so odd. But awesome.

Yeah, no, he's a, he's a really, really dedicated guy. You know, Diego Sanchez is a fucking warrior. And he's a guy who's won more third rounds of fights where he lost the first two. The Martin Campman fight on their feet. Oh, yeah. His face was hanging off of his skull. And he's chasing Martin Campman. Martin Campman who fought at 185 was a big fucking guy for 170. And Diego's just I just run it out of a mask of blood. Dave, the Jake Ellenberger fight. The end of the fight, he's on Ellenberger's back beating the shit out of him. That's right. Lost the first two rounds comes back in the third, like a fucking savage. If every fight was 100 rounds long, Diego Sanchez might be undefeated. Max, you're good.

I mean, you think about who had more endurance and Julio Cesar Chavez, right?

Yeah, that's a good point because a lot of people don't realize how high Mexico City is I didn't know the first time I went there. I just did a fucking elliptical machine there and I was like, holy shit.

And Colorado was 2,000 feet below Mexico City, which is crazy.

Do you remember Ben Rothberg or Mark Hunt in Colorado? Oh, yeah, yes, sir.

He was died. Yeah, they both almost died.

Yeah, period. I talked to a guy who was an endurance athlete who lives in Boulder and he told me you have to live there for three years. He said to reach the full potential. He's like for for those guys. When you're talking by bikers like or triathletes or something like that, like for them every last second is in but because you're doing the same activity over and over and over again. It's not like fighting or your creativity or explosiveness. All these different things coming in the factor is just biking. You're just biking. You're just running. You're just you're just swimming. These are the things you're doing. And so every little second, every little ounce of extra endurance. So they optimize everything in that regard. And he was saying to really hit your full potential, you need to live at altitude and train an altitude for three years.

Yeah, it's crazy for people who don't live there to take fights out out to do. It really is. Especially with fights fighters can't afford, like if you're training for a fight in Mexico City, you can't afford to go anywhere. I mean, if you're on the undercard, you're making, you know, what's like the lowest paid guys in the UFC? 1000.

When you're talking about your own personal O2 trainer, when you put it in your mouth, you have like different filters on to a stronger structure.

Oh, all use a yeah. Wow, so like those masks that you wear that control in and out.

That was the competition. But so it's just something that just controls in and then you can breathe out with your own mouth. Like so you breathe in through it and then when you breathe out, how does it work when you breathe out freely? How does it work?

That's really it.

So it's a wrap it up in the morning. That's for you for your insight. So that's all you're doing is a 30 repetitions. That's it.

It's it's incredible you can't do it 20 percent in how and how long how much time

We're looking at a video for folks who just listen to this. Yeah. We're looking at a video on Boss Rooten O2 Trainer, which is online on YouTube, right? Is it just O2 Trainer? What is the era? O2Trader.com.

Oh, okay. So the site crash because we swamped it. We swamped your site. I love the flap, though. That's amazing too. I'm buying one of these.

We got to end this podcast anyway, but I'll show you in the back. Because I got to get the fuck out of here. Boss Rudy, you're a fucking gem of a human being. I guess it's a pleasure to know you and honor to make your acquaintance. Same I could say for both of you gentlemen. It was an honor to train with you today bang Ludwig you're a fucking genius and TJ you're a bad motherfucker. Yeah, wait to see you fight for the title again and I really I really hope it is soon and Thank you everybody. That's it this fucking podcast's over. She hot This episode is brought to you by Dr. Squatch. I'm going to let you in on a secret. If you want to be more confident, you have to start taking care of yourself. And a great way to do that is use Dr. Squatch, especially with their new private hygiene products.