Transcript for #936 - Colin Moriarty

A lot.

Yeah. Yeah. First of all, thank you so much. My pleasure.

He's been an amazing figure in my life just in the last lesson even a month. He kind of was like my savior when like everyone was, you know, kicking me while I was down. He was the one that kind of reached a handout. And so I owe him a great deal.

Yeah, not really true if you leave the gaming industry, but rather condemned in the gaming industry for sure. Outside of that, people, I think normal everyday people that don't have an axe to grind about literally everything, found it, you know, read it, maybe grow under, maybe laugh, and then keep going about their day like a normal person.

Yeah, I mean, it's not even a good joke. And, you know, yeah, I heard you and Jim Norton talking about it. By the way, that video that someone clipped that out and put it up on some YouTube channel, that's like a, that video is like going to be a relic in my family forever. Everyone was like, I can't believe this is what is going on. This is so great. So I really do appreciate you stepping up when I got your DM by the way on Twitter. I was like, this is, I'm, what an amazing turn of events this has been for me. So I really am a appreciative of you again. I just want you to know about it. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Stop saying that you make me uncomfortable. I'm sorry. But at the same time, you know, I was in bed with my girlfriend actually when I wrote it. And I had showed it to her and I was like, it's kind of funny. I just kind of stupid. And she laughed. She's an ER nurse and she works the overnight shift. So she was just getting in the bed as I was getting up. And she's like, yes, funny. Then we didn't really think twice about it. I sent it. I got in the shower. I went about my day. And then when I got to work, I realized that it was a much bigger deal than I had thought. And it was, and then everything fell apart and then was rebuilt very quickly.

Yeah, I found it. I've co-founded the company. Yeah. I owned a piece of it. And you resigned because of that? Yeah, yeah. Other reasons, too, but I mean, that was definitely the straw that broke the cowles back for me. Yeah.

Yeah, I was just, I felt like, yeah.

Yeah, I agree. And I say also that if a person that wasn't a self-described like moderate conservative or libertarian sent that joke, it also wouldn't have gotten the firestorm. That's the thing, Joe.

I think in this time of the community, maybe in a different place, but not in the gaming industry, which is almost completely hyper liberal. So I've had a target on my back for years, and that's I think kind of the point that's lost on some people is that this was just an opportunity. No one was offended by this joke. No one was a gas like I said on Rubin, and the second time I was on there, I said like no one was crying in their shower, losing sleep, tossing and turning over the show and was. Well, I hope so, because that's what we should find that person in that person and study them in a lab. But to me, I was like, no, this is, I mean, it was clear a few hours later when I finally realized what was happening. I'm like, this is, they're in for the kill now. This is, this is, they found their way to get me.

Because, you know, I live in San Francisco, I've lived there for 10 years. I was born and raised on the long island, but I went to college in Boston, and then I moved to San Francisco. And it is this cartoonish liberal is everyone thinks it is. So it's, it's, And the gaming industry is there, the gaming media, the people that write about games and cover them and do all that kind of stuff, they're largely there. And it's a huge echo chamber. They don't like when people penetrate the echo chamber. And I made a name for myself in the industry over years. I was the senior editor of the biggest gaming website in the world for years. The website is IGN.com. And I was the senior editor there, and I made a name for myself not only with criticism and with long-form pieces, but basically I was writing pieces about political correctness in 2011, and 2012, people going after game developers, people going after all these things, and me kind of standing up and saying, this is an okay, this character assassination. A good example for everyone out there that doesn't know games, there's this game called Borderlands 2. And one of the developers was giving an interview about it. And this was back in I've been 2011. He said something to the nature of this mode, this particular mode in the game is accessible for everyone. It's like a girlfriend mode if you want your girlfriend to come play. This was like a, he said, he insinuated that women can't play games and don't know how to play games or by using the term girlfriend mode. And people went after this guy and tried to get them. You know, and I wrote this piece saying like, what the hell is everyone doing? This guy just is trying to explain something. He's not a sexist. Why do you make these assumptions based on this one thing about him? And why do you want to ruin someone? And that's the whole thing. They want to ruin people. So I was outspoken about this and I was outspoken from my supportive Mitt Romney and I was outspoken about my support for Gary Johnson and my outspoken. So they don't like that. They don't like that stuff. And I think that's pretty clear now.

Yes, it's an orthodoxy. It's a complete and utter orthodoxy. And it's what's so kind of nice about this, like the unintended consequence that I think is the silver lining of the dark cloud is people from the outside now saw first hand like what I had been saying for a long time which was like I was kind of on the fringe I was kind of being pushed out and I got that literally thousands of people tweeting I mean Facebook messaging me and doing everything being like wow this is fucking crazy these people really are out to get you based on that You would think I said some horrible, just offensive, just truly awful thing.

Yeah, I think let me put it a different way because I think you're probably right in the sense that I never gained the benefit of the doubt with this group. Let's put it that way, right? So it was one thing. It was just one thing that Domino was, there was a tip and it was, and they were down as opposed to, that's why I brought up the example before of if one of the people that they actually liked within that insular industry said the same thing. They might have been a gasped, but they might have reached a hand out or given that person a second chance. So I think that all plays into the, you know, I have the gads than flag as my Twitter, I kind of had that first since 2009. I have, you know, I've not been shot. Yeah, it's been flagged being, don't tread on me the snake. Right, exactly. You know, so they're just certain things that mean me very different than other people in the industry. And I think that I definitely think that plays a role. What's your Twitter name? No taxation. Yeah, which is a reference to the American Revolution, which I know you know a lot of people think, no taxes. I'm like, that's not what it means. I can't fit no taxation without representation on Twitter. That's why it doesn't say that. Yeah, that would be a long ass. Yeah. Yeah, I don't necessarily long.

That's what I love about Twitter. You probably feel the same way. I write something really long. Sometimes then I have to parse it and figure out how to make it fit. And it feels very good for joke writing.

Yeah, exactly. And the beauty is, too, as you've probably noticed, is that I think in the last year, whatever they were images, you used to take up characters, too, and videos and links. And I think the links are the only thing left that takes up the extra characters in addition to the name. But it keeps everyone hurt. But that doesn't stop people from tweeting 7,000 times in a row.

Yeah, no, I did it just yesterday when I ran into some woman in San Francisco that I was walking my dog. I have a Boston Terrier. She was like a little sicker. Her poop was a little wet. So I went and picked it up and I left like some, you know, just like smeared, you'd have to use your fingernails to get off the ground. So woman came out of her apartment and started scolding me. Like she was waiting by the by the window to scold me for this. And I like, what the hell is going on? So I had to tweet out a few tweets about that just for for posterity.

Yeah, some people, you know, I've done it to put, well, like going and Photoshop, make a paragraph of a text, and then make that the image that people do that on Instagram too.

I think if that's the exception, if the exception, I think it's totally fine. I don't want people to ruin in Twitter. I like the curtains.

Yeah, exactly. Because there are nuances lost, right?

Well, that's the impulse. It's always the implication, right? Like everyone's always out to assume the absolute worst. And now, so I was trying to write about like this guy is just trying to make an example. He's probably given 15 PR interviews today. He's probably exhausted. He's also a developer. So he doesn't have much PR training. He's trying to just get the point across. Why do you have to assume the man is a sexist and a misogynist because of this one thing? I'm willing to die on that hill because I feel like people deserve the benefit of the doubt. People deserve to make a mistake or get a joke wrong or all those kinds of things. And I feel like, yes, people are allowed to exercise their free speech on the other end of you. I don't like that joke or I don't like this or I don't like that. But it doesn't stop there. What's going on with Dave Chappelle this week? I thought it was really actually interesting with his two specials on Netflix. People are freaking out about, you know, his jokes is his jokes about gay people or transgender people or whatever.

Right. Like, like, I actually, after I saw all the stuff I went and watched, the first one, and then I watched half of the second one, and I was falling asleep, so I didn't want to watch anymore, but I was like, this is funny. And, uh, Anthony Jesselnik or Daniel Tosh would make these people shit their pants compared to what's going on with this kind of stuff. And it's always this drama that seeks to kind of, it doesn't stop it saying like, I don't like it. It's often insinuated or outright spoken that they want to censor it or change it. That's like where I, because I was reading a piece specifically about Chappelle, where they're like, this calls up questions as to like, how far should comedy go? And I'm like, no, that doesn't call, and that's when the free speech argument ends for me. That's what I'm like, you're actually now talking about changing it.

Right. But it's the same way I feel. I mean, I actually, you know, I came from the editorial world where you have to get clear. I mean, we were going to, our expectations were way higher and, you know, but did you have those kind of requirements? No, not literally. I know some sites do, but some sites have, like, quote, yeah, like a quote or like, you get bonuses if you get, you know, certain amount of hits or whatever. We didn't have that week, we were a salary, whatever. But you would, you would be fired. Ultimately, if you weren't writing things that people were reading. Right. But I tried to stay out of my way for writing and flammatory things actually. There are a couple of examples where I wouldn't write a story because I felt like it wasn't pertinent to any information and it was specifically to assassinate someone's character.

I had a high profile woman in the gaming industry tell me in an interview that was unrelated to what I was actually interviewing her that she'd never was once the victim of sexism in the industry ever. And that was, and I was like, I could write this, but this isn't why I was there to, you know, I wasn't interviewing about this. And this is going to cause her problems. And that's not who I am. I don't. Because then people are going to, then people are going to, you know, jump on and be like, well, I, you know, I experienced this and I experienced this and you're diminishing and it would just cause her drama. Like, why would I do that?

He's gamer people. Yeah, it's confusing to me too. I mean, the second story I think was more pertinent though, which was this guy had like this guy worked at a big publisher. And he was laid off. And he had like this huge meltdown on social media. And people were writing about it. And I was like, I knew him personally, and not wasn't really friendly with him at the time. But I knew him personally, and I was like, and everyone was like, we should write about this, and I'm like, What is this what is this serving like what was the meltdown he just he just had he was just going off about how he was just angry and sad he's young kid that finally got in and then he lost his grip on on the job and and was and was laid off whatever and he's fine now he's back in the industry but the I was like I think I wasn't cut out to be like this hardcore like don't get them journalism like at any cost because I was like This is going to ruin this guy. Why would I want to contribute to this? I think I didn't get into this industry to depile on people to ruin their lives. I got into this industry to celebrate video games, to tell interesting stories about games, to challenge people's minds. And I always tried to take that with me where I was like, I'm not going to write anything for the clicks. I could write these solutions headlines. I can write this dirt or this stuff I heard, whatever, but it's not who I am. That's not who I want to be. And I'd rather contribute more positively to the ecosystem then then be like, well, I'll just get clicks for this today and this guy's got to read the story and it's going to be in Google and Lexus Nexus forever and it's going to for what? So I can get 50,000 clicks one day and then just move on. He's not going to be able to move on. He didn't even do anything that is worthy of being writing about it. We're writing about this. Why are we always after people?

Yeah, and that's not who, because I don't want, I never wanted the canon to be turned on me even though it wasn't, actually. You know what I mean? The canon of hate. Like the, try to put out that energy that you want. That's positive, or at least, constructive. If someone like murder someone in the gaming industry, yes, that's noteworthy. We should probably write about that if someone, you know, depends on who they're murdered.

Well, that's different, I guess. We can, we can have that conversation, I guess.

Yeah, I agree. And while that brings me back, Joe, what we were saying specifically about, we feel bad for these writers at these sites. And to me, like the analogy I draw is like, I hate the TSA, right? There's normal people that work for the TSA that are just trying to do their thing. But that doesn't mean I don't hate the system that they work under and think the system should change. And it's the same thing here. It's like, yeah, these guys are victimized by the set of circumstances in which they under which they have to write. But that doesn't mean that the system should remain the same because they need to write those stories.

They're in front of you on your fourth amendment rights. They're they're warrantless searches. They legally sees things. I mean, this is written very clearly in the bill of rights. So And I hate the whole argument of like, well, you, you don't have, you know, or you, you, you, um, you kind of pass by your rights or, you know, give them up when you're in the airport and I'm like, no, they're, they're an alien, actually. So I just have a huge problem. Like, I don't have a problem going through a metal detector, something reasonable, a reasonable search.

Sure, but it goes back to the, first of all, you know, I don't think that we're going to have many problems on airplanes anymore. I think that they're moving on to something else. And no plane is going to get hijacked anywhere now. Everyone knows what's going to happen.

That could be that could be an argument argument. I also want to give a shout out that serious things happen. My dad's a new retired New York City firefighter. So it's it's the I that quit very well. I knew people that died that day, but it's still you know, and my dad could have died that day depending on the circumstances think I didn't

But to me, it was like, I just would, it's like the old Benjamin Franklin thing. You know, it's balancing your, your liberty and your freedom with security. And I think that we've, we've, we've given them so much power with the Patriot Act with the TSA with all these things running. This is a bad road to go, to go down and they're just going to take more and more.

Yeah, overall liberty deserves neither safety nor liberty.

No, it is. I mean, I don't think that the the the counterpoint would be to just get rid of it. Just walk into a terminal and be able to get on an airplane. But I remember, you know, and I'm, you remember two and a lot of people do it. We had the security apparatus before 9-11. These guys outsmarted the security apparatus by doing very specific things, including knowing how to fly planes and doing all the things that you can't possibly check for. And also people get guns and knives and weapons intentionally through the TSA all the time. I think it wasn't something like over 90% of agents that were trying to get through the things through the TSA succeeded. So these are the people standing between us and ISIS.

Yeah, I knew a guy that brought a ton of weed overseas on accident. You know, like that's terrifying. That's like there's a shit. No, I mean, like me too, like I go through my bed just for anything you might leave in there in your bags where I always comb through just to make sure there's not, you know, you never know what's gonna happen. But to the point, he didn't mean to do that. Right. But it was, there it was. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's it's like it's more like the Israeli experience where like this this kind of shit can happen at any time anywhere. Very vigilant about that. I've often wondered that as well. Like why doesn't even at a security checkpoint in an airport? Why not just do it there? Yeah, like like and I really think it's that they, you know, to your point with them all and all these kinds of things in these public places. I think it just speaks to the fact that most people of Aspenjardy people are just good decent people that want to go get their lives for sure. And that these terrorists could target all of these different places. I don't think they do maybe because they can't but probably more because they don't want to give themselves away for something that might be seen as minor. Like 9-11 was a spectacle. It wasn't only that 3,000 people died. It was that it was the spectacle of killing those people in that place. And so I think that there's something about that as well, which is why I'm more scared about like a dirty bomb or something like that today then I am of anyone taking an airplane over because everyone knows what happened in 2001. So now someone pulls out a knife on an airplane and try someone's just going to tackle that guy and probably kill him. That's what I'm not sure. That's why I know the guy tried to blow a shoe up or something like that on the plane. That's why we have to take our fucking shoes off now. The threat has changed. The threat is evolving. And we can be vigilant in all these ways. But then I wonder, it goes back to like NSA and all these things. Like, how much are we going to give the government? And how much are we going to give up in order for safety? I'd rather live in a more dangerous world, personally, and know that no one's reading my text messages or no one's throwing out my hand lotion or harassing. I saw these two women, Australian women in the airport at SFO when I came down to LA last week. They were in wheelchairs. They were going through all of their stuff and like, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing to these people? I just leave them alone. And I actually went up to them afterwards and I'm like, I'm sorry. We hate these people too, just so you know. So this is not okay with any of us that they're they're they're they're like a half an hour going they had these frowns on their faces. They were they looked ejected. This might be their first time in the States for all I know or good first map.

They're harassing old women. They're harassing, you know, harassing. I think I saw in JFK once like going through like a nun's bag or something like what? What? This is madness to me. I'm like, this is not, but everyone's turning on each other.

They are a terrorist I like the someone I don't know much about you probably know more about it than I do but someone was telling me a little bit about the is the way the Israelis do airport security specifically that it's it's like all about It's they're not profiling but even based on race or anything they're profiling based on like your behavior and it goes to your point like these are well paid professional People that know what the fuck they're doing know what they're looking for and they're in the airport and they see someone just acting a little weird

Yeah, so it'll over there's that little more balance than that.

That's half hour later. That's that's some that's a little too strong arm for me But to the point, like I don't know, I just don't like the security theater aspect of it. We all know what's going on. Everyone being inconvenience. These people are miserable. It's just, it goes back down to the, no one wants to make hard decisions or even do what, like, really hard work. Like, what works? What doesn't, let's do studies. Let's figure out what, what we're doing instead of looking at people naked in machines.

I know, but back in the day.

No, I mean, I think it goes back to me of like, I can't speak necessarily to the level of confidence because I'm not in security. I don't know like what they're doing. I don't know what their level of training is. It just goes back to the constitutionality of it. Like if we, and it brings up those tough questions, this is the same way I feel about the second amendment. If we start seeding what this means in certain situations, and before you know it, that'll just continue to erode it away. like, and so when I'm like, this is a warrantless search. This is by definition, a warrantless search. If you went and got John Jay and James Madison and all these guys and asked them, and somehow told them what the fuck was going on, and then said, like, what is, does this look like this thing?

I don't know if my argument makes sense to you, but to me it's, I just feel like these are certain sacred rights that need to be protected in any way they can. And if we want to have a conversation about why we should seed this right in a specific way, then you have to do it a little more clearly. And to me, I just, I think people take some of these things for granted that, you know, what's stopping them from, you know, if these rights continue to erode them, what stops them from busting in your house at some point and be like, well,

Yeah, you can eat that you can eat. You can eat weed, too. That's your weekend. It's actually not bad for you. So these things are happening actually that one thing sounds familiar with the family pet being killed. I think I saw this a lot of it.

Yeah, it's awful. But you're making the argument in my opinion of why we have to take a stand. You know, like why we have to say like, in that situation.

No, but it is a fourth amendment issue that we would that are allowing to be eroding. No one should be allowed to go into anyone's home without a warrant.

Sure, you could do that. Yeah, and you would still have to go to the machines and all that. I don't I don't dispute that because I agree with you in the pre 9-11 world Going through the metal detector having your bags, you know, looking at it through the machine. I think that's all reason. Well, I just don't like the people being pulled aside pulled in the rooms People just going to kind of very disrespectful going through shit. I don't know how to mean to me. I have a I just Is that is that a hill worth dying on in a way it is because I feel like it could just You're as you made the point it's already see that mentality now seeps into lots of different places, right? And I just want to see what I don't want to see the end result of that

Yeah, my frustration grows in that way which is people that in 2017 seemed to have some because you and I I'm sure you do to I fly all the time right so you you see all types right and it's like you always cut in counter the guys like have you not flown in the last 15 years ever to know that people trying to walk through the machines where they're shoes on they're belt it's like what is it going and then they're in convenience care people that don't push their bins through the you know down to the thing and and just leave it there for someone else to push through my what is

Yeah, you see, I always try to show to your point about showing some respect to the TSA agents. I have my confrontations with them somewhat. Do you? What kind of confrontations do you have? Well, just in the sense, like just a couple of weeks ago, I guess it was when I came down to see Dave, I was with my girlfriend and they were going through They were going through a bag. They held my girlfriend's bag, but they were just holding it for like, two point for minutes. We weren't in a rush, but I'm like, right? If I wasn't even acknowledging that like, hey, dude, our stuff's here, we're kind of just standing here waiting. And I'm like, and I said to him, are you enjoying your little bit of power right now? Like, I don't understand what you're doing this to us. said, please, and thank you, we're doing, like, doing our stuff. So just these little confrontations, I had a massive, when I was in, when I was in Stahl High School, because 9-11 happened when I was in 12th grade, and I flew down to, uh, in 2002 or early 2002, I flew down to Virginia to see my sister who was teaching down there. And, um, I, they were going through my, my bags and stuff like that and I had a confrontation with the TSA where there were some of them, one of them was like, son, do you know what happened to whatever, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I know what happened. I'm from New York. I live in the herd of none of them. And my dad's a New York City firefighter. Yeah, I understand what happened. You know, and, like, to the point where, like, like, where they called over, like, I was a 17 year old kid. And to the point where they called over, like, did some cops, and then they were just, they, like, just let me go, whatever. But I was like, at that point, it was so, so didn't mean where I'm like, why are you being so, Why are you disrespecting me like you're going through my stuff if I'm a little upset about that or I have something to say about that like I understand you have to probably deal with this all day But don't don't because I'm a young kid I don't know what happened because I'm a young man I don't you would know I do what my experience was were you at the funeral for a firecriter that you knew that died you know I was so like you know it's it's that kind of stuff always I think it's so to see didn't me very early with them where am I? Yeah, so I acknowledge that part of it too, you know where it's like there is a little bit of a chip on my shoulder with them

I think that the solution to bridge the gap in the way we feel about this and like come to some sort of consensus what might be And this conflicts a little bit with my small government kind of mentality, but it's just to say, like, to ask the kind of fundamental question, why are these people being paid $10 or $15 an hour back to the Israeli experience of these guys that are professionals? They take a lot of pride in their work. They make maybe $80,000 or $100,000 a year, and they, you know, not that they necessarily need to make that much money, but people that are professionals should be invest more money and making this smarter.

Maybe it wouldn't. Well, we already pay a little bit of that. But with tickets, but I think, you know, home and security might be able to maybe we stop dropping bombs on a bunch of countries and take some of that money and put it on and put it on, you know, into that dairy.

different different scenario yeah I think you know I went to school with this girl that was Israeli when I was at Northeastern in Boston and I remember very clearly she had this you wouldn't it very unassuming you would never know but she had this picture of her with an assault rifle shooting at a range and I'm like this is so so interesting it conflicts because I agree with you it's like one of those things where I'm like I don't I can see both sides of this where I don't know that the state should have the right to exert that kind of power over a person. But at the same time, does it have to be military service? So one person turns 18 is a fair to say like just spend a couple years and give something to your country and whether it's you you work in a super kitchen or something or do something that is for the society and really have some some investment in some skin in the game in society. I think that that's a nice idea but I think that the way I feel about the state's exertion of power over the individual kind of overrides that but I like I like the idea and in principle like the idea of saying like hey and it's also easy for me as a 32-year-old that would be long you know to be like ah you guys do it so at the same time I understand that argument as well.

Me too. I think they have compulsory voting in Australia. I want to say, and look how that works out.

He's crockin' out, spiders, poisonous bugs, shit. God, place looks horrifying. But the, no, I've never been.

That seems like a pretty reasonable list. I mean, I know I know good list. Just being in the gaming industry, I know a lot of people, some people I really love that came from Australia, really friendly people, but the interior that country sounds like just an absolute fucking shit show.

It's incredibly, yeah, it's like, perth on the west coast and then it's just sitting in Melbourne right on the east coast. And that's basically- A lot of clean Queensland.

No, no. I wouldn't- I'm the kind of guy with, like, where I see a spider and I have to argue with my girlfriend who's going to kill it. So I don't- I don't want to- I don't want to- Do you really? Yeah, I hate you. I- We- It's always tap up bro. It's always- It always ends up on me, but I hate- I hate spiders. So, so if I see even these little like, I hate him. Do you get a rack in a phobia? No, I don't think I have that. I'm not going to like, if I see one crawling me, I'm not going to run out the house, but I'm like, I don't want to, is this thing going to jump? I have to like really think about my strategy on how I'm going to kill this thing. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's one of those things where I'm like, so if I was in Australia, I'm just being honest with you. So I was in Australia.

Oh my god dude.

What is it about that part of the world? It's unbelievable. Yeah, they put their manor and all that kind of stuff in the water and the box jellyfish to the scariest.

They're a little tiny guys, right? It's warm on you. They're hard. Jellyfish are always scary because growing up on the long end, we had obviously harmless jellyfish, but they would wash up on the shore sometimes. And they're, you know, I used to look at them when I was kind of like, these are so strange. What is this, Jeremy?

Yeah, cool.

I think I am too just because they're less scary to me.

Interesting. Yeah. I mean, if you put a piece of, if you put a spider in front of me, I didn't know what it was. I'd be fine. I mean, even if I didn't know what it was, if, you know, it's not going to kill you when it's dead. Yeah. If it's good. If it's good, if it's the likeable.

You must have seen some things on that show, man. Yeah, I'm pretty numb. Yeah, I guess that explains a lot of your kind of more. You've seen it all.

You can show or do to me that lipstick on my teeth.

I'm curious about, because you brought it up before, but what is your stance on Snowden? It seems like you're against the NSA, all that kind of stuff. But what is your stance on him? I'm curious, like, do you think you should come back? Do you think that he should, is he a patriot?

It's part of the community. It's part of the community. It's part of the community.

I think a deal of that. I think at the, oh, that's a good point. When you're thinking back on the person before they transitioned.

I'm sure you will. But I think it's reasonable to say before the transition when you look back in posterity on a person, maybe it's up to that person, but I would assume that the pronoun would change at that point. Give a fuck.

He doesn't make any sense.

What do you do? Like, what is your, what are the places your mind goes? I would start doing kung fu. Yeah. I'll just start working.

Oh, I know, okay. I know.

Yeah, no, that's a very valid and solid argument, I think, because my stance on manning specifically has softened over time, because I feel like, you know, when he or she, I don't know, can we call her Z? Z? I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I just don't know what I'm talking about. I'm sorry. You're racist too, I know. I know. That Lexus nexus will call me a racist for the rest of my life. But yeah, to me, it was like, I felt like it was very, They didn't take the time to people died because of that stuff like there were people that were put in danger because of the things that they were put out because it wasn't they didn't carefully comb through it and make sure that it's not for people done yeah, I mean you could look at that because of the way WikiLeaks released it Yeah, because I don't think that I don't know if they're going to point that specific things, but the way things were outed, like I don't think all the names were blacked out. I don't think the operations in process, like people were in play, you know, that were being outed in that way. I think the reason I was a little softer on Snowden was because not only was it domestic, primarily, but which I think is an important qualifier, but also because I think he went out of his way to not single any individuals out. It was all about the apparatus itself. It wasn't about, like, saying, like, general blah, blah, blah. It's doing this in general, blah, or admiral. But it was about, like, hey, this structure exists and it's really as quite nefarious indeed. And I think that, so I was always, to me, my stance on him is he's a patriot and he should be welcomed home. And the fact that he wasn't, he can't be, I guess, party has been tried, whatever. But the fact that I know that some people think that Obama only pardoned Manning because it made him look good with the transgender community and with the LBGTQ community, which I think is a little, There might be a leaving office though. Well, because it's part of his legacy like it's part of saying like, you know, it's the same reason why, you know, how much Ford was hurt when he pardon Nixon that stuck with him forever in a negative way. Well, this is going to stick with Obama. I think positively in a good way moving forward. But I don't know that I'm that I'm quite that Carlos and thinking that that's the only reason I think that he probably had time to marinate on it. Clearly she went through some rigors.

Well, that goes back to the whole thing with Snowden when you're saying, well, you kind of take a oath to protect these secrets and all that kind of stuff. But I look at it, you know, I want people to be flipping with that kind of stuff that you were saying, there are people to be flipping, being like, well, this is, I have some sort of personal problem with this. But I actually think it takes a level of courage, but like, what in the fuck is going on here?

I think that was in the documentary, though, the, um, I didn't see it. Oh, it's, it wasn't a little bit of something like that.

Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which

Sure, and even with the London terrorist attack, you know, someone's already someone. Yeah, the one that just happened, where people, they seem to have identified the person, new sources that were that are what you think are reputable, say it, and then they have to retract it later. Everyone's very quick to try to pull the gun first and be like, well, we have the story. Yeah. And then we're all victimized as, you know, people that are just, you know, we're not in the trenches, so we need the information. We have to trust these people, and trust is broken, I think, in a little bit.

Yeah. When you have everything, where do you begin?

Nobody's reading your shit. Yeah, no. Yeah, that's not even the point, right? Yeah. Well, it goes back to the point we're making because with the Patriot Act after 9-11, they made the same argument. Well, you have nothing to hide.

Hey, bro, not in wrong with dick pics. But yeah, no, I think I kind of, I think we're in the league with that. I think Snowden is like a hero. I feel like what he did took a lot of courage and and and it blew up his life.

You would probably love to talk to you. I mean, he seems like he's probably caught out of counter-cost and surveillance. You have to assume.

What do you do to feed yourself? Where's he getting his money? He must have a stipend of some sort. You have to assume right? You have to, I mean, he's a guest of there, so you have to assume that he's taking care of him somewhere.

I mean, he's a very smart man, so he must know at the highest level that he did geopolitical porn, like you said, could be played in any way at any point.

Yeah, he's an interesting cat. I'm somewhat fascinated by him. I don't think we've, I think he'll come back at some point.

It's extremely orwellian. And I feel like with Snowden, sometimes people miss the forest for the trees with it, they're very focused on the man, the tech, the act. But they're not focused on one of the things that I really interested in is like, what is the level of complicity with the telecoms? What is the complicity with the government forcing these people? And there's a whole, there's a, and how many thousands of people are in on this? And that's the crazy thing is that Snowden, who was a contractor, not even really in the, in your sanctum of the NSA, knew all of this stuff. There are people running around thousands of people just acting like this never happened or wasn't going on. It's a pretty it's not a conspiracy because we know it's true, but it's a pretty big thing where I'm like focusing on Snowden is missing the entire point. There's like Why are all like like why didn't no one like no sprinter team all where anyone was like hey Well you imagine the kind of cool would have been for one of those companies to be like We're not doing this and in fact like we're gonna tell everyone you know like what will this will make us look amazing Well, you know from a very shrewd corporate stance to be like well this be we don't Right, but let's be honest.

I think it's just protecting the bottom. I mean, I'm sure that there's something I can do, but they don't care about anything but money.

It's like, whoa. Yeah, it's very deep. It's very technical. And I have no problem with them going to a shadow court and getting like a permission to be like, we're tracking this guy's phone now. Right. We're sure we're reading this guy or this organization's emails or people that are kind of both within seven degrees of separation or whatever from this person. They're at least have some sort of orderly nature to it, right? Right. You don't need to be reading my emails, you know, or my, you know, I'm just getting Uber receipts sent to my email where it's like, what, what? Why are you even storing all of this and like, what is what uses it other than the obviously they want trends, they want data that they can to big. high up data, you know, eagle eye data and saying like this is the trend in all these kinds of things, but it's all ill begotten because it's like it's not it's not right and that that was the disappointing and you probably feel the same way Joe is like after Snowden and and I say it was a big story, but then everyone kind of just like a Yeah, and everyone kind of forgot. Well, they're still kind of doing a lot of the same, you know, kind of thing. We didn't affect, we know about it now, but we didn't, we don't know that the level of change that was affected really. And to me, I feel like this is the thing where you gotta keep the pedal down and you gotta keep going and be like, this is not okay. This is not right. And it's the same thing with,

It is, and it's scary in the sense too, because it goes back to what they were saying, or at this gentleman was saying that we were just talking about where he was saying like they're, they have 20 data. They have too much to work with. And at some point somebody said, hey, the guy with an ounce of weed, or the guy even with four ounces of weed. why are we dumping him in with all this stuff that's just going to muddy the waters more about the real target that we're really going after which is someone that's actually going to hurt someone or someone that's actually going to cause a terrorist incident. To me I would if I were them I'd be like we need less we need way more targeted data we need to leave 325 million people alone probably at least and here's in another big part of the problem was that when Obama

Yeah, and that this is the level of restraint that needs to be shown by someone in that position because... And he hasn't done anything yet.

Yeah, given time. But to me, it goes back to the argument of executive orders, it goes back to the argument of all these things where, or the filibuster in the Senate, where what's good for the Goose is good for the gander. You can't set up these these rules that are just going to backfire on you and then complain about them later to me. I think it's a huge mistake. That's why I have a lot of respect for presidents. We haven't had one in a long time that they're more restrained the presidents that that defer executive power and actually say like maybe the legislature should be dealing with these kinds of things. We need a man like that. I mean back in the I mean it's been a long time to kill the age you have coolage and hard and those guys But ever since FDR really the imperial presidency grew in power and all these kinds of things and before you knew it You had a little canaries in the coal mine with like I was actually talking a day about it last night with eyes and power with the military industrial complex and all these kinds of amazing wasn't it yeah, I can amazing like I really don't think people realize how insane that is that that man said that

So Eisenhower was president from 52 to 60. So technically, 53 to 61. And he was, obviously, one of the instrumental generals in the allied assaults on Japan and on Nazi Germany. And he saw the influence of the military growing and that in the Cold War and the Nacean era, the Cold War, that We were making bombs to make bombs that we were trying to have conflicts like with Korea, what she tried that, what she did end in the early 50s and seeing that, seeing the seeds sewn that of a perpetual war of perpetual war that the economy was actually benefiting from.

No, no, no, no. did great job. Okay, and so and so he's a man of a military background. Everyone loved Eisenhower. Right. Like because of what he did in the war and he two-term president Nixon was his vice president, very popular. But at the end he was like, you gotta watch what's going on over here. I'm telling you. Yes. You can trust me. I'm from that world and watch what's happening. It's a great speech.

Jesus. It's an amazing, at the time that was an amazing speech, and it's just pressing in. Because people have to understand, and you know, like before World War II, we weren't built up and militarized society. We would militarize when we needed to, and it was really, Teddy Roosevelt know those kinds of guys that started to kind of like get a little more bullish in that kind of regard with the Spanish-American War and the USS Maine and then, you know, but the fight over war war won was real. You know, we didn't want to get involved. We got involved very late. And people take for granted now that we have just massive military, we have this massive power. But in the 19th century, that not that you can't equate them necessarily to the 21st century, we weren't going around running roughshot over people and doing those kinds of things. If you were a very isolationist, that was kind of the American tradition. And so here that come out of Eisenhower's mouth, especially knowing his experiences in the war and his deep knowledge of the military and what was going on in the world. So it's one of the great Warnings of all time in America.

No, absolutely not. And I think that even hearing that from, you know, just to reiterate, like hearing that from our Barack Obama, for instance, would be strong, right? But hearing that from a Ulysses S. Grant or a Zachary Taylor or a guy that served, especially the level he served is like that, that meant something to people. And I think that that's why that's saying never went away, but under our noses it happened. And what he said was going to happen is exactly what happened in the Southeast Asia in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. He called it from a fucking mile away.

And it's the same, you know, some people say the USS Maine in Spanish American War in 1898 was another false flag or something that was, they let happen or something that was blown out of proportion, you know, pardon the pun because it was about the ship blowing up. But yeah, it's one of those, it is a provocation that gets everyone involved. And we had this nemesis. It was good versus evil. We were upset. We saw, I think, especially against the Nazis, we saw the stature of the good versus evil argument. And we won. So with the allies. So I think we tried to perpetuate that immediately the Soviets became the evil. And then we created our bombs. And then they created their bombs. And then we just had these proxy wars that we were fighting against the Chinese and Korea. And the Soviets and Vietnam really like all these things that were kind of, you know, Everyone knew it was going on, but no, I'm sorry.

I was just going to say, so I think that when the Soviet, when everything started to get peaceful, what do they call glass nost? In Soviet, which is like the idea of like a new era like peace and prosperity with the West or whatever, in like the late 70s or early 80s, I think that the the the bowings of the world and the and the halibutans of the world were like, oh shit, you know, and and come 90s pretty pretty but we immediately found new targets and we should be wary of why that happened you know I'm not saying that we shouldn't necessarily fight we have to fight sometimes but to have this industrialized nature of it to have this need to lurch from one war to the next war to the next war is not what a a thriving republic does it's what a dying empire does

It's really crazy. It's scary and it's a scary waste of money, too. I don't think that we, I really do feel like we should have the most powerful military in the world. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. I think I'm right. I think a powerful Republican have those kinds of things. But we don't need all of these bases that are legacy bases. Why are we still in Japan? Why are we still in, you know, place they talk some shit?

Yeah, I want to say that communist shit off my screen. I want to say, I mean, this is incredible, Joe. I want to say, I think this is right, that if you split the military spending of the world in thirds, we are responsible for a third of it, 10 countries are responsible for another third of it, and then everyone else is responsible for another third of it. We have four and a half percent of the world's population. So this is way out of whack with even our needs, like our actual very need to protect ourselves. I think it's just way out of whack.

piece to be had in in these countries that might not spend a lot of money or money or might not even have a lot of money to spend a lot of money to do that. I want to I want to spend say I want to live like they do a tree lock or a thing with us or something like that.

Well, that's what you've been established by the international business times. But to me, I just look at it. I'm like we can spend this money wise or and we can have a we can ramp up and have plans to ramp up people forget and you know. GM Ford, all these guys were making our armaments. Mitsubishi made the Japanese zeros. IBM, Offshoots of IBM were making friggin' punch card machines for the Nazis. People for better or for worse ramp up and do what they need to do in times of war to make money. And so we could have a plan in place to say, hey, if we need to ramp up with something bad happens, if we need to go overseas or something, if we have to go engage the Russians because they're rolling into the rest of Ukraine, for instance. We can take care of that without having bases all over the world.

Oh, no, I just like to hear whenever I do this. No, no, the earrings have been in since I was like, 18. I just never took him out. I'm superstitious. So I'd you're superstitious. Yeah, so I don't like to, you know, not like over overtly superstitious, but I'm afraid to take them out. I'm afraid to do the different things.

Yeah, we the people. And then I have Franklin's Association of Snake.

Yeah. Yeah. What you wanted to describe it? Sure, when I went to college, I went to school for American history, and I graduated, and when I got my job offer in the video game industry, I was about to start my graduate degree at Northeastern and American history, because I wanted to be a professor at the time. So my real passion was American history and American politics, but I veered off into a different direction. How do you say, so these are relics, so I got these when I was like,

Yeah, I just, you know, I love, I'm really interested in the founding generation. I'm really interested in their experiences and the American Revolution. I think it's a fascinating revolution compared to a lot of other revolutions, primarily because it is, I think it inherently in some ways conservative revolution, which is not common. These were incredibly rich people fighting. These weren't like poor, destitute people John Hancock had something like 150th of all of the value of the colonies under his name.

Yeah. And to me, that's why I think that they're worth protecting. And it goes into the, like, is the constitution living or not? Is it, is it, is it, is it, is it your strict construction, is it a loose construction? It's all those kinds of questions. I think are valid. But to me, I'm like, we can't, we have this very unique vision into what the founders intended because they were one of the few, I think people, people at that time that were like, we're gonna, You know, the federal's papers are incredible. If you read them, like, we don't have to wonder what they meant. They literally tell you exactly what they meant. So when you go to Supreme Court cases, I don't know that there are many Supreme Court cases that don't even reference the federal's papers because it's like, well, they said this said article three section two, but actually in this paper that they wrote anonymously that we know Alexander Hamilton wrote, here's what he said about it. You know, and I think that's interesting stuff.

There's a difference between liberal and progressive.

Well, they think it's, they, primarily they think it was like kind of a joke because not, not a, not a hard joke, but like your, your clown kind of because why? Because I believe in a small government, for instance, I believe in low taxation. I believe in the elimination of the income tax and things like this. These are red, but I don't actually have like not all my ideas are radical or even outside of the mainstream. Socially, I'm probably further to the left than many of these people. I think that it goes back to this idea, and this is something Dave Ruben has touched on a lot in his show, which I'm sure you're familiar with, which is this idea that it's really all or nothing. Like they don't want to be an ally with someone that might be able to help them in X, Y, and Z, if they disagree with people in A, B, and C. So they could have had a great ally in me and be like, I've been pro game average forever. I've been pro choice. You know, I'm for the decriminalization of drugs. I'm for the legalization of prostitution. I'm for a lot of these things that are very far to the left socially that we probably could find some agreement on somewhere and we can work on those things and get those things done together. But because I say also like, hey, The income tax is predatory and really hurts people. I own a business and I guess I own another one now and I know like that I could have hired another person if taxes weren't so owner or something. And so I also stand on there and they they're like this never happened. This stuff that you just said never happened. This left this left the left wing stuff that we had never happened because you don't believe in. because you have this one thing that we have a problem with now.

Well, they say like, they make a lot of its insinuations because a lot of it isn't even things that I feel or believe. So an example would be, you know, I see a lot of people say all the time like a column doesn't believe in welfare or a column doesn't believe in social security and I'm like I never said to that actually I just I believe that these things should be reformed and maybe taken back a step but they even look at that as a push too far on the on the system I guess what I'm trying to say to you and I'm sorry I'm not being more elucid with you I'm trying my hardest is is that there they you have to agree with them lock step if they see you in one way that is that is is injurious to their cause or to that is conflicting or contrary to what they believe they do not give a fuck about anything else you believe and that's the thing that always frustrated me what's so surprising with people really were running me out on a rail out of the gaming industry with the with a completely innocuous joke which I think tells you everything you need to know about the the intent that they don't see they don't want allies in different ways that allies in different clothes allies that they want just they just want complete You know, it's very overwhelming. They just want you to be completely like them. And if you're not like them, they don't want anything to do with you. And it's not even like I was advocating for anything crazy. I don't advocate for anything crazy. I don't think.

What is it? Right. And this is what I always call this issue to me, particularly Joe is a 60 40 issue. What I always say is like, I am pro choice, but I respect the pro life argument. And I don't think you should as have unfettered access to abortions forever. You know, like, like, you know, yeah, two months. You know, someone like that 14 week. I don't know. I don't know what the number is. But in 14 weeks too much. But to me, I'm like, yeah, what's happened? You make a great point because it's, it's, it is this dogmatic sense of saying like, it, here's the way it is. That's it. It goes back to, you know, I heard you talking about it. I was so glad to hear you say it because it goes back to like the war on women, right? Like, there's just a whole group of people apparently in the, you know, in the country, 150 million of my hate women that that because they're pro, pro life for instance, which is a stance I don't share, but I respect why does that mean that they hate women why does it mean that like why does it always go from zero to ten you know for like immediately it's like and then and then there's all these lies mixed in like the uh... the uh... the the pay gap which is a fucking lie just a pay gap it's not just a lie it's a lot is perpetrated by a bomb on tv talking about it mean

It is demonstrably false. Yeah. And it is a lie. So why do I keep here? Keep it. Why does everyone be so divisive? Why do you want to add more fuel to the fire when you can be like, hey, well, maybe we have problem x, y and z, but this isn't a problem, actually.

So the pay gap claimed by studies, I guess the Department of Labor or something is 21 cents or something like that. So saying, I think something like $79 every dollar a man makes a woman makes 79 cents. That's true only if you take every man every woman take all of the money they make and divide it by the amount of men in the amount of woman doesn't take into account careers doesn't take a account personal choices women for instance leave the workforce to have families sometimes men are gravitating towards engineering or physics or things that pay them a lot of money while women tend to you know tend maybe towards psychology or something like that I think the argument is something like nine out of the ten top grossing career choices are men dominated And nine out of the ten lowest career money-making career choices are actually dominated by women. I think the only exception there is clergy, which is dominated by men. And so, but it doesn't, it doesn't adjust for any of these things. So when you actually adjust for choices, when you adjust for careers and longevity and hours and all of these things that are relevant, the pay gap closes to something like less than five cents. And then there's even arguments saying that those could probably be explained away completely as well. depending on, I know Christina Summers and some of these people had no way more about this than I do have videos about. If you actually dive in, you probably can get rid of the entire number completely. But it's preposterous to say that the women makes $79 for every dollar.

Right, it's not true. Yeah. And I like the argument because it's true, you know, why not why if that was true, why wouldn't a corporation just hire women?

It's also I think it's that's one half of the other half of it is like what does it say about a person that just continues to say it anyway right like at some point truth doesn't matter anymore right I want to have a I want to have factual debates I want to have like this is the starting point these are objective truths and then let's debate about those things right but if that's your starting point if that's like a third of the entire reason why you're angry in the streets in Washington D.C. Well, then I don't even know what you're angry about anymore to be honest. It's the same. It goes back to like occupy Wall Street or all these things where I'm like, I don't know exactly what you're angry about. And this is why this protest isn't working and isn't resonating with people.

Exactly, it's fascinating. It's also fed and I feel like some of them have to know right?

The patriarchy. The evil patriarchy. Meanwhile, you ask them, you know, you ask one of these feminists. There's a reason with feminism if the goal is for in total equality. But we all know that that's not really what feminism means to that. That, you know, if you sit there and be like, can you name just one thing that I can do that you can? Just one. I'm not saying like, you give birth like can or something like something biological. I'm saying like, what can't you do? Like if you really want it to. I'm not saying that, you know, like I know for instance that, you know, the examples that people give and I haven't seen the statistics, but I've heard it circulated that even that, you know, companies are so desperate now to hire women because of this situation, this optical situation that they're in where it seems like women are being pushed down, that women in their 20s and 30s are actually making more now. You know, and certainly they're more likely to get a higher education, certainly they're more likely to be, you know, even graduate high school. So there are actually systemic benefits to being a woman, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that either. But I just feel like, it goes back to that thing of like, why are we fighting? Like, what is the divisive nature? Can't we, and this goes back to your question about the video game industry, I'm like, hey, instead of yelling at me about this, we won't agree about these situations over here, but can't we advocate for these together? Or do you not want to, you want to, you want to, you want my advocacy for gay marriage because I believe in small government. You're on my advocacy for, you know, transgender rights because I'm for low taxes. I'm like, okay, that's weird because we can totally be friends here. With the women's march, I know that there were problems with pro life organizations getting involved at a sponsorship level even. Wow. And it's like, they're not women. Right. They're they're they're they're lesser.

Well, it's just argument about equality, right? I mean, to me, feminism was about equality. And I think that this, this, you know, I'm reading more about it in the learning more about it, so I'm still very ignorant about it, but this more third wave, what they call third wave feminism, which I'm sure is a term you've heard. That seems to be more about a combative nature to actually You know, instead of like saying like men and women are equal, men and women should deserve the same rights and the same treatment and all those kinds of things, it actually seems to be very anti-man in a way. Like it seems to be very like almost like the tables have turned. You know, and I'm like, but why are you turning the tables? Like, didn't you achieve what you wanted? Like in the first place, which was just that we were gonna be here together at the, you know, at the, at the, at the next of everything as a judge.

Yeah, I agree. And I'm the same way that the egalitarian nature is the best that the live and let live nature to judge people based on their character and the quality of their intelligence or whatever it is you're looking for in them. Shouldn't be categorized in these specific ways by sex or gender by race or religion by any of those kinds of things. I'm totally with you there. But I think we both agree that women shouldn't be allowed to vote, right? I mean, yeah, I was a women of suffrage long enough. Enough already girls. I used to think that joke was so funny, y'all. I mean, you get murdered for that joke today, but like the, like instead, you know, suffragettes like women have suffraged long enough instead of suffering or whatever. I was like, it's a funny joke. I'd probably, you know, that would have ruined my career too on Twitter, but it didn't ruin your career.

Yeah, it was scary for a little while. What are you scary? I don't know if scary is the right word. It was uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable and unsettling and you really saw where everyone stood. Right. So one of the things I was talking with people about was, you know, how sad it was for me that no, like very few people that I knew came to my defense. And I wasn't saying they had to come to my defense and be like, uh, uh, Colin, you know, that joke was fine. Like if you didn't like the joke, that's, I don't care. It's fine. jokes while flat all the time. You know that you're a comedian. It's hard. I don't do it professionally. I mean, it's impossible hard to get on the stage and do that kind of stuff. But to me, I was like, hey, is anyone gonna say that I'm not a sexist? Is anyone gonna stand up? That's known me for 10 years and say like, hey, we don't agree with the joke. But the way you're categorizing this guy, who I know, is not accurate. And I heard that there were some fights behind the scenes with people. And I got a lot of DMs and messages, but very little in terms of public support. That really hurt me.

Yeah, and that's exactly what they did. And no, they hurt me the most is that I didn't explain. I'm not close with a lot of these people, but people that know me, you know, there are people in this industry that are writing that are, that were piling on me, or remaining silent, that got freelance work because of me, that got maybe even got hired because I was on a hiring committee that put, you know, push for them. All these kinds of things that I'm, and people used to take out the lunch when I was senior editor to see how they were doing, if there's anything I can do for them. So like that, and everyone's just like, Well, I'm not going to come back and help him out now. And I try to put that good energy out there. I'm not always full of good energy. Sometimes I say negative things are bad things. Sometimes I make mistakes. But when a company comes after your character and you damn well know that there are a bunch of people around you that know who you are, whether or not they agree with what you said or agree with what you do, but they know who you are and they know the severity of what people are saying and they don't say anything. That really wounds a person and that really fucking hurt.

I think simple is the key where they use it. Because yes, there are people out there that cannot comprehend how a person who believes in small government, for instance, will use the same argument that says, the government can't touch my guns. That's consistent with saying the government can't tell a woman what to do with her body. That's consistent with the principal. It says, a government shouldn't even be involved in telling you who you can marry. And the man who should be able to marry a man and a woman should be able to marry a woman. And I would go as far as to say that even a polygamous totally on the up and up, everyone's in on a relationship should not be the government. They can't, they cannot acknowledge that it's the lack of governmental power that gives you that right in my perspective. when they feel like it's the wielding of government power that ensures those rights. That's not that's not congruent with them. They don't understand how we they don't understand how we came to the same exact inclusion by going just totally two different directions. And that's really that challenges them and they don't have the philosophical boundary bounding to figure out how that might be.

Right, and that's to me is liberty, right? And they look at it. I don't want to say they, but a lot of people, a lot of progressives are regressive, and anyone will look at them. We'll look at it and be like, well, the government has to ensure these things because these are not natural. These are not natural, right? So these are not, you know, things that can be ensured. And I'm like, but in the natural society in the natural sense, we have to have consistent rights. I can't in good faith, say like, I have the right to wield a gun because the government can't tell me that even though it's in stride in the bill of rights, but then say like, oh, the government can get involved in your bedroom, the government can tap your phones. Oh, the government, I'm like, no, it's either all or nothing. And if that's not, if that's a philosophy that's too hard for people to wrap their minds around, then I don't know what to say about that, but to me it's pretty clear and pretty lucid. The way I feel my principles are rooted in that philosophy.

It's an aberration and that's what people have to be really scared of and that's that goes to the point. It's like I don't want to give anything an inch because I am afraid of the of the consequences of giving anyone an inch. That's why I wouldn't apologize for the joke. That's why I resigned from my company instead of apologizing for the joke. How could you apologize for that? Oh, great because it's so stupid. First of all, it's a honey mooners. Mary would children all in the family level joke. Something you'd see on the floor of a CBS writer's room. And, and, but the point is that I could have probably apologizing for all of them, but I'm like, no, because A, I'm not sorry, so that would be a huge lie. B, like, I have to now really recalibrate the way I go about my business with, you know, with my partners and with the audience, because You know, I didn't have the protections that I thought I would have when the mistake was made. You know what I mean? Like I didn't, and that was what hurt me. So I tried to do what I thought was the most principled and character driven choice, which would be like, this is best for my partners who don't agree with me. This is best for the audience who might not agree with me. It seems like a lot of them do. And this is the best for just everyone moving forward. I'll have other opportunities and other things that I can do.

Yes. And the thing that the, you know, it's sad to see because it's not in my, I feel like I'm a pretty good nature person and I don't like seeing the rubber band effect going on when people now are suffering because they stood up and stood out or whatever. It's just that, and I don't care about the people that were out to character assassinate me. I'm talking about like, you know, my business partners and stuff. It's just that like no matter what I say will be twisted. I tried to be very magnanimous and like very kind about it when I was on Rubin the second time and people twisted everything that just be a problem anyway. So I'll just remain silent because I'd rather than misconstrued the silence than misconstrued the words, you know?

I'm not worried about three precautions for me. I'm worried about foisting repercussions on other people that have no control over what I'm saying anyway.

That was the disappointing part of it was, again, it goes back to this point of like, ignored everything like my body of work to things. I actually stood up very loudly for political and social causes many times. There are huge videos I have of things, my feelings on the Confederate flag or like how I feel like what do you think about the Confederate flag? I think that you have the right to fly, I just think it's in terrible taste. And I understand why people are upset about it. And I don't think it should be. And I don't think the flag of a traitorous country should be an instituted in state flags in the United States.

Yeah. I honestly wouldn't be.

Well, like to me, it's it's like I'm not talking about the legality of it because if you want to fly a swastik out your house, you're allowed to I think you should probably be allowed to do that. I don't think you're an absolute idiot for doing that, but that's your right to be an idiot. Right. Look, a feathered flag thing was just a sign for me because it was it was this this this juxtaposition of saying like, well, We're talking about the legal rights, but actually I'm talking about the taste. People don't remember what the CSA was. I don't think a lot of people even fly that flag and know what the hell they're flying. This country seceded from the United States. They were traders.

Or they're huge Leonard Skinner fans. They're huge. They're big and Mississippi. Like, you know, but to me, I'm like, we have to have, let's, let's put this in history. Let's think about what we're doing here. This country left to protect its slaves. It's, it's right to own slaves. Any other interpretation of it is wrong based on on what was going on in the 1850s and we're leading up the 1860. These states right to advocate. That's not what it was about economics. Yeah, it's not what it was about. It wasn't about states rights. It wasn't about any of those things. It was about your economy with a fallen apart without free labor. And these people left. They caused a gratuitously bloody war. And then they were let, you know, both Abraham Lincoln and then Andrew Johnson just let them back in. You know, Jefferson Davis, who was the president of the Confederacy, wasn't murdered. He wasn't executed. You know, like they were all let back in. For some reason, because reconstruction went the way it did into the Ulyssesic grant kind of era of presidency. People look at it and be like, well, things kind of ended good and they're kind of like brothers again. And I'm like, that's not really the way it was. Jim Crow came up and said, like, that this fucking flag means something nefarious. And you can't, so it's your right to fly it. And if you feel like that's a Southern Pride thing, more power to, I love the South. I think the South's awesome.

But yeah, you need to know what this flag means to people. You guys left. You guys killed hundreds of thousands of people doing it. And you just fly this flag. It's like the South will rise again. No, won't.

It's great. It's great. I mean, I took the idea from saving private Ryan, the guy that would take dirt from all the battlefields that they would go to and put it in jars. They only showed it once in the movie, but I used to go to all these battlefields when I was a kid because I was fascinated by my parents would bring me. I would go buy baby food and dump them out and then go to all the battlefields and put dirt in each other and put them on. That's heavy. Yeah, I like, yes. You did this when you were a kid? Yeah, like my teens in early 20s. So you've always been into this. Yes, since I was, you know, my earliest memory is of being in the politics in history was the Gulf War, which was, you know, like kind of lead up to it with Kuwait stuff in 1991. So I was like six or seven. I remember, you know, News Day is Long Island's newspaper. I remember just seeing images and kind of maps. And I didn't really understand what was going on. I couldn't even read most of the words. I mean, it's complicated geopolitical stuff. They're talking about, but I ever since that point, I was very politically focused. And my dad is a staunch, like rock, a fellow Republican, like a paleocon, like a moderate Republican. and the old North, you know, people out there might know, but like Republicans are pretty disparate group, like Republicans in New England or Republicans in New York are very different than Republicans in Texas, but they're both Republicans. And my dad grew up just in, you know, giving me things to read and feeding that fire and buying me maps and buying me books. And we were listening to talk radio and we would debate things and we would kind of come to these conclusions of different things. And we'd disagree with about a lot of things. Still to this day, but he's a great man. Ever since then, I was really, really interested in it. I knew when I was fourth or fifth grade that I would study history. And I remember in New York, we have this thing called the Regents in high school, which are like these tests, these state run tests that you have to pass to graduate. So like you take your class, but then you have to take your final, but then you have to take a region. So you can say, which is the state run thing. Say, like you know math, you know whatever. And I remember when I was in sixth grade, my sister Ali, who's six years older than me, was taking the US history Regents, like the next few days from then. And I helped her study. And like helped, I remember like she didn't know anything she needed to know. I taught her like what she needed to know just for this very rudimentary test. And that was a stuck in my mind because I have a real passion for this. I really like it. I enjoy it. I don't know everything. I make mistakes sometimes and I change the way I feel sometimes. It's always been a real fascinating problem.

Kind of funny was the four of us that founded the company were all at IGN in different respects. And we spun off to just start our own YouTube channel about games and nerd culture and stuff like that, do podcasts. And we found some good success, almost crowdfunded on Patreon. And it was a lot of fun. And I enjoyed it, but I felt like I needed to leave because I felt like that was the best for everybody.

It's a bad joke.

That means a lot coming from you. I look at it. That's like stupid reaction to it. It was so fucking stupid. It was stupid and I felt like, you know, I wish that, you know, I wish that things went differently. I wish that, you know, we had a lot of fights behind the scenes. I won't get in all of that. I don't think I honestly think it's good. I think it's good too. I don't, you know, I, I felt like I did what was right for them and I felt like we would have just come to this in-pass again. So I was like, let's just pull the band out and get this over with.

Yeah, I started a new YouTube channel that the first video about April 3rd is called Collins Last Stand. And it's already funded on Patreon $38,000 a month. Yeah. Well, it's people are quitting that expression. I do. Yeah. Okay. I think it's powerful. Like there are things worth dying for there. Things worth risking there. There it is. So I reach $39,000 a month. And it's going to fall 39,000 a month. People, it's going to fall. I'm sure it's going to fall. People, this is shit. People are talking. people are trying to minimize this holy shit that's a lot of fucking money thirty nine grand a month yeah you're gonna get thirty nine thousand a month and you haven't even started yet yeah technically but but this is it's got a fall back down to the teens probably so that was my relax with your humility well take it down if you scroll here you'll see on the left side underneath the number my only stretch goal was to reach ten thousand dollars so my my my my expectations were blown out of the water right i really what i read into this show is is is You know, people are just sick of this bullshit. This is them. This is them speaking and being like, we need a conduit that's going to get into the history and get into the philosophy and the politics, but also that will stand up and say, like, I'm not sorry for a joke. People have the right to make mistakes. People have the right to express themselves. It goes back to the Confederate flag thing. I might disagree with a person that flies at flag, but I'm not going to go wrap up on their door and pull it off and call them a race. So I'm just going to shake my head and walk. You know, because there are other things to worry about. So it's people that like want more liberty focused individual focus kind of things and and that's just people speaking to me, you know, so so the number will fall back down after the month. I'm sure and that's fine.

It's not fake humility out. Actually, I remember I really numbers going to fall.

But but but but my my whole van. It's really not fake humility. It's it's me saying like I hear you and I'll do my very best to do this the numbers keep going up.

You can, but I feel like I want to be honest with people and Oh my god, if you weren't Patreon, you'd freaking kill. Gotta get that cash, son. But yeah, you kind of hide it, but I wanted to be totally transparent. What I keep telling people is as long as we keep a level, a sustainable level of money, which is way less than what I have now, there'll be no baked in ads, no product placements, none of that. And I want people to know. I want people to be involved in it from it's... So... Cosmos last and is about politics. It's going to be, yeah, so I want to do two videos a week between 10 and 15 minutes long each that are scripted and written. And I know how to edit and so I'm not very good at it. The quality of the videos from an optical perspective, you'll find better quality, but I want the content to be really good. And so I want to just do two videos a week. One probably focus on history and one probably focus on politics. So one that's more rooted in philosophy that I'll go research and write. I'm already researching and writing the first one. I don't want to ruin it for anyone yet. Yeah, I think it's gonna be really fun. And then the second, you know, maybe the second video every week will be something about what's happening in the world. And I'll talk to a camera and just be like, this is the way I feel about this. This is maybe why I feel this way. And just, and just some stuff out there, you know, I wanna treat people's time with care. I don't have the brand you have. I don't have, you know, people that are, that are religious about listening to everything I do. So I want people to like look forward to saying like, oh, twice a week, call on my put up a 10 minute video that I can just, when I'm making dinner, just listen to it in the background and then go about my day and maybe learn something or maybe feel a certain way or maybe I disagree. and then move on and have something just be a part of people's lives and that was clearly you put a lot of thought into this and you thought this through uh, you obviously something you're really planning out well yeah I'm trying I mean like that was that you know I was actually the when the number kept rising I was horrified like at first because I was like I have been a video like, I hate money. Of course, I love money. It's like the imposter syndrome where you never really know that you're earning it or whatever and I'm like, I don't want to let anyone down. I only have right now the intro video, which is just me talking to the camera kind of with what my plan is. I'm trying to really keep people engaged and putting up the videos on and letting them know where everything is. But yeah, it was hard because I'm like, you know, I only have the bandwidth to do two videos a week, whether I'm making $15,000 a month or $40,000 a month. And so if it's, so I put out a video to everyone being like, if this level's sustained or even a level, that's in the 20s or 30s, whatever it is. I have to recalibrate what I'm thinking, you know, maybe I do hire someone to help me shoot.

Because I don't want people like, oh, can we get a podcast? Can we do more videos a week and stuff? And I'm like, that's not the vision for the product. I only have enough bandwidth in my mind to write. And it doesn't create time and space, right? The money gives me means in the future to maybe make the product more dynamic or interesting or higher people and do more. But right now I just want to spend a few months to like be like this is what I'm planning. I want to write these things. I want to put care into them. I want to give you citations. I want to like have you give you further things to read and all those kinds of things and that takes time.

It was taught as fast. I'm a fast dog. That's a New York thing. But I'm a... I used to live in New York. You didn't know a lot of people that talked there. They do. They do, but you're like fucking ramped up. It's because it's something I'm passionate about. Yeah. You know, it's, uh, I don't mean to come off as annoying or anything.

Uh, it's impressive. Thank you. I just try to... These are the things that I forgot for so long in a way, because I was writing about games, which I love. I love games. I think they're important. They're an important piece of escape. They're an important piece of art. I think that's all great. But being able to engage with someone like yourself, with someone like Dave Rubin or someone like a Stephen Crowder, whoever it might be, I was on Glenn Beck's radio show last week. It brings out an energy in me. I don't know. I was on the phone, so I have no idea. it brings out an energy me where I'm like I can finally engage with people that know what the fuck they're talking about in this particular realm which I think is so exciting and so interesting and we can have you know we had it we debated we don't agree on everything I think it's awesome yeah so that's a really cool that you found a very big positive out of this now you can express yourself more honestly and you can you can gravitate towards your real interests And yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to use this as an opportunity for myself and trying to use it as an opportunity to just carve out a little slice of the internet however big or small might be where we can affect some positive change and like an idea ideas and learning and free expression and free thought. and making mistakes and disagreeing and all that. I think that's all great. I want to use this as an example. I want to get away from the orthodoxy of the gaming industry.

Well, I think it's portrayed. It's like it all that's funneled to the media. That is that is hyper liberal, right? So it's similar in a way to what's going on with the media and news and politics. These, you know, underneath the surface of the gaming industry, there are plenty of conservatives in libertarians. They hide? Yeah, they do. A lot of them. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was going to say a lot of them talked to me. I mean, I know people that are like heads of studios that feel the way I do. I know people that are in the trenches at QA and doing like very meanial things at gaming studios. I feel the way I do everything between. I remember a GDC game developer conference in San Francisco, which happens every spring. Six or seven years ago, a guy pulled me aside. This is the first time it ever happened to me, and this is when I was kind of starting to make a name for myself. And he pulled me aside and he was like, hey man, I work at X Y and Z, and I'm working on a big game. And he's like, keep doing what you're doing. There are a lot of people out there that agree with what you're saying. But they don't dare speak out because they'll get lambasted in some way. Look what happened to me over something so innocuous.

Well, so every time I would write a politically driven op-ed, for instance, when I was at IGN, I was senior editor, but I kind of had like editor-a-large qualities where it meaning for people that don't know editor-a-large basically. In a way, do whatever they want. Like they'll find something to write about. I used to go away for days at a time and do research things and then write these big 50,000 word articles. 50,000 words.

Well, I did. I carved it out. But what about people reading it? It was in five parts. The history of Naughty Dog was like my opus. Naughty Dog is this very huge, actually in Santa Monica, a very huge game developer, very talented game developer. I went and talked to 19 people, got a bunch of primary sources. and all these things in a wrote this piece that I really cared about. And so, but when I would write things like the political correctness piece about, let me give you an example. There's a game that was canceled, maybe five years ago or so. It was pretty late in development, so it's weird to cancel a game when they've already spent a bunch of money on it. It was called Six Days in Follusion. And it was a game about, it was a third person shooter, I think, about the experience of Felusion, Iraq, and a terrible conflict that happened there. And people, even on the right, we're getting upset about it being like, it's too soon. This is still ongoing. How can you do, and I wrote a piece being like, what are you all saying? This is awesome. This is so great that someone wants to tell a story like this and do something like this. And you just get it from all sides. People will be like, you know, it's not sensitive. It's all these kinds of things. And then the girlfriend mode thing I wrote about where people are like, oh, you're a sexist and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm actually just protecting the sanctity of a man who might have made a mistake. That's it. You know, instead of destroying him, it goes back to this whole thing of like the, I'm sorry the girlfriend mode the borderlands story told you what they got and they got they were all going after him and going after his job and all these things and I wrote a piece being like hey Yeah, like if this is a far skies like he made him a steak Maybe and I don't know that he's just a soft target.

Well, you lose like social cachet when every time something like this would happen, right? So that's why I say like this was the moment the joke was the moment that they were looking to pounds really. And I'm not saying that they were calculating everyone's waiting, but they saw an opportunity and they took it. Because over time, you lose respect over people because your political stance is completely reasonable political stance, as I think.

I don't even really know what the all right means, but like what is all right? Like what? To me, it seems like the far fringes like the Richard Spencer is of the world and neo-Nazi is in the white supremacist and the any actual Nationalists, you know.

Like what is it? I mean, I don't I don't know the I don't hear it. I don't I hope not. based on their characterization of it. But to me, I'm sorry, go ahead.

You can see these, you know, message boards, for instance, a lot of people were very supportive on Reddit, and all of these kind of places that are a little more known for free thought, but there's this one video game, message board in particular, that is just insane. And there was 125 page or so, it's the red about me, 20 posts, or I think it might be 50 posts of page. And I was reading it and I heard some of it that because people are like first while people were telling me I said things I never said like I did things people Collins that you know against you know his name is no taxation as you can believe that taxes should exist He I often talk about how I really like Iron Rand and I really like Atlas shrug But I don't consider myself an objective this I don't believe that selfishness is necessarily a virtue I just think she's interesting and I think some of her ideas are interesting You know God forbid I exist somewhere in the gray area right and but they're like pounds and objectives and he's selfish and blah blah blah and like oh pounds of Nazi and he he's of racist he's a saw I think the term a lot of news was soft racist or soft big it soft race being like that he he doesn't he doesn't intentionally or actually overtly saying anything but supports causes that are racist or sex these are the kind of character assassinations that we're going on basically people with on on on on on on on bulletin boards with with with yarn and maps like that's the way how I picture them like trying to make continuous connections and and and it's like these things aren't even things I feel and and things that I said or being taken out of context I often use the In video games, one of the big things is like, you know, there's a need for diverse casts, diverse protagonists and stuff like that. And I often use the case that I used to use the saying, I don't believe in diversity for diversity's sake. I believe that an artist should tell his story. So if an artist, a writer and a game wants to have an all-white cast, and that's what he thinks serves his story. I don't think that makes him a racist. If he wants to have an all Asian cast, I don't think that makes him a racist either. I think that's what he wants to do. And people took that out of context and were calling me a racist and a bigot and all of these kinds of things. And it's it's it's hurtful because there's no one there that no one's defending me. You know, I can't I can't defend myself because I'll just make it worse. So it was a kind of like this hapless kind of situation that I found myself in and I tried to make the best of it.

Yeah, serve the story, right? And I could give you a little glimpse to give you some context with what might be going on in gaming. There was this very popular game series called The Witcher, which is made by a Polish developer called CD Projekt. They're in Warsaw. And it's based on the fusion of like Polish kind of identity with this famous book series that's based on like kind of Polish war, you know, like kind of the Lord of the Rings, but in Eastern Europe. And one guy's cartoon character that works at this website called polygon in his review was talking about how there were no there was no diversity there and and and everyone's like Dude, it's Poland and it's based on Poland of your like and it's about dragons and like goblins and there's some white guys and this is like what you're upset about you know and there's another guy making and I think he's Slovakia and I don't want to somewhere in Eastern Europe making a game called kingdom come deliverance And it's supposed to be a very realistic look at something like the 14th or 15th century in that area. And again, they're complaining, there's no diversity. There's no diversity. And he's like, there was no black people in this area in 1500. I'm trying to make a game that's true to the area. Does that doesn't make him a racist? And, and these are the kinds of, this is just a kind of bullshit. But you see this in movies, you see this in TV shows. It's not exclusive to gaming, but it's, but it's what I've had to deal with for a long time.

I think I mean, I don't the thankfully the people that make the games don't care. They're like we're gonna make our game. The people that are complaining about it, they're virtuous. Virtue signaling, which is not even a term I even knew what it meant until a few weeks ago. Like I heard people throw that term around. I didn't quite know what a man I looked at and looked into it. It's, you know, you know what it is. It's the idea that they, you know, these virtuous people, it's the same people that attacked me for the joke. I have to be virtuous and show that I am against sexism. So I have to attack the man. You know, I have to do all these kinds of things and this need, you know, but what they're saying when they, when they're saying, we have to have, um, black people in this game in Eastern Europe in the 1500s. What they're saying, what they're really saying is, you're a racist. Yeah, that's the that's the subtext and it goes back to this character assassination in this need to destroy I often use the example of you do you remember one gawker wrote about the conde nasts CFO and out of them? No, I don't know what that story is so what says story it's it's so on gawker this guy wrote this story about the CFO of Conday Nast. What is that? Conday Nast is like this big conglomerate that owns a bunch of like, you know, smaller businesses. They're pretty big company. I don't know. I think they might even be in publishing and stuff like that. And so they wrote this story and the entire crux of the story. This guy that no one, this guy I think is brother or brother-in-law with Timothy Geiter. So that's his claim to fame, I guess. But he's just the private citizen that works as the CFO of this big corporation. They write this piece that, out some as a game, man, that he's having or trying to have it a fair behind his wife's back with this guy. All of this stuff, just, and I'm like, I read this piece and I'm like, what is the purpose of this? Why? And I'm sure Jamie, if you want it, you can probably find it. Why did they write it? Um, clicks, you know, and it actually blew up in their faces. People were fucking furious about this because this wasn't, yeah, so there's the, uh, the thing. It's like, they just out this guy for no reason destroyed his life.

I'm telling you, you can go jump down the rabbit hole this read about this guy. This is such an example of outreach culture. I've just character assassination for now.

So yes, he is married and has three children allegedly arranged a night with a male escort on a recent trip to Chicago. When the escort found out who the CFO was, he asked for help with an ongoing housing dispute. In other words, trying to kick into the government because of his connection with Gainer. The CFO allegedly got spooked and canceled their meeting, though he paid in full for whatever rendezvous they were going to have. And retaliation, the escort went to Gawker, which published the story despite knowing that doing so would play into the extortion attempts. The site also published screenshots of the pair's alleged text messages exchange, including several photos. They shook this guy down and ruined him. He's going to have problems with his wife probably got divorced. Now his kids are going to be in limbo. He's going to lose his job and he's got to follow him around forever. Why? Right. Because he tried to, you know, it's not our business if he's cheating on his wife and it's not our business if he's gay and it's not our business if he's trying to have him be with a male escort. They still saw clickbait. Yep. And this is, and this is what it's all about. It's to say I would even go further with Gawker, which obviously ended up taking him down with Hulk Hogan. It's like why? Because he's a famous person, his sex tape, which is going to ruin his friendship ruin his marriage ruin all these connections. What, what kind of pleasure do you get out of that? That goes back to the point I was shooting making about how I wouldn't write stories about a couple of people back in the day because I didn't want to ruin them. That's not what I'm out to do. And I feel like that so it all plays into the same culture, the same culture of character assassination, neo-Puritanism, witch hunting.

I look at it a little differently in the sense that because I think you're right, I think you're on to something there. But I think it's also the momentality that exposes the fact that say I was ruined forever right and they won whatever that means and then people go like hey you just ruined that guy why did you do that and they can be like oh he did it oh he did it and other words no one's responsible for it and when you're when you're in this mob it's like it's just it's old fashioned witch hunting you know and it's done for strangely puritanical reasons that's it

I think that that's, I think it was probably a huge element of it. I find it strange because I went about my business in a different way for the same reason if that makes any sense. So it's like, I don't want to, you're making your argument which I think is true that it's like, don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. Like, there's all of this stuff over there. And my whole thing was like, I don't want to I get that.

Yeah, and that's the whole end, and it causes this, this rigorous kind of atmosphere where we can see it in politics too, where Everyone's mad about everything like Donald Trump reads everyone's mad Donald Trump read the day The picture that's going around on CNN and words like it was literally like the Donald Trump afraid of stairs was like the Cairon the lower third and it's like and it's like stairs and it's like first elevators Yeah, he prefers gilded elevators But they're they're serious Yeah, this is the kind of stuff that's going on and so when you see STA I R or S Oh, no stars like that you walk up and down. Yeah and AIRs because it could be like the easy way. But to me, I'm like, you know, and that's why it goes back, you know, the fact is, and I think this is an important component to maybe making you understand what happened a little bit better because you're not in that ecosystem, but I think you can relate because you're seeing it happen elsewhere, is that the gaming media is dying. And they're dying because no one really trusts or cares. Trust them or cares what they have to say anymore. People, 10 year olds and 15 year olds today are not growing up being like, I wonder what Polygon has to say about the newest game. They go to YouTube and find a guy there that they trust and believe, which is why the only people unanimously pretty much that came out in my defense were YouTubers. because they know that they're the next wrong of this evolution of the way we absorb and communicate and absorb information and have news. Meanwhile, these people, to your point, are writing clickbait, trying to stay relevant, but no one really cares what they're saying anyway. So they're in their death throws. This is a way for them to take shots and multiple people at the same time. This is what they did. A Pewdiepie, this is what they did to other people. And Pewdiepie, one was really egregious. It was egregious, but again, a lot of that stuff was taken out of context. And a lot of it.

Oh yeah, I mean, he attacks on him. Oh yeah, it was terrible. Well, while Street Journal did to him, this is just the sign of the times. These are people fighting, and I really feel this way, and you might disagree, but I feel like a lot of it is, these people are fighting for their lives. If I were a person, I was trying to... The journalist. The journalist, yeah. Like, if I were, I'm sorry to interrupt you. If I were, right, if I had written in the video game industry for 10 years, right, I wrote them of gaming industry for 14 years. But if I was a 10 year industry veteran, And I had fewer than 10,000 Twitter followers and I'm writing for a site no one reads and I'm trying my hardest to stay relevant and to do my thing. I'd be pretty mad too. If I saw a guy that turns on his camera and speaks whatever he wants and gets the amount of views in 30 minutes that I'll get the entire year.

But what does it has a lot to do with you because there's only so much time and space for these people to absorb things.

Sure, but I'm just saying, they're thought process sucks. Yeah, and ostensibly it's it's actually adding to their destruction because people are looking at this like the media for instance in political and the political landscape is dying anyway the decline is happening Wall Street Journal put up a piece not too long ago saying that per capita Viewership on television is actually starting to be outpaste by YouTube So that's over now, right? So like now, and that's not on video online or video on demand, that's just YouTube. And so people are looking at the situation and actually precipitating it happening quicker, because in order to stay relevant, they lie, or they raise your pieces.

Do you want me to explain it to you? Yeah, please. Okay. So PewDiePie is the biggest YouTuber in the world. He has 55 million subscribers and he's a millionaire. Just to be clear, I've never, I don't really know him very well. I think I've had one or two communicates with him at some point, but I don't know him, so I don't really have horse in the race. He lives in Europe, he lives in England, I think he's Swedish, or something of that nature, but he lives in England. And he has a massive YouTube following me, and every video he does will have 10, 12, 15 million views. And you know you're on YouTube, I'm on YouTube, and a much lesser sense, that's a lot of views. And he pushed the boundaries in some ways, in some tasteless ways. as this is right. And the thing that really caught on was that he was using this at or this this service called fiber which is this kind of task rabbit kind of thing where it's like you can pay people to do whatever you want. And he paid some of the things he did were otherwise but he paid these guys in some country to hold up these. like death to all Jews, signs or something like that, it's part of a joke. And something I think is somewhat tasteless. But he's trying to make a point. Whatever point he was trying to make, he was trying to make a point. It was lost on a lot of people. And this combined with some other imagery, he had been using some kind of fascist or Nazi imagery and some other things that had been going on over the months. I'm sorry. Did you want to? Oh, I thought you were going to say something, I'm sorry. And so eventually the Wall Street Journal caught wind of this. Wall Street Journal obviously of a prolific right of center, but still pretty moderate newspaper. And basically, we went after him and tried to just basically try to destroy him and took a lot of things out of context and forced Disney's Disney owns a studio that Funds him and all these kinds of things and caused a lot of personal and economic destruction for this.

Right. It was a completely dishonest hit piece. And the same vein as the connen asked it. Right. Is the same vein as the whole Coganhead. Is the same. Right. It's these people, they, you know, that turn punching up. They want to punch up and they think they're punching up. Wall Street Journal is punching up now on YouTubers. But really caused a lot of hilarious.

Isn't that hilarious? It is.

Exactly. And to me, it was like, it showed a lot of cowardice. It showed a lot of half cocked thinking on there on the Wall Street Journal's part to think that this was going to blow back on them. And it showed a level, and I hate using this word because I don't think innately it's necessarily a bad thing because I think it drives you forward, but there's a level of jealousy. at play with a lot of these kinds of things happening.

He makes 15 million a year and they're met and they don't understand it and I get that. You know, I look at some people that are famous or some people that are, you know, have a platform and I'm like, I don't get this, but I'm not gonna like sit here and like, right on their parade. That's their right. They have an audience. That's totally fine. Maybe look at yourself and why you don't have an audience. Maybe look at yourself and realize that if you've been doing this for so long and you're so proud of that, why isn't anyone listening to you? Could it be you? You know, instead of looking around for people to assassinate, which is what's basically happening here, I find it so distasteful, I find it so destructive, where at the precipice of a very dangerous time, because the trust and institutions no matter where you are now is just lost. And a lot of it has to do, and that's why I was saying with media precipitating the fall by not telling the truth, by not doing the right thing. I think the media in terms of politics, for instance, is really rebounding from the fact that they thought Clinton was going to win, so they thought they can get away with saying and doing anything for that means to an end. The Donna Brazilving, for instance, where she was feeding questions to the Clinton campaign, is so incredible. It shows such a level of bias and systemic inherent bias. They thought they were going to get away with all of it. Now no one trusts anyone. So when I see all this stuff, I don't know what's going on with Russia and Trump. For all I know, he could be a fucking mentoring candidate. You know, but I don't believe a word they say. You know, like when I read this about Paul Manafort about playing about blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I don't know. You lied about all this other shit. I have no idea what you're talking about. You know, I have to really do my own research. I don't even know who to trust anymore. They did that to themselves and they precipitated their own downfall. More and more people are going on YouTube to listen to people like you, to listen to people even like Alex Jones to listen to Dave Ruben to listen to. It is a problem because usually if you listen to me, well, it's a problem because you need people in the trenches that you trust. You need someone in the press room at the White House. You need someone in the AP that is on the wire that is telling you the truth. But when you can't even trust them anymore, that's a big problem. That's when people go seek out alternative sources of news and information and entertainment and that's what's happening and that's why they're dying.

Absolutely.

It's so transparent too when I see that kind of stuff. I'm like, it was a very attractive woman. I'm sure she knows what she's talking about. But I know why I know why she sits at the end of the table.

Yeah, she's smart. Yeah, that's what makes her sexy. Yeah, I'm talking about. But, you know, yeah, so we're in this, we're in this weird space.

Yeah, I think you're right in the sense that the internet specifically had taken off so quickly. The worldwide web is only 24 years old. The internet's way older. But the way we communicate with each other now is so different than even use net in the 80s or these kind of university university communications that they had going on in the 70s where they were sharing things with amongst each other. You don't need gatekeepers anymore. There are no gatekeepers. You can go start a YouTube channel now, find an audience, gain 1,000 subscribers, make a lot of money, and say what you want. and that's scary to the traditional gatekeepers and they don't like it and they're fighting against it is so transparent and it's so self-serving when I don't we need a media that we can trust but I don't think we need the media as it is right now either because the media we have right now is bloated dishonest partisan politically and and motivated all these things that don't really serve a purpose to educating and informing someone the days of cronkite are gone

Yeah, that's the idea. It's like just in my own way. I don't have the illusions of cranger that I'm going to make millions of dollars and have this huge reach.

I just, I'm just trying to say that I didn't have, I left my, you know, I was making good money. I own, you know, kind of funny. I, I walked away expecting that I was going to take a pay cut to do what I really wanted to do and try to do the right thing. And it's great that people are responding the way they do. I hope they continue to respond this way because it'll allow us to do more of it.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate you.

Thank you.

That was great. Thank you. That was a lot of fun.